Talk:Ray Mears/Archive 1

Copyrighted material
I'm pretty sure a large section of this article has been lifted straight off the official website biography.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 07:03, 8 June 2008


 * Which part of the article? Much of it was written by me, not using any other source material – but I'll take it as a compliment! – Agendum (talk) 17:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Advert
this is not an encyclopedia article - its an advert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.228.130 (talk • contribs) 20:36, 17 April 2005


 * Then try making a contribution and improve it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.30.24 (talk • contribs) 22:17, 18 September 2005


 * Mr. Mears sounds like an impressive and successful person, but I have to agree, this does sound a lot like advertising and possibly should be removed until it is improved. It also sounds like it was written by Mr. Mears, his agent or one the "cult followers" the article mentions.
 * Advertising "Having also endorsed a number of products, including the Eco Sleep System and the Woodlore Knife"
 * Sounds like meaningless, opinionated crap to me "In a world market in which many do not survive, Mears definitely has." So he survived as a TV personality and an entrepreneur?  Maybe he survived in part by being paid to endorse products.
 * Also, I know someone is just having a bit of fun, but comments such as "as well as established a great deal of respect from the less endarkened civilians in the urban Americas.", which I removed, is insulting to Americans as well as contributing to Wikipedia's reputation as less than serious. It also shows a high degree of unenlightened ignorance of American History. Jim 12:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

This article does read too much like an advertisement - and with good reason, since much of it is “taken” from Ray Mears own web-site. One can point this out without having to ‘make a contribution and improve it’ (as the unsigned comment, above, supposes). By highlighting this fault, hopefully someone - someone better informed than myself - can develop the article.

To expose the fact that much of the article is “taken” from Mears own web-site, I’ll quote the following …

Upon mentioning that Mears grew up at the North Downs, the article states: “he discovered a countryside abundant with wildlife. He learned to track foxes in the forest at a young age. As a boy, he desired to sleep out on the trail, but unable to afford camping equipment, he resorted to setting up camp using what he could find in his surroundings.”

Mears own, official web-site states he grew up: “on the North Downs, where he discovered a countryside abundant with wildlife. Developing a unique attunement to his local environment, he learned to track foxes into the forest, never realising that he was embarking on a journey that would become his life's mission. Wanting to be able to sleep out on the trail yet unable to afford camping equipment, he resorted to a more Robinson Crusoe approach to solving the problem.”

This illustrates the essential likeness of what is said. Of course, Mears web-site can say anything its authors choose - but Wikipedia authors should avoid plagiarism (and, yes, basic paraphrasing is a form of plagiarism). Simon P Blackburn (talk) 02:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

A couple more questions & observations
Is the article about Ray Mears or his products, TV show and it's episode summaries?

What does the following sentence really mean:

"Having also endorsed a number of products, including the Eco Sleep System and the Woodlore Knife, Mears has made public advocacy for ecologically sustainable consciousness and practicable behaviour a little more profitable."

That his endorsing products has made being an advocate more profitable for himself? Which seems to imply that he finds advocacy more profitable now that he's being paid to endorse the products. I doubt this is true and I don't think Mr. Mears would appreciate the implications.

I'm not criticizing Mr. Mears, I'm just not too fond of the article. Sounds a little like some marketing/promotional/advertising hack was assigned to write an article for publicity sake.

As usual, perhaps I'm wrong.

--Jim 20:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, so I'm a little slow, I finally followed the link for the Episodes and I see it goes to his or someone's store where they're trying to get you to buy the DVD's of Ray's show. Can you imagine running onto an article like this in a reputable encyclopedia? --Jim 20:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I've removed the commercial links, and the wierd paragraph about him "surviving" in a world market (I don't remember him doing a show on that), but I've left the episode summaries, which seem to be quite common on wikipedia (alas). I hope this satisfies the POV objection. --BadSeed 22:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Episode listings
I went to cut the episode listings to a separate page, but it looks like most/all of it was copied from here. Is it worth re-writing, or just cutting it and making this page a proper biography style thing? --ImmortalWombat 13:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no need for an episode summary of each episode on this page, this page should be about Ray Mears not about advertising his products. WP:NOT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.186.142.137 (talk • contribs) 03:22, 16 March 2006


 * Respectfully disagree. The programs he has presented aren't his products, they're the property of the BBC. He is the author of them certainly, and given the wide range of cultures he's covered an episode guide would be an invaluable source, particularly where a reader might have an interest in one particular culture or part of that culture and no interest in any other part of any of his programs. If your suggestion is to be consistently applied then any list for any other author should be deleted. Not sure the Dickens or Shakespear crowd might agree. PhilipPage 02:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that the episode list might be helpful, so I've restored it. If anyone has any objections, we can discuss it here. Thanks. -- Tantalum T  e  lluride  21:04, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * On second thought, the list is long enough and detailed enough to support a separate article on the television show (something like Ray Mears’ Extreme Survival). Would you be willing to right an introductory section for it? I don't know enough about the subject to do it myself. -- Tantalum T  e  lluride  21:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd be happier editing down the episode guide. It is a bit longwinded, and only really needs to feature the most basic details. The Mear's quotes seem ripe for deletion. PhilipPage 21:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Feel free to remove any information that you feel is irrelevant. If you do cut down the list, a separate article for the TV show probably won't be necessary. -- Tantalum T  e  lluride  21:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm aiming at getting all the descriptions down to a size similar to the series three descriptions, so one or two sentences but still covering the content.PhilipPage 21:43, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

New non-commercial version
Looking at editing down episode descriptions as described above, and adding a couple hundred of words for the biography. Hope this is agreeable. PhilipPage 21:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hacked down episode guide, biog still to do. PhilipPage 22:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've approached Mears' company for further biog detail, am currently explaining to them the difference between lifting text from their website and an entry in an encyclopedia. PhilipPage 21:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Woodlore aren't interested in supplying any further biographic info. Not sure if such a short bio warrants such detail on the TV series as a result. Comments anyone? PhilipPage 20:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I would say go for it. The argument has already been made for the validity of the TV series. Tyrenius 00:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Military background?
Anyone know if Ray has any military background? I'm certain he has but need citation. {[unsigned2|20:37, 12 May 2006|88.107.127.186}}


 * I doubt it, he doesn't seem to be the type. 88.111.189.44 14:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes he has which is why he likes to keep mum about biographic details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.114.51 (talk • contribs) 02:35, 20 August 2006

A damn short military career then, born in '64 running a private company in '83 means he would be 19 years old at that time.

Criticism of values
I'm a fan of Mears TV shows but it does seem as though he is 100% motivated by the obtaining of cash - very unfortunate and completely different to how he likes to portray himself. Ray - live as you preach life to others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.79.192 (talk • contribs) 00:06, 24 May 2006
 * I disagree. Where did you get that from? Just because he makes television programmes doesn't mean he's motivated to get cash. Although I do agree that the courses he lectures on are way overpriced. Matt7895 17:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Given that they're booked solid years in advance, the free market would seem to disagree with you on their price, or at least their value for money. Rogerborg 18:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Generally anyone who does not sign there comments are speaking hogwash. I saw one of his lectures, it was pretty good. Cls14 (talk) 18:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

God
This man is a god, please somebody give him his due —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.84.20 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 30 May 2006
 * I'm an atheist, although I do believe Ray Mears is the holiest man to have ever walked the earth. Unfortunately we cannot put it in the article though, because there is no real proof (although his programmes clearly show his divinity). Matt7895 17:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Nuclear War
If there is a nuclear war, the only people who will survive will be Chuck Norris and Ray Mears. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.23.38 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 17 July 2006
 * Chuck Norris pales in comparison to Ray Mears. To liken Ray Mears to any other man is blasphemy. Matt7895 17:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

hy!
I am a teen I love very much Ray Mears's TV shows.I like to know how can i buy some movie with his experiences?Sorry about the gramarry mistakes if there are some... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.158.16.30 (talk • contribs) 08:39, 1 September 2006
 * www.play.com have most if not all of his DVDs. I believe they ship to. Matt7895 17:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Relevance?
Not convinced his remarks regarding Steve Irwins death are necessarily relevant. Given the overall lack of depth it seems a somewhat random piece of info to include. Similarly the reference to the use of his name as slang seems frivolous and more suited to something like urban dictionary. Any objections to the removal of these paragraphs?(Andyuk85 00:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC))


 * No objection from me JoBrodie 18:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Dreadful article
Encyclopaedic? I don't think so. Reading the above comments, this article has already been edited to take out commercial aspects, but I still found plenty. I've edited out more PR puffery and the NPOV comments about his abilities - no sources cited, either. Also removed the link to his wholly commercial website. 86.134.115.239 20:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced material
I have removed the material regarding Mear's supposed consumption of McDonald's Happy Meals while in the field as this (somewhat implausible) statement is unsourced.193.128.240.54 06:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Similar people in See also section
There seem to be an increasing number of similar people (mainly notable for survival skills in the media) listed under See also. They're not really directly related to Ray Mears, so can we remove them and add them to a separate list or category instead? Perhaps all of them can be added to Category:Media documenting survival skills - or should there be a separate category, say Category:Survival skills television presenters? --David Edgar 12:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The 'see also' section is less of a 'related stuff' and more like 'these may also interest you'. I say keep 'em. 217.132.20.163 (talk) 14:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the "See also" list as it currently stands is quite useful for anyone that is researching outdoor survival or survivalism. If a biographies category page is needed, then it should actually be two, or even three linked pages, namely:  Outdoor survival experts, Media documenting survival skills, and Survivalists.  (The latter is my specialty.  See my User page for a list of the Survivalist bio pages that I have worked on. Regards, -- Trasel (talk) 17:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that bear grylls should be included in this list as he is pretty much a more extreme version--79.77.115.84 (talk) 18:53, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Philosopher?
I find the idea that Mears is a philosopher fairly implausible. Is there any justification for this? Edjack 09:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed this. Chris Cunningham 10:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that accusations of "philosophy" are probably unfounded, however, it could be argued that there is a social movement that is exploring "simpler" and less industrial approaches to life. This is evidenced by the increasing interest in the media and the resurgent interest in self sufficiency and environmentalism. It could be suggested that this represents a continuation and a 21st century development of the ideas of writers such as Thoreu.

Disambiguation
Surely the Tennessee fella should be linked on the Ray page, as the portly one is known throughout the world. 86.149.209.189 16:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Neither of them are arguably particularly famous outside their respective domains. At least not to the point where having a hierarchy would be a good idea. Chris Cunningham 17:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Making Some Articles About Ray's Programs
I am going to make some articles about this person's shows soon because I like him. Please do keep the links intact as they will no longer be red links like this. -- MISTER ALCOHOL  TC 03:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Navbox & other stuff
Hi, I've completely redone the navbox because it wasn't right. I've made him a brand new one rather than rely on the music artist box (which doesn't fit really). I've also made some new articles for his books and will finish the rest of the redlinks in the next week. Cheers  fr33k man   -s-  02:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Personal life
I don't feel very comfortable about having the Personal Life section purely consisting of his relationship with his late wife. Anything else we can add here? What do others think? Cheers Agendum (talk) 13:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup. Get rid of it. It's barely relevant and sourced only to a tabloid lifestyle piece. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)