Talk:Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal

Origins
This URL has a conflicting version of the origins of the article and in particular the location and identity of the author. It seems the Wikipaedian who has submitted this brief article has looked at but one source and there are currently over 350,000 references to it online. I suggest your Wikipaedian do a bit more research. http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/realmen.html


 * Ed Post, Graphic Software Systems, P.O. Box 673, 25117 S.W. Parkway, Wilsonville, OR 97070. Copyright (c) 1982 -- But note footnote 9 "Datamation, July, 1983, pp. 263-265." and my comments in the next subsection section. --PBS (talk) 11:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned
For those of you who read this and and don't know the old way that email addressed were formed was right to left (the opposite way to the way people are used to today) So fu@bar would be bar!fu and if the email was relayed to the recipient each leg of the path would be added on to the address, (so a reply could be routed back) therefore if an email went through a couple of servers called punch and judy the address would be judy!punch!bar!fu (see UUCP for mail routing)

A version of this essay was published in NJW/SOFT/2/84, That version came with the section called Acknowledgement that contained the following:
 * I would  like to thank Jan E., Dave S., Rich G,.  Rich  E.,  for  their  help in characterising the Real Programmer. Kathy  E,  for putting   up   with  it,  and ATD!AVEDS' MARK  for   the   initial inspiration.

And another line tagged on the end added by another person.
 * [DEC hacker note] This came from a paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned. The author apparently is a Unix hacker (note the  node name.) Does anyone know where It came from?

Here is a source (http://www.hermanmol.nl/herman/realpgmr.htm by Steve Woodford - May 14. 1987) that mentions some of this information.

This source also mentions the DEC hacker. It also carries footnotes that was not in the photocopy of the NJW version I saw, but note footnote 9 "sdcarl!lin, "Real Programmers", UUCP-net, Thu  Oct 21 16:55:16 1982" which is before the publication date of "Datamation, volume 29 number 7, July 1983." which suggests that at least some of this was doing the rounds earlier than the Datamation and may have been on the usenet.

Now the publication date the NJW (Feb 84) is later than Datamation, volume 29 number 7, July 1983, and it may be that they published a copy that someone had made of the Datamation article, but it is also possible that the Datamation article was also a copy of the "paper that surfaced in Bedford unsigned". Which is not to say that the author was not written by Ed Post, just that it is not as clear as this Wikipedia article makes out where it first surfaced. --PBS (talk) 11:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

usenet
A search of the web on sdcarl!lin returns a number of hits including this one (which gives his/her name as L. Seltzer, Dept. of Music, Univ. of Calif.) from there one can to view profile which returns this and in that list is Real Programmers net.jokes (Received Oct 23 1982, Posted: Thu Oct 21 16:55:16 1982)

A search of that news group net.jokes returns more prototypes:

Oct 17 1982, 8:34 am By avsds:mark


 * Mar 11 1983, 11:56 am by hou5e!jjm


 * Mar 12 1983, 12:28 pm by hou5e!jjm reply by utcsrgv!dave Mar 14 1983, 4:46 pm reply by reed!bred Mar 23 1983, 3:31 am
 * Mar 14 1983, 7:52 am by csu-cs!silver
 * Mar 18 1983, 2:55 am by mi-cec!dvk
 * Mar 23 1983, 3:31 am by utcsrgv!dave
 * Mar 23 1983, 6:23 am floyd!edp
 * Mar 23 1983, 7:32 am By teklabs!keithe
 * Mar 29 1983, 1:36 pm by rayssd!dhb
 * Apr 13 1983, 8:13 am by sdccsu3!ix710
 * Jun 5 1983, 6:10 am by ee163hn
 * Jun 10 1983 Jun 10 1983, 6:09 pm ciara...@rochester.UUCP and gcsherw...@watcgl.UUCP reply on Wed, Jun 15 1983 1:16


 * Nov 20 1984, 9:32 am by Matt Crawford repost of Source: usenet: utastro!nather, May 21, 1983 and a search there returns that utastro!nather was  Ed Nather, Astronomy Dept., U. of Texas, Aus

--PBS (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC) -- edited PBS (talk) 14:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Some more from other news groups at around the same time:
 * Feb 11 1983, 9:42 pm On fa.human-nets


 * May 27 1983, 4:43 pm in net.micro.cpm and cross posted to net.micro The subject line is "Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche"


 * Jun 4 1983, 9:39 pm a thread of 3 posts in net.micro.cpm started by Jerry E. Pournelle called "Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche".
 * Jul 26 1983, 3:40 am in the group net.lang.pascal quotes "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", E. Post Datamation, July 1983, p263. But a third entry in the thread says "Of course, this first appeared over Usenet!"

Another observation Dates:
 * The Story of Mel was first published on the usenet in net.jokes on 21 May 1983. There is a website that had the text to Real Programmers it also has a version of The Story of Mel which unlike many other versions includes in it an email address (but it is an email address that was in use at the time) and that version starts:

See May 17 20:58:16 1983 newsgroup net.usenix

As Datamation article did not come out until July 1983, the Story of Mel must either be referring to the piece published somewhere else before it as published in Datamation or the line must refer to a different article. -- PBS (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Also The realest programmer of all net.jokes posted by Matt Crawford 20/11/1984 'I repost here (with permission!!) an article which appeared quite some time ago, as these things are reckoned, in that well-respected electronic journal of humor, "net.jokes" -- Source: usenet: utastro!nather, May 21, 1983'

-- PBS (talk) 11:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)