Talk:Rebirth (breathwork)

This isn't even close to NPOV; should mention criticisms clearly, not just that advocates hope to find evidence sufficient to silence them. Probably should also mention the child killed by a rebreathing "therapist". Vicki Rosenzweig 20:21 Jul 20, 2002 (PDT)

On 23 July 2004, anonymous user 63.224.229.31 made a number of changes to this article attempting to narrow it to Leonard Orr's definition of breathing only. While I understand the desire to distance it from the birth reenactment techniques, the common usage of the term 'rebirthing' does include those highly controversial (and, I believe, dangerous) practices. I am reverting most of those changes but refer future readers to this comparison from the edit history. Note: If you consider "Rebirthing Breathwork" to be a substantially different topic than the wider topics being discussed here, it should probably be created at a page by that name. Rossami 23:11, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I made those changes. The article as it stands now is misleading. At the beginning it talks about the compression kind of rebirthing and then under history it talks about Leonard Orr. These are two *completely* different types of therapies with different histories, motives, and practices. The rebirthing breathwork therapy movement is much larger and older, not to mention safer. It involves no compression or reenactment at all. The reason for it being named rebirthing is different, there is no simulation of the birth but rather people sometimes experience remembering their birth. Since my corrections were deleted, perhaps someone else can remedy this misrepresentation and at least clarify that the two practices are utterly distinct. shinyblue 11:03, 30 Oct 2004 (PST)

Rebirthing vs Rebirthing-breathwork
On 2 Feb 2005, anonymous user 217.137.212.18 added the following disclaimer to Criticisms bullet # 7 (which begins "The process can be dangerous...) - "[This procedure involved re-enactment of birth in a hands-on physical way, and had nothing to do with "rebirthing breathwork".]" As with the edits back in July, I understand the desire by some adherents of Orr's theory to distance themselves from the very dangerous practices described in this article.  Based on the evidence available to me, shinyblue is correct that "rebirthing-breathwork" is sometimes considered a different practice but incorrect that they have no historical or philosophical connection.  The readings I've found on "rebirthing" all seem to cite Orr's work at some level.

Since it seems to keep coming up, I will attempt a narrower article just on Rebirthing-Breathwork but, not being an expert, it will be a first draft only. Rossami (talk) 19:38, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Addressing Factual Inaccuracies
I, David McNab, (david at rebirthing dot co dot nz) am the author of the original entry, and am an accredited rebirthing practitioner and trainer of ten years standing. While I accept now that the original version was not a NPOV, the present version that Rossami reverted to (thus erasing my edits of yesterday) does not reflect a NPOV either.

I refer especially to the paragraph beginning with "This process can be dangerous...". There have been no recorded fatalaties resulting from the practice of rebirthing, as the process is defined in the literature and taught in practitioner training courses. I repeat again that the media coverage of the death of Candace Newmaker inaccurately termed the 'therapeutic' techniques as 'rebirthing'. They were no more 'rebirthing' than Dr Kavorkian's homicidal conduct was 'modern mainstream medicine'. They are not taught, and are actively discouraged in, rebirthing practitioner training courses. This is borne out by the fact that the Colorado Legislature has omitted the word "rebirthing" from the Candace Newmaker Bill (which outlaws therapeutic techniques involving dangerous practices of physical restraint).

To Rossami - I must question your qualification in setting yourself up as a self-appointed censor with respect to this article. Have you completed a rebirther practitioner training? Have you personally undertaken any rebirthing sessions with an accredited practitioner? Have you even read any rebirthing textbooks such as "Celebration of Breath" (Sondra Ray), "Rebirthing Made Easy" (Colin Sisson), "Rebirthing In The New Age" (Leonard Orr and Sondra Ray)??

I must ask that you desist from stamping your factual inaccuracies on this article. I am happy to work with you to arrive at an accurate and balanced treatment of the topic. But I am not willing to stand by while people deprecate a process which countless people credit for massively improving their health and quality of life.

Thank you for your understanding.

Rebirthing-Breathwork versus Rebirthing??
On closer reading of Rossami's comments above, I notice that Rossami is working from the two distinct concepts which s/he terms rebirthing and rebirthing-breathwork. Rossami also claims that in "the common usage of the word", 'rebirthing' means a process involving life-threatening practices of restraint. I utterly dispute this claim. Can you provide any statistical or other justification? Can you cite any literature from recognised experts in the field which support your definition?

The original canonical text of rebirthing is "Rebirthing In The New Age" by Leonard Orr and Sondra Ray (Celestial Arts Publications, 1974. This book makes no mention of any restraint practices.

Rossami, the correct name for what you are terming rebirthing is actually attachment therapy. The term rebirthing-breathwork was coined by Leonard Orr in the late 1980s in an effort to nurture a community inclusive of rebirthers as well as practitioners of other breathwork-based techniques such as vivation, holotropic breathwork etc.

Thanking you again for your understanding and open mind.

I practice Rebirthing and have had the honor to meet Leonard Orr. It is unfortunate that a so called "therapist" ever used the word "rebirth" to try to describe the horrorible approach she used to help a defenseless child. If you read how this "therapist" treated and talked to the child during whatever process she was trying to achieve, you can see that all she did was make her patient feel worse about herself, and ultimately caused her death. How can that be called anything, even "therapy"?

During Connected BreathWork and TRUE Rebirthing practices, the patient lays comfortably on the floor, never being wrapped or forced to do anything other than to connect our breathing, relax and go into a deeper relaxation. I have always felt safe and at peace, and my rebirther only has loving words, and support during this process. Overall, I end up feeling incredibly loved, helped and understood. As a result of this amazing practice, my life has improved tremendously, my experiences are better and better everytime, and that is a fact. People tend to be opinionated because is free and it makes them feel important, but we all know that the facts are what matter, and a fact cannot be changed, where as opinions do all the time. I am a living proof and a living fact, regardless of anything that anybody else may say.

Never have I been called "quitter", "looser", or "just die", like the "therapist" killer that took that childs life. That can never be compared to what true rebirthing breathwork is and does for you.

Talk to a real person that has experienced this amazing technique, and you too will see the light at the end of the tunnel. 70.46.74.58 19:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)Ivonne Ramirez, FL.

merged due to the name and no need for both
Hi I've merged this due to people never going to search for an article with a title ending in (duplicate) and there being no need for two articles. Any extra info that was here is now contained there too, so that article is not inferior in any way, and it has a proper title. The edit history is still here, nothing is lost and it was all done properly. Please take a look at the other article before you revert. All that was here is there, I think, but correct that article please if you think I missed a bit. So feel free to edit on Rebirthing-Breathwork, look forward to seeing you there. Merkinsmum 23:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)