Talk:Ray Charles/Archive 1

Old Peer Review
This person is very influencial and looking for comments on how to make this better and what will be required to get it up to featured article status. --Simonkoldyk 01:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, AZ t 16:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Quite short with stubby paragraphs. There's nothing more can be said on this man? I wouldn't be shocked if this much can be written on him. - Tutmosis  22:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm ditto-ing Tutmosis here. You have the exact opposite problem that the Dresden article has. I really can't do a nice copyediting over your arctice until its the appropriate length. When it is, I'd be honored to check the grammar for an article of such a wonderful man. Evan(Salad dressing is the milk of the infidel!) 22:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the relevance of having a section listing the names of his children - that's very trivial, so get rid of it. Unless you're considering doing a section on family life? LuciferMorgan 03:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Diet Pepsi commercial
The Diet Pepsi commercial put him back in the public eye. Something wrong with that? I never really liked anything after he left Atlantic and the tightest blues band in the land behind and I'm a lifelong Coke drinker, but you can't expect people to stay in a low-paying bag forever. It's called show business, you know. Ortolan88


 * True, and he has a right to do what he wants. I don't think artists should do commercials for large corporations with a history of racial discrimination and selling addictive, teeth-rotting, carcinogenic, sugary and nutrition-free products through misleading ads that promote unhealthy body images and vapid consumerism.  If he wanted to have a career again, he should have tried to make more innovative and pioneering music, not sell soft drinks to an increasingly obese nation. Tokerboy 01:16 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)

If you keep talking like that, your face might freeze in that position, or didn't your mama warn you? Ortolan88


 * Anyway, it's all about money, so principles need not apply.Christopher Mahan

Try living without it. Ortolan88

Ed Bradley Interview
In a 60 Minutes profile, he admitted to Ed Bradley that he would "audition" his female back-up singers.


 * If this is supposed to mean he had sex with his back-up singers it should say that rather than beating around the bush with vague wording. If it is not in fact supposed to mean that, it should be removed as it is misleading. -Branddobbe 05:27, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

Autobiography
There is an autobiography by Ray Charles himself at http://www.raycharles.com/ This might help to extend the early years section a bit, currently the article starts with having lost both parent at the age of 15. At the age of 15 his autobiography is on page 3 of 7, see http://www.raycharles.com/auto3.htm

"I wasn't quite 15 when my mama died. That was the most devastating thing in my whole experience -- bar nothing, period. ... From that moment on, I was completely in another world. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep ...

That episode with Ma Beck [an elderly lady] shook me out of my depression. It really started me on my way. After that I told myself that I must do what my mom would have expected me to do. And so the two greatest tragedies in my life -- losing my brother and then my mom -- were, strangely enough, extraordinarily positive for me. What I've accomplished since then, really, grows out of my coming to terms with those events."

Regards Vittorio Brambilla

I'm not sure how to enter a reference, but Sanyika Shakur, a former LA gang-member clearly identifies Ray Charles as his Godfather in his autobiography, Monster: The Autobiography of an L.A. Gang Member, Atlantic Monthly Pr, 1993 ISBN 0-87113-535-3. Could someone please remove the "citation needed" on this fact. I was dismayed that Mr. Sanyika Shakur has no Wikipedia entry, as although he is a convicted felon, his book is quite informative and he is a spokesman on gender construction within America's black communities.

Thank you, Noah Klein

Famous
I have put him on the List of famous people. --Patricknoddy 20:25, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy --Patricknoddy 20:25, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)User talk:Patricknoddy 16:24 September 15, 2004 (EDT)

Removed sentence
(he was a good person, so stop hating)

he was n good man who was th ecutest man ever and u know it man

"Charles was able to see"
In the section talking about the movie, it is stated that "Charles was able to see the completed film." This needs to be reworded. While I'm sure he attended a showing of it, and heard it, I 100% doubt he saw it. -sYn pHrEAk

Haha.

Which was first?
I found this biography page when I was looking for more info about Ray Charles. It's seems eerily similar. The question I have is who "borrowed" from whom. I didn't see the required wikipedia disclaimer on the webpage, so I'm concerned that either rocksite.info is using wikipedia without attribution.

Was Ray Charles ever banned from performing in Georgia?
I don't know the history of Ray Charles at all. But from my internet research the "Ban in Georgia" seems to be a movie device. All references, I saw, to the ban not talking about the movie "Ray" deny that it ever took place, save for this reference. So I question that "fact".

Charles was never banned in Georgia. The newspaper headlines they show in the movie "Ray" are fake. See this link:. It's a newspaper article from Augusta, the city where Charles cancelled the segregated concert. The cancelation cost Charles about $800, although the movie makes it sound like he made a major sacrifice for the cause of civil rights.

Well - my understanding is that incident occurred in 1961. According to this website - http://kclibrary.nhmccd.edu/decade60.html - the average weekly wage in America during the sixties was $4,743. Then if you look here - http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/Rosenbloom.LaborInst - you'll find that during the sixties the black male wage as a percentage of white male wage was approx 57.5%. So doing the math, the average black male wage at the time Ray payed the fine was $2727. So I think it could very reasonably be argued that an $800 fine, at that time, was a major financial sacrifice for any black man in America. This also totally misses the point in relation to the power structure in the business - ie: white promoters/black entertainers. So a black man making a stand like he did could easily have made Ray a pariah among promoters .. except for the fact that he ended up being so wildly popular that they had to book him that is :)
 * Keep in mind that Ray Charles was near the height of his commercial success in 1961 (he had #1 hit singles in 1960, 1961, and 1962). I don't know what kind of income he had in 1961, but he was most likely making far more than the average wage-earner that year. (By the way, $4,743 was the average annual wage although it's not clear to me whether that reflects the entire decade or just part of it, but that figure presumably includes the wages of workers of both sexes and all races.) --Metropolitan90 06:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Eleanor Rigby
There's no mentioning of his cover performance for the Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby". Might not be his most important achievement, but the Beatles said themselves that he sang it better than they did.
 * The abc RECORDS with dual logo Tangerine Records 45-8023 was released on 27th July 1968. It reached US # 35 and UK #36 the next month. The B-side "The Sun Died" was an adaptation of famous French singer Nicoletta "Il Est Mort Le Soleil" (Riviera/Barclay, 1967) written by Anne Grégory, Pierre Delanoë and Hubert Giraud - adap. by Ray himself. Stephan KŒNIG 16:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

He didn't regain eye sight and lose it again boxing... did he?
The following quote is at the end of the second paragraph in the "Middle Years" section. Is this true? If not, could someone remove it?

Shortly following the release of his album Ray Charles temporarily regained his sight and enjoyed limited success as a small-time "boxer. Ray Charles went blind again after a blow to the temple at the hands of Eddie "Big Guns" Martin (21-4 carrer record) in December of 1959."

the other side of his South Africa Tour
While there is no doubt that Charles' Tour of South Africa in 1981 was indeed controversial, there are a few aspects of the tour that are often overlooked:

- Most Western acts which played in South Africa performed at the Sun City Casino in the former "Homeland" of Bophuthatswana. Ray pointedly did NOT play there, but rather in Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban, and several other cities including Soweto.

- All concerts were integrated, which at the time was against the law. This was especially relevant to the series of concerts in Johannesburg, which were performed at Linder Auditorium, then the exclusive purview of white-only audiences. Additionally, seating was truly open, not integrated in the sense that people of color would "sit upstairs".

- The Ray Charles Orchestra was an integrated collection of black, white and Latino musicians. Again, this was illegal, but Ray had as a given that he would tour with his band.

- The opening act for the tour was a then young-and-rising Johnny Clegg and his band Jaluka, another integrated local band. Their importance in the history of contemporary South African music can be read about on this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juluka

Aretha Franklyn??
"Ray Charles Robinson was born in Albany, Georgia to poor sharecroppers parents, Bailey and Aretha Franklyn". Aretha Franklyn????? This is wrong, isn't it?Tompw 14:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Featured?
The article looks pretty good. Doesn't it qualify as a featured article?


 * It's a good start, but I think it has a long way to go to reach featured article quality. The most obvious problem is the near-complete lack of citations, especially for quotes.  Including a vague list of biographical references at the end of the article is not a proper substitute for proper citations and detail references.  On top of that, it seems awfully short for an article on someone this famous and influental.  I think there's a lot more that could and should go in first. -- Xtifr tälk 05:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed lines
but is probably a result of trachoma. (* Note - there are sources which attribute Ray's blindness to glaucoma. However Ray Charles' symptoms and subsequent blindness are inconsistent with glaucoma. Moreover, childhood glaucoma is a rare condition, while trachoma was &mdash; and still is &mdash; a leading (and preventable) cause of blindness.)

While humanly possible that it was trachoma, that disease is almost non-existent in the United States although a leading cause of blindness world-wide. Congential Glaucoma is much more frequent in the United States. An ophthalmologist could determine this easily, one way or the other. If Mr. Charles declines to make the information public, that is his decision. As a medical question, there is no mystery. PokerpoodlepokerpoodlePokerpoodle


 * Although trachoma was still a problem in the Southeast when Charles was born, I agree that there is no verifiable information about Charles having the disease. Consistent with the diagnosis of congential glaucoma, the biography on his official website states "Charles was not born blind - he lost his sight to undiagnosed glaucoma at age seven."  -AED 00:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Death of Father
I just watched the movie. Ick pooh for historical accuracy. According to the wiki text he was divorced from Bea two years before his appearance in Georgia in 1979.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/charles_r.html

This article states the death of his father was twenty years after the death of his mother, but PBS in the link above states two years.

Ray Charles on Deafness
Ray Charles has said that deafness is the worst thing that anyone could be afflicted with, because people would be unable to hear music... as a blind person this was quite a statement. Can anyone provide the exact quote or a source for this... - Abscissa 04:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Found it. "Musician Ray Charles raised money for people afflicted by this, saying, "To me, it's the worst thing in the world"". "What is Deafness?" is the correct answer. (From Jeopardy! :-) ) - Abscissa 12:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

he is a bling m an dat can play the piano.

Brand
Does anyone know Ray's piano brand of choice? I didn't pass over it in the article. And if I did, I guess I wasn't reading hard enough. Or I am going insane. Or both. :) But just to be sure...anyone? :) TommyBoy76 02:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC) Ray's favorite piano was, of course, the Steinway Concert Grand.

While touring Europe, he would, on occasion, use a Bosendorfer Model 290 (97 keys, extended down to a botton C), and he also used Yamaha Grands in Japan. But Steinway was definitely his weapon of choice.

During the last 15-18 years of his life, he only used an acoustic piano when performing with symphony orchestras (generally around 80-90 pieces) and during private shows, in which he performed with a 40-piece version of the same. The acoustic piano was supplemented by a Yamaha KX-88 (an electric keyboard with weighted keys), and a custom "midi" unit programmed by Kurzweil.

When touring in the summer and fall with The Ray Charles Orchestra and the Raelettes, he only used the Yamaha/Kurzweil unit.


 * On a 1990 apperance on Super Dave (show), he played a Rhodes with a small group (drums, bass guitar, horn section, backup singers.

criticisms ?
Why does he have a section of criticisms? Bob Dylan doesn't have any critisms nor does Joni Mitchell or Bruce Springsteen so why does he ? It seems as if this entry is biased against him. Should they not have critism sections too?

I would also like to second that .. why does Ray have a criticism section and others don't. I think there should be a common template used for all. It seems very biased and unfair to lend weight to, what after all, are only some peoples opinions.


 * Why? Probably because someone sound some controversy/critism that they thought was notable. Though I believe the section should probably contain citations, I don't see anything wrong with it. Why don't other artists have it? Because noone has bothered to add it. Doesn't mean anything with regards to this article.


 * The source of most of the section was an anti-Charles opinion piece originally posted on a radio station's website, later picked up by an alternative newsweekly. Not only is that unreliable, it's also unnotable, being only the opinion of one employee of a college radio station.  The section, barring any reliable sources, should be removed and replaced with a brief mention of his South Africa tour. Calbaer 22:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * i WOULD LIKE TO AGREE WiTH THEM ALSO.. WHY DOES RAY HAVE A CRiTiCiSM SECTION AND OTHERS DONT. SOME PEOPLE MAY SAY BECAUSE THEY HAVENT ADDED iT YET. WELL i BELiEVE iTS ABOUT TiME THEY DiD.


 * I would like to ask why this is controversial, as no real strong support verifying this is given, other than a sentence in the referenced article.  Zchris87v  17:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Later Years?
Does 1965 really qualify as 'later years'? He would have only been 35. That's not even the halfway point of his life. I think it needs to be rearranged. TheHYPO 08:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Birth
Hi guys. I'm from the German Wikipedia. We're discussing, if he wasn't born in Albany, Georga, but in Greensville, Georiga - as he said in "What I say" (autobiography, 1992, by David Ritz & Ray Charles) --84.72.98.175 21:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Georgia on My Mind
"Gladys Knight performed Charles' 'Georgia On My Mind' during the Opening Ceremonies of the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, Georgia."

Georgia on My Mind was actually written by Hoagy Carmichael. Also, Since Gladys Knight is not the only artist other than Ray Charles to record this song, I don't see any reason to focus on Gladys Knight.

Ray Charles on hiatus from 1951 to 1965?
According to this entry, Ray didn't do much of anything between 1951 and 1965, arguably the most important period of his life. How does this article rate a "B" in the Biography WikiProject eyes? It does not have "a majority of the material needed for a completed article." If you're reading this and you are knowledgeable about Ray Charles, please add to this article--it's embarrassingly incomplete. Or maybe this article was recently edited to remove plagiarism mentioned above by other readers? Regardless, it needs help. hmcnally 17:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Point of View
The section on Ray: The Film seems to display a slanted point of view (unsupported by any citations) when it gushes "For two hours, Charles challenged Foxx, who revealed the depth of his talent, and finally, Charles stood up, hugged Foxx, and gave his blessing, proclaiming, "He's the one... he can do it."" I think this should be tweaked to reduce the point of view implicit in the phrase "depth of his talent." Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.68.211.103 (talk) 03:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

Please (You Got That...)
Mr Charles also recorded "Please (You Got That...) " with INXS in 1993. Would it be possible for that to be added? Thanks INXS-Girl 16:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Psychosomatic Cause of Blindness
Mr. Charles writes in his memoirs, on RayCharles.com that It[the death of his brother] was quite a trauma for me, and after that I started to lose my sight. Almost affirming that his own sight loss was due to his trauma at having witnessed, been unable to help, or even partly caused ("we were having fun...pushing and jostling each other around") his brother's death. Glaucoma was never diagnosed, despite there being seemingly straightforward criterior. Infantile glaucoma is also accompanied by deformation of the eye or "ox eye." Photographs of Mr. Charles without his sunglasses do not show deformation. Psysomatic blindness is rare, but sometimes follows trauma.--Timtak 08:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Soapy Water Cause of Blindness was a PHONY EDIT - VANDALISM!
Okay, Seriously guys. I added the soap thing like a year ago as a test to see how long something can stay on wikipedia as long as it's cited to an already existing article. I'm going to still leave it on there until someone else removes it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.169.213.224 (talk) 19:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Interesting but inappropriate experiment. This article needs lots of work, but I'll yank that right now, thanks muchTjoeC (talk) 03:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Great. I just googled "Ray Charles blindness soapy" and got 40,000+ hits, all apparently originating from this article and the vanadal/mad scientist and his admitted phony soapy water edit 3 years ago.  Unless there is some RELIABLE source for soapy water, please do not change the article back, SINCE IT WAS PHONY VANDALISM.  Sheesh!TjoeC (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Cause of Death
In the article it says: He died on June 10, 2004 of "liver disease"[7], at his home in Beverly Hills, California, surrounded by family and friends. His death was not due to liver cancer as was erroneously reported on certain websites[12]. But on his death cirtificate linked from a central "View his death cirtificate" icon on the Findadeath.com site which is given as reference number 23, the cause of death is given as Hepatocellular Carcinoma. The link 12 is to the Boston Phoenix newspaper that describes his cause of death as due to cancer. So there seems to be both death certificate and mainstream press evidence that he died of cancer. The only evidence contra this view is the link 7 to the Boheme Magazine article which says "liver disease," but since liver cancer is a disease of the liver, I am not sure that this contradicts. I would therefore like to change the article to: He died on June 10, 2004 of "liver cancer"[12][23], at his home in Beverly Hills, California, surrounded by family and friends. --Timtak 08:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Raycharlesmodernsounds.jpeg
Image:Raycharlesmodernsounds.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Was he part of the African Methodist Episcopel Church?
Was Ray Charles part of the African Methodist Episcopel Church? http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1488316/20040610/charles_ray.jhtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.241.245.48 (talk) 05:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ray movie.jpg
Image:Ray movie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Performing for Reagan
The page on Ray has a picture of him with the Reagans, and features a quote where he mentions "meeting" the Reagans in 1984. I think it should be mentioned that Ray performed for Reagan's 1984 inauguration. Many celebrities and performers "meet" the President, but very few are asked to perform for a state function. This fact certainly deserves mention in Ray's wiki bio, don't you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ynot4tony (talk • contribs) 20:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * When looking for a source, I discovered Charles performed at a Clinton inauguration as well, so I included the information. Ynot4tony (talk) 17:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC) Ray Charles also performed at Reagan's first inauguration also and sang 'America The Beautiful'.

Stevie Wonder
What's the difference between Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder?Peter Napkin Dance Party (talk) 16:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is a serious question, just read, listen and learn. (MOSTLY LISTEN.... your life will be better) While both were/are Talented Blind African American musicians, there are major differences.  If it was a joke, it was unfunny. TjoeC (talk) 03:56, 6 January 2011 (UTC).

Heroin
In 1965, Charles was arrested for possession of heroin, a drug to which he had been addicted for nearly 20 years. This statement makes it seem like he started heroin in 1945.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.104.132 (talk) 22:21, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It actually is correct, though. At least, according to the article that was a source for the statement: Ray Charles Biography Agadant (talk) 01:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

For other blind musicians
I'd really like to see a section on how he functioned as a blind musician. How did he learn music ?? What tricks did he use (if any) in performances (such as walking out on stage) ?? Those bits of information would be useful to others, and I'm sure Ray would approve of their disclosure.SystemBuilder (talk) 03:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The sentence on giving his children a million dollars each.
There is a sourced article on how Ray Charles gave each of his children a million dollars, however an article was released in 2008 that seems to contradict that. Thoughts? Vasant56 (talk) 23:08, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

This Page needs a criticism chapter
I made one but it was deleted but alot of people believe he was only famous becouse he was blind and not a good muscian--Caputo32 (talk) 02:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * What are your sources for this content?  Tide  rolls  02:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Tons of articles online just google it--Caputo32 (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not the way it works. If you want to add content you must cite the verifiable sources that support your edit.  Regards  Tide  rolls  02:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My bad bruskey —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caputo32 (talk • contribs) 02:46, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The endless vandalism
of this page is very tedious. Shouldn't it be protected? Rothorpe (talk) 17:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with you there Rothorpe-it's a shame that I can't protect the page myself, but hopefully one of the kind admins here will. Soon enough. TurkishSultan 21:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TurkishSultan (talk • contribs)