Talk:Ray Nagin/Archive 2

Revert Warrior 209.247.x.x and 138.162.0.x
A user calling himself Long John Silver has been persistently reverting (at least 50 times) to a personal version of this article that contains uncited, highly POV claims that clearly violate WP:NPOV. he has also repeatedly violated WP:NPA calling other editors liars and Nazis. His edits usually have deceptive descriptions, this edit described as 'correcting spelling and grammer[sic]' actually replaces the entire article with his personal version:

The user has also deleted this note.

The user is behind a NAT and the address frequently changes. The same IP address range has also posted racist grafiti on the Martin Luther King and Danny Glover  articles and homophobic bigotry ("RectumReaper is a total flamer.") on the Fucked Company article. He has also made subtle redirect edits to turn redirect pages such as First responder into a personal platform for POV wingnuttery. There is no reason why an article on first responders should mention a current news event at all, let alone contain partisan criticism.


 * 138.162.0.38/28
 * 209.247.222.92/28
 * 12.74.187.122

If the section 'Dueling Criticism' reappears in the article it has been reverted to the highly POV version. Rather than attempting to eliminate the POV in that article please revert to the mainstream version of the article that has been created by the named editors.

One point to watch, some editors have attempted to revert a POV edit by one IP address and reverted to another earlier copy of the text. LJS has then tagged his later reversions as being a revert to that editor's text 'Reverting to better version of this article by HallMonitor' even though HallMonitor did not wirte that text and in fact reverted immediately afterwards.

One side effect of this vandalism is that criticism of Nagin is ending up being stripped out as editors attempt to revert the highly POV statements. --Gorgonzilla 14:38, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the update. Check your watch Gorgonzilla and then revert the page to that time when it is convenient.  The Wiki guidelines suggest that these folks feed on reverts for their ego "I'm in control of the world..." So I dont want you to be wasting your time on endless reverts.  Perhaps for the moment, content editing should hold back and gel, until this storm blows over.  Otherwise, if its 50 times, get a temporary edit hold on the article.Kyle Andrew Brown 17:04, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * My own edits reporting comments critical of Nagin have been stripped out in the process. I agree with your analysis though. The article should be reverted to the non-POV version and locked. Discussion on the ongoing Hurricane Katrina issue should take place in that article and the article on the political fallout. This article should not be used as a place to dump POV theories. --Gorgonzilla 17:27, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism in Progress
Deleted personal attack. I am not LJS nor have I ever posted rasist ramblings. I post from an IP assigned to many many users. Gorgonzilla's continued vandalism and personal attacks are not only a reflection on his intellect, they are a reflection upon his character. -- HazeGray 138.162.0.42 15:29, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well perhaps if you can pursuade the vandal to stop doing this then you might not end up blocked. However deleting the vandalism notice and the wording of your comment indicates that it is most likely that you are the same person as 'Long John Silver' 'Honest Abe' and 'Swamp Fox'. --Gorgonzilla 16:58, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

6 Reverts in 13 hours by 66.43.173.74 / 9 reverts in 24 hours
The latest sockpuppet of Long John Silver/Honest Abe/Swamp Foxx/New IP/etc has reverted 6 times in the past 13 hours under his 66.43.173.74 alias. I suggest we get an admin to 1) block the accounts, 2) lock the article. --Gorgonzilla 14:24, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


 * 1) (cur) (last)  10:15, 13 September 2005 Gorgonzilla (Revert, 3rd LJS revert today.)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 09:49, 13 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (rv Gorgonzilla's attempt to conceal his blatant POV and any warning of the poorly written content here.)
 * 3) (cur) (last) 09:30, 13 September 2005 Gorgonzilla (rv latest LJS sock)
 * 4) (cur) (last) 09:18, 13 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (Clarified where criticism of Nagin was coming from.)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 08:59, 13 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (Text from an Official state document is anything but *my* POV)
 * 6) (cur) (last) 01:58, 13 September 2005 Aquillion (Reverted edits by 66.43.173.74 to last version by Gorgonzilla)
 * 7) (cur) (last) 01:41, 13 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (I have no idea who LJS is. Gorgozilla, reading through your comments you sound obsessed with this guy or worse. STOP THE VANDALISM.)
 * 8) (cur) (last) 01:33, 13 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (→Criticism of Relief Efforts - Defining the Mayor's responsibility under the evacuation plan.)
 * 9) (cur) (last) 22:33, 12 September 2005 Gorgonzilla m (Revert, the only person asserting POV is LJS)
 * 10) (cur) (last) 21:42, 12 September 2005 Antandrus m (Reverted edits by 24.115.4.245 to last version by 66.43.173.74)
 * 11) (cur) (last) 21:41, 12 September 2005 24.115.4.245
 * 12) (cur) (last) 21:33, 12 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (Clarified the objections that should have been obvious to the most casual observer and reverted to version with warnings that attemps to clean this thing up.)
 * 13) (cur) (last) 21:20, 12 September 2005 El C m (Reverted edits by 66.43.173.74 to last version by Aquillion)
 * 14) (cur) (last) 21:09, 12 September 2005 66.43.173.74 (Your vandalism will be reported on your next revert. This article sucks. It needs repair. I've seen several people try. Read the discussion.)

Long John Silver is BLOCKED
So now we know why the latest LJS sock has been denying who he is...


 * Block log 22:52, 12 September 2005 Essjay blocked "User:209.247.222.89" with an expiry time of 24 hours (Vandalism)

I have filed a 3RR complaint for the new sock
 * added to Gorgonzilla's complaint a bit, describing LJS's last three reverts, and his refusal to accept any opinion but his own. Also made reference to his LYINGabout reporting other users as sockpuppets of Gorgonzilla in his article edit descriptions and generally taking everyone's criticisms of his edits and throwing them back. Sorry LJS, but what you're doing constitutes vandalism, and the reverting done by editors is called CONSENSUS. It has been agreed upon that many of the claims you make are unsubstantiated, unsourced or taken out of context, and frankly speaking, riddled with spelling errors and unfortunate phrases. --Jentizzle 23:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Technically none of that matters for the 3rr; all that matters is three reverts within a 24-hour period. Stuff like people ignoring consensus and disputes that can't be resolved could be placed in a RfC or some other part of the dispute resolution process.  It might be time for that now. Reporting people for the 3rr isn't going to serve as a long-term solution; the dispute resolution process might. Aquillion 00:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Under the 3RR someone should be blocked for 24 hours, LJS is meant to blocked already but still does 11 reverts in 24 hours, nothing at all happens. I think it calls into question the idea that Wikipedia can police itself. --Gorgonzilla 00:58, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

The new LJS Sock is blocked: * 22:18, 14 September 2005 Khaosworks blocked "User:66.43.173.74" with an expiry time of 24 hours (3RR violation on Ray Nagin) * 22:18, 14 September 2005 Drini blocked "User:66.43.173.74" with an expiry time of 24 hours (3RR) Suggest that if he returns under a new sock that an RfC be filed as well as whatever 3RR etc reports might be relevant.

Multiple states move to restore and protect citizen's gun rights in the aftermath of Katrina
Several states have passed legislation forbidding the seizure of firearms from law-abiding citizens in time of disaster or emergency, largely due to the seizures ordered by Mayor Nagin in the aftermath of Katrina.

California Governor Schwarzenegger signs AB 1645 Federal and State Laws since Katrina Seizures NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina --71.105.36.125 (talk) 06:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

More Post Katrina Controversy – firearm confiscation
Many people stayed in New Orleans to protect their families, homes, and businesses. Mayor Ray Nagin released inmates from prisons, setting free dangerous, violent criminals at a time when the police force was over-stretched. After Katrina wreaked havoc on the city, some sources claim that anarchy ensued. Rape, murder, and looting were allegedly commonplace in the city. Certain news outlets released reports of police being outnumbered and completely unable to stop the wave of crime.

Police and National Guard from other states were brought in to help. But, many of these government security forces were not used to fight crime, but ordered, by Mayor Ray Nagin, to confiscate legally owned firearms from private citizens. The government used its firearms registration database to obtain the addresses of people who legally purchased firearms and then sent police to forcibly take those legally owned firearms from the owners.

The law requires that items confiscated need to be recorded and a receipt listing the items confiscated be left with the persons how owns the item. In the case of a firearm, the make, model, and serial number needs to be recorded. The law enforcement agents who confiscated the arms provided no such receipts.

It took months and a federal court to get Mayor Ray Nagin to admit that the confiscation had occurred – he had been denying it up to that time. A federal court ordered Nagin to return the firearms to the owners. New Orleans is requiring back ground checks and proof of ownership. Their system to perform background checks is not up and running and no receipt (proof of ownership) were given to citizens when the firearms were confiscated. Most, if not all residents are still fighting to get their legally owned firearms back.

Controversy sections
Perhaps we could consolidate the controversy sections into one, instead of embedding each individual one under its respective subject? Its just that nearly every other page follows this format, and it would be nice to see this page conform. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LarsendeSLO (talk • contribs) 18:07, August 26, 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree, Nagin has been involved in too many controversies to coherently consolidate into one section. As it is, the article only mentions about half of them.  If the controversies were somehow related to one event or even each other I would agree, but they aren't. (D.c.camero (talk) 14:48, 13 September 2008 (UTC))

Hurricane Ike comments
I"m not the writer that others are.. This seems like it should be added to the controversy section.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5999702.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.6.18 (talk) 22:14, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Diversity comments
Hi, I was looking over the page and I wanted to say - I doubt that Uptown New Orleans is of the most diverse racially. How is it diverse racially? Who are at least 90% of the inhabitants? Zoodly (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * 90% what? 90% New Orleanian?   Hm, I'm guessing if you're from New Orleans East and never go Uptown, you think it's more than 90% white, and if you're from Metairie and never go Uptown, you think its more than 90% black... (I wish this were just a joke-- I've encountered too many people with such impressions).  Check out Greater New Orleans Community Data Center website for neighborhood demographics. Uptown narrowly defined "57.7% white, 36.0% Black or African American" with just a smattering of other; other Uptown neighborhoods Milan Irish Channel LGD etc etc; other than a couple of outliers like Audubon (very white- 86%) and Central City (very black- 87%), pretty much all of Uptown "blacks" and "whites" never outnumber eachother by more than 2 to one. Not too diverse in Asians and Hispanics (though I suspect next year's census will see a jump in the latter), but a visible minority. Perhaps one of the most notably diverse aspects that housing racially mixed by block is the rule rather than exception for much of Uptown. (There's also a good bit of diversity within the generalized "white" and "black" designations as well, but I think this is enough to get you started.) Cheers from an Uptown New Orleanian who can see Black, White, Hispanic, Vientamese, Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish neighbors without even crossing the street, -- Infrogmation (talk) 21:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

So I looked at a map here and I can see that Uptown is a pretty big area. Overall though, I would say it is quite segregated. When I drive around Tulane, which is the rich area of Uptown, I see at least 90% whites. So it's somewhat segregated still.

Those numbers displayed are from the 2000 census. That percentage you listed is somewhat misleading - I find this map to give a better representation -. As of now, nobody has precise numbers. I personally would like to see more diversity in the city, and would like to see less racism across the board. But I don't doubt that the rich Uptown residents have more sway in city politics than people in poorer areas. And it is a legitimate concern for African-Americans if they don't see enough representation in city politics - that their areas are getting the short end of the stick. 74.250.205.124 (talk) 23:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Spacing
At least on my computer, this article displays itself with too much space between referenced text and the seguing superscript—likewise with braced comments inserted by editors. Some characters become overstruck by others.

Arrows pointing to external links are removed by 2cm (the better part of an inch) to the right of the links to which they refer.

Are these display quirks the result of a plague in the article or on my machine? Can anyone fix them? Rammer (talk) 14:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Jamaica trip controversy?
There's a heading for "Jamaica trip controversy" but no prose under it. Is something on the way? Did a section get only partially merged or deleted? What's the situation? Rammer (talk) 15:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

neutrality?
i don't particularly like nagin's politics and his controversies merit documentation, but i feel like the current article focuses and microscopes everything negative and diminishes anything positive about him. I'll grant that i'm a recent transplant to new orleans and my knowledge of nagin's entire history is minimal, but i question whether or not there can at least be a token area where his merits (if any) can be summarized to help offset the overall negative tone. Darknote (talk) 18:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I also think there is considerable undue weight being given to minutiae of his political job and city issues, with a tendency towards irrelevance from a biographical point of view. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Hurricane Katrina
I fail to see how any of the section is remotely biographical; it is in quite great detail. Even if it was important -which the article fails to deliver - it can be shorter and with a personal focus on Nagin, with a main tag on the section. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Controversy aside...
I started trying to fix grammatical, spelling and syntax problems in this article, but there are just too many. The spell check shows the spelling mistakes, so that's easy enough to manage. The article starts off being pretty well written, but later sections degenerate badly -- different authors? Whatever the reason, some one person needs to take responsibility for cleaning up these problems, so there is a unified voice for the article as a whole. Zlama (talk) 21:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

OTRS comments: "Article is too positive"
''Pasted here on behalf of someone who wrote into OTRS (ticket 2012050610000813). Any comments should be directed at 'Brian' rather than myself, although I may help him navigate the discussion a bit. Cheers!'' Ocaasit &#124; c 04:25, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Below, I list a very few of the stories about the actions of ex New Orleans Mayor, Ray Nagin.  These include stories of rampant corruption in Nagins city hall government, Federal grand jury probe of Nagin, Guilt of Nagin's good friend and IT "expert", Greg Meffert, now indicted. The list is by no means complete but if you care to take time to read the enclosed Times Picayune editorials, by three different senior editorial writers, you might get the gist of the concerns I have about the rosy report in Wikipedia.


 * Also you are using a speech by Nagin as source material. Indeed one comes away with the impression that the whole Wikipedia article was a pr effort for Ray Nagin.  I won't bother to address Nagin's Recovery Czar, Ed Blakely, who, if you ask almost anyone in New Orleans, will, I think, agree that Blakely was a ... and totally ineffectual.


 * I hope this information will encourage you to reread the article in Wikipedia and to perhaps give it a greater review of the facts as we in New Orleans who lived through Kartina and the recovery period, see them.


 * Yours sincerely, Brian


 * Latest book describing corruption in Nagin City government and after Katrina fiascos
 * Federal grand jury probe
 * Times Picayune Op-ed
 * Op-ed
 * Op--ed
 * Corrupt Nagin City government
 * Times Picayune piece including a list of controversies

Here's a timeline from the Times Picayune about his time in office:


 * December 2004:The Ray Nagin family goes to Hawaii and meets up with Greg Meffert's family in Maui. Mark St. Pierre, whose company Imagine Software, operates Nagin's city technology office, pays for the Nagins' airfare.
 * Feb. 28, 2005: Frank Fradella's Home Solutions of America acquires countertop installer Cornerstone Building and Remodeling Inc. from Anthony Leeber Jr. Cornerstone announces the receipt of major countertop contracts with The Home Depot in Louisiana.
 * November 2005: St. Pierre lines up a private jet to take the Nagins to Jamaica, according to testimony later given by Meffert. But Nagin isn't sure of travel dates, so Meffert gives a St. Pierre corporate credit card to Nagin's secretary, who purchases first-class commercial airline tickets for the Nagin family.
 * Early 2006-August 2006: St. Pierre provides lawn maintenance services worth a total of about $1,500 for Nagin's home on Park Island.
 * March 2006: Leeber is pushed out of Home Solutions' Cornerstone subsidiary. Leeber says Fradella then guts Cornerstone and in 2007 delivers "inventory and equipment" to Nagin's family company, Stone Age LLC.
 * May 8, 2006: Nagin has fund-raiser in Chicago hosted by St. Pierre and others. Records show St. Pierre paid for Nagin's airfare.
 * June 1, 2006: Nagin is sworn in for second term.
 * Jan. 20-22, 2007: Aaron Bennett provides mayor with private jet leased by a Home Solutions subsidiary to go to Chicago and Las Vegas, where Bennett introduces Nagin to Frank Fradella.
 * January 2007: Bennett begins getting paid by city to pay St. Pierre for technology office work.
 * April 2007: Stone Age LLC lands deal supplying and installing countertops for four Home Depot stores.
 * April 13, 2007: Times-Picayune publishes story about private jet to Chicago, Vegas. Nagin later uses public money to pay Bennett $1,852 for airfare.
 * August 2007: Home Solutions press release mentions that former Home Depot executive Larry Laseter is the new president of Home Solutions' interior services division.
 * March 23, 2008: Times-Picayune publishes story about Stone Age's deal with Home Depot.
 * April 2008: Home Depot ends deal with Stone Age.
 * April 17, 2008-Nov. 17, 2008: Nagin's calendar notes nine different meetings with Fradella. All are initially blacked out when his schedule is released.
 * Nov. 1, 2010: Meffert pleads guilty to conspiracy, filing false tax return. He goes on to testify against St. Pierre. His sentencing has been delayed until May.
 * May 26, 2011: St. Pierre is convicted on 53 federal corruption counts and later is sentenced to 17½ years in prison.
 * May 31, 2011: Fradella is indicted in Texas on securities fraud charges.
 * Oct. 14, 2011: Aaron Bennett pleads guilty to bribing Plaquemines Parish sheriff. His sentencing has been pushed back until June.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocaasi (talk • contribs)


 * Certainly the article is problematic, and over some months seems to have been edited by socks with apparent motivation to make it into puffery. The purpose of the article should be, of course, to neither praise nor slam the subject, but rather to state the facts, and on issues of significant controversy give SOURCED quotes from observers and published sources. -- Infrogmation (talk) 00:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

What's up?
I noted previously that the section on Hurricane Katrina was non-biographical. I just don't get it. It's a huge coatrack that has no direct relevance to this article, yet it has remained as a glaring fault. If his role during the hurricane was controversial, it should be made explicitly so, backed up with sources. Right now, the article is neither here nor there, and thus unacceptable. -- Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 03:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously having armed men going door-to-door for confiscation while letting looters do whatever they want didn't exactly make him popular afterwards, either. Especially when he had to nerve to blame the feds for a slow response when he refused to give the order to evacuate...  This whole event is rightfully laid on the city and state governments by many people.  The feds didn't help when refusing volunteers though.  Stringing together two words starting with C.F. come to mind.  ;)  71.196.246.113 (talk) 09:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

"please address the stated concerns on the talk page"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ray_Nagin&diff=next&oldid=559829782

NOLA and USNEWEWS are good news sources. What the hell? RocketLauncher2 (talk) 21:55, 16 June 2013 (UTC)