Talk:Ray Bradley (artist)

Talk (moved from user talk page)
I have been informed that apparently we need to talk. 1 - What makes you think I have a relationship with the artist? I do not, other than I came to know of the artist and his work through college. 2 - Why do you think the artist did not live in Notting Hill or know the artists mention in the article? Two of them mentioned had links to photographs of them together in the 1960s. The artist and David Hockney were in college together - they attended the same art school at the same time - look at their date of births. 3 -Do you seriously require a citation for National Diploma in Stained glass? 4 - You require a citation regarding school? - Also I see there is a group of you in this? All naturally know each other and naturally agreeing with each other? Oliver Reed I agree somewhat superfluous but not untrue - look at Oliver Reed's wiki page - he is the same age as Ray Bradley and attended the same school. I don't know - only you get to decide that goes in?


 * , since you're effectively edit warring to add content that requires WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS of sources, I don't see that discussion is likely to help. When an editor is this strongly determined to add content, whether or not it's adequately sourced, it usually speaks to a conflict, or at least an agenda that overrides working with others, let alone following basic guidelines. It also is of some concern that you haven't responded re: your association with, nor have they shown transparency. As for the above questions: The onus is not on me, and it doesn't matter where I think the artist lived; if you publish personal biographical content, you must support it with WP:RELIABLE sources. That includes what subjects he preferred or excelled in while in grade school, which, if you can't provide sources, begs the question of how you know these things. I've already noted in edit summaries that it doesn't matter who studied or lived near him. The article is about the artist, not adjacent notables. Offering photos of people together, without any published content that explains their relationship, is meaningless. A citation is needed not solely for the stained glass diploma, but for the entire sentence, He completed a four-year art and design course, where he gained an Intermediate Diploma in 1955, followed by the National Diploma in Design within the specialist area of stained glass in 1957. Again, if you can't supply a source, where have you obtained the information? Yes, citations are needed for any and all content regarding schooling, as they are for any aspect of a WP:BLP.


 * I don't decide what goes in, nor am I part of some cabal designed to thwart you. I do strongly suggest working within encyclopedic guidelines. Find published WP:RELIABLE sources. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:0:0:0:3AA4 (talk) 21:50, 10 July 2022 (UTC)


 * I am not edit warring. I have written articles before and I have looked today at other artist's pages - I'm sorry but it is not the case that every person mentioned and every qualification has a citation. National Diploma - where would you suggest I get a citation considering there is no database for people that have obtained a National Diploma? I can include a link to the artist's webpage where he mentions it if that satisfies? Ditto Art college at that period - there's no page with a list of all people who attended and qualified. Look at other artists from that generation - citations for Diplomas etc id they exist at all are via interviews or articles where it is mentioned.
 * Re TisTis I have responded to one of the other editors you seem to know. They were helping with the images re copyright and found wiki fascinating but obscure so I suggested they try it out - a mistake perhaps I see now.
 * I read a blurb or pamphlet if you like in college on Ray Bradley but nothing I can reference or provide a citation for. Not everything is online particularly regarding pre-internet artists. What you seem to be suggesting is only very famous celebrity artists deserve credit - not the fact that they have been quietly working away for, what, 60 odd years. He's a stained glass artist - know within his field. It's not a celebrity field.
 * Re photos of the artist with other artists doing artistic things, referenced from one of the other artist's own web page, is insufficient to establish a connection? That baffles me. (previous by


 * Yes, it is edit warring when content that has been deleted by several editors for valid reasons is continuously restored. It doesn't matter what you've seen at other articles, per WP:OTHERTHINGS. Those articles probably require clean up, as well. Again, you're looking to rationalize ways of including content without reliable sources. And without answering how you obtained said content.


 * I don't "seem to know" the other editor you've referred to any better than I know you. But your contention that is a different editor can be checked.


 * Blurb or pamphlet? Who published it? Why can't it be used as a source? It's unclear what this is. I'm not suggesting anything re: "celebrity." I'm referring to the encyclopedia's guidelines.


 * Pamphlet per dictionary: "a small booklet or leaflet containing information or arguments about a single subject. " Sort of thing they use in college, say an A4 page with information about something or someone. So it wouldn't be "published" nor necessarily online. TisTRU (talk) 06:00, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The photo business need not baffle. WP:SYNTHESIS and WP:OR have been explained. If you're going to write about whom the subject knew, you'll need WP:RELIABLE published sources to support it. These are not arbitrary guidelines I designed. They're basic tenets of Wikipedia, which you're seeking to find ways around. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:0:0:0:3AA4 (talk) 12:03, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Note has been blocked from editing this article for undisclosed WP:COI and using multiple accounts. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:0:0:0:3AA4 (talk) 16:41, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Help with false accusations and blocking
Can anyone help re being accused of having multiple accounts which I don't - no idea why I would have multiple accounts nor what I would achieve with multiple accounts that I couldn't with my account. Nor do I have any idea why they regard my contributions as being so contrary to wiki guidance. They suggest things like a citation for a National Diploma when there is no database for a National Diploma. Not everything can be cited with a link online. There are books I have included in references or further reading which would mention the artists qualifications. etc etc. TisTRU (talk) 05:50, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

<!-- This was deleted : ==Further reading== TisTRU (talk) 06:07, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Can someone explain to me why a reference and a link to another artist's own web page with images of the two artists together doing artistic things is insufficient to establish a connection and to be included? The following: amongst a small artist community that included Pauline Boty and Geoff Reeves. TisTRU (talk) 05:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Also the same editors who are constantly deleting for lack or citations deleted the further reading entry?
 * New Glass Review, Issue 4, 1983, Corning Museum of Glass
 * Modern Stained Glass in British Churches, Mark Angus, Mowbray, 1984, p. 33-35
 * Architectural Stained Glass, Brian Clarke, Architectural Record Books, 1979, p. 176, p. 185-187
 * Glass, Volume 46, FMJ International Publications, 1969, p. 160
 * Architectural Record, Volume 170, McGraw-Hill Education Australia, 1982, p. 88
 * Leaded Glass, A Handbook of Techniques, By Alastair Duncan, Watson-Guptill Publications, 1975, p. 180-82
 * Glass for a Beautiful Home, By Matthew Lloyd, Janet Blackmore, Merehurst Press, 1988, p. 154
 * Interior Designers Handbook, Grosvenor Press, 1987
 * Glass Art Magazine, Volume 4, 1976, p. 8
 * RIBA Journal, Volume 108, 2001, p. 21
 * A guide to stained glass in Britain, By Painton Cowen, 1985, p. 280
 * Journal of Glass Studies, Volume 12, Corning Museum of Glass, 1970, p. 208
 * The Architects' Journal, Volume 170, Issues 36–37, 1979, p. 7
 * Carey, Charles (7 of 9). National Life Stories: Artists' Lives, British Library Sounds
 * Stained Glass of Buckinghamshire Churches, St James the Less, Dorney, by Ray Bradley
 * Walthamstow – Our Lady and St George "The architects also coordinated the commissioning of artworks and stained glass. The artists are as follows:Stained glass: Ray Bradley"
 * St Stephen’s Church, Moulton, Cheshire. Millennium Window: A commentary by Ray Bradley
 * Financial Times, A new perspective, Josh Sims, JANUARY 22 2010
 * Pauline Boty: Pauline Boty with fellow RCA students Brian Newman, Ray Bradley and Gerald Nason,, c.1960. Photo
 * The 100 Best Stained Glass Sites in London, Caroline Swash, Malvern Arts Press Ltd, 2016
 * London: East, By Bridget Cherry, Simon Bradley, Charles O'Brien, Nikolaus Pevsner, Sir Nikolaus Pevsner, Yale University Press, 2016, p.748
 * The Buildings of England: Essex, by James Bettley & Nikolaus Pevsner, Yale University Press, 2007, p.782


 * National Diploma - Ray Bradley's National Diploma is mentioned in a few books and magazines and also on the artist's website. Also I found National Diploma mentioned in this magazine which has an online version, p.130:  . Is this sufficient re citation?


 * Ray Bradley is mentioned a few times in this online thesis on Pauline Boty, eg: "Carey had trained at the RCA and had been taught for a while by Keith New. According to New Carey sent a regular batch of students whom the RCA staff trusted to be technically well prepared and to be already doing 'interesting work'. Ray Bradley, Boty's contemporary at both Wimbledon and the RCA said that to them the RCA was 'not unfamiliar, we felt we were in, we knew...' Interview 4.01.97." - sufficient to include Pauline Boty as artistic friend in the article?
 * "Pictured below is Boty with fellow students from the stained glass department, photographed by Reeve for an article entitled “It’s Magic” in ARK 33 magazine, Autumn 1962." -->