Talk:Recep Tayyip Erdoğan/Archive 2

Bagatlı Recep
How has this been allowed on wikipedia:

""Bagatlı Recep", Recep from Bagat, died in 1916 fighting against the invading Russian and Armenian forces.[1]

Erdoğan grew up, in the Kasımpaşa district of Istanbul, a less than affluent neighborhood, famous for its macho honor code.[3] Muslim men are known to be quick to anger, painfully proud and blunt in word, and he has always been proud of being one.[3]"

Weasel words anyone. "Macho honor code", "quick to anger", "painfully proud", you must be kidding me. I am not completely familiar with the WikiCode but I know for sure that the above type of statements are definitely not allowed.

Secondly, citation "1" is not a reputable source. "Armenian rebellion" you got to be kidding me! I am not even going to get into that but just the nature of the article alone proves it is not an academic or scholarly source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.238.146 (talk) 23:06, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

What, Academic and Scholarly? I just come here and read in order to have a good laugh. This article is an insult to the principles of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.56.49.40 (talk) 05:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Jewish?
In the introduction part, there is a statement says that Erdoğan is the first jewish prime minister of Turkey. This is not true as you can predict and I think whoever done this statement is done with bad intentions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinany (talk • contribs) 13:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * it was some bloke vandalising the page. it's not true of course.--Cerian (talk) 13:24, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Although it may not be true, there are several sources saying that Tayyip erdoğan is the first Jewish PM of Turkey. Ergün Poyraz wrote several books on Erdoğan's ethnicity and stated that Erdoğan has Jewish roots as well as Georgian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Propaganda article?
While it's perfectly understandable that some sort of courtesy should be shown to a prime minister of any country, this article lacks all sorts of controversies surrounding Mr. Tayyip Erdogan. It only focuses on his success' and the praises he got from others. This article reads like a party brochure and seems to be written by AK Parti supporters. Please keep in mind that he is a very controversial figure in Turkish politics and that he gets less than half of the votes in Turkey. Things like these should be mentioned as well. --Diren Yardimli (talk) 11:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree on your perception of article's status as a "propoganda" brochure but I see your point. WP:Bold?--Cerian (talk) 19:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that there needs to be more controversy as well. There is also no section on Israel in regard to foreign relations and the section on Iraq opens with a sentence about Gul.--NortyNort (talk) 03:37, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The same problem afflicts many politician entries - Wikipedia is an ideal medium for propaganda dissemination, so obviously politicians media-manage (by proxy of course) their own entries. 93.97.143.19 (talk) 19:01, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a propaganda brochure alright. I've added Erdogan's own statement regarding gender equality (which he opposes, of course, being an Islamist) to the page but a vandal keeps deleting it. Well, I guess AKP supporters cannot tolerate any criticism/controversy regarding this crappy dictator. 212.253.32.195 (talk) 04:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Diren Yardimli, to make this article less propaganda oriented I think it should include some other important controversial points (e.g. in a separate controversy section), such as:
 * officially receiving Omar al-Bashir who has been charged with genocide in Sudan (and for whom an international arrest warrant is issued)
 * the traffic accident involving his son and Sevim Tanürek alleging misuse of his powers during his governing of the city of Istanbul
 * inappropriate language towards the people he represents e.g "anani da al git"
 * intolerance against media e.g. suing cartoon drawers (e.g. emre) 13:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emreg00 (talk • contribs)
 * He is one of the dictators of Middle East like Essad, Hussein and Mubarak; however there is not a mention of this in this article. Inspectortr (talk) 16:38, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, at least he doesn't vandal wikipedia pages like you do.--Cerian (talk) 16:46, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, I see your point. Of course vandalising a wikipedia page (which is your so-called accusation) is much worse than being a dictator and murdering opposition party supporters in streets. I am a bad bad guy. However, continuosly deleting a referenced information from a page without any logical reason just due to being a supporter of a politician (what you do) does not account for vandalism, does it? --Inspectortr (talk) 19:01, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So your suggestion is, as long as there is a reference, without thinking reliability or relevance, we should just write it down here with provocative titles, right? I've some problems with that. As you already positioned yourself against Erdogan, I also have problems with your neutrality. But, it doesn't matter if you oppose his politics as long as you remain neutral and relevant to this wiki page.--Cerian (talk) 20:00, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "it doesn't matter if you oppose his politics as long as you remain neutral and relevant to this wiki page." That's right. So please stop vandalism. --Inspectortr (talk) 21:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting to see that you still call people as "vandals" where everyone except you trying to reach a consensus here.--Cerian (talk) 21:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the controversy over the lack of controversial content, a personal attack is always completely uncalled for. Please keep that in mind. Thank you.  EW  i kist Talk 17:05, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Erdogan states that men and women are not equal
The whole article reeks of Islamist AKP propaganda and reads like a hagiography. There is no criticism or controversies section whatsoever. Well, how about this? Erdogan, in a recent speech, has clearly stated that he does not believe in gender equality. He said that "it is impossible for men and women to be equal." Since he himself expressed this sentiment, I'm adding this to the article. So much for the "moderate Muslim" that some idiots believe will bring democracy to Turkey. And yeah, I'm a Turkish feminist myself. 212.253.227.164 (talk) 02:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC) Link: http://www.haberturk.com/polemik/haber/537849-kadin-ve-erkegin-esit-olmasi-mumkun-degil


 * Don't just take bits and pieces.. If you read the article wholly then you would have seen that whole sentence used for compassion of women. Who does the propoganda now? And he hasn't said anything wrong. Humans are divided into two, whom contemplate each other with differentiated emotions and thoughts.--Cerian (talk) 07:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

He says that men and women are not equal but "complement" each other. This is the same bullshit that Christian fundamentalists say regarding women. Remember that this is the man who said that "all women must have at least three children" and is responsible for all the legislations that limit the freedom of women to work. The source is an unbiased newspaper, and Tayyip Erdogan has expressed this sentiment himself, therefore the sentence should stay. Erasing it is nonsense. 212.253.32.195 (talk) 19:10, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I reverted the edit as I believed it was taken out of context with the source to push a point of view. In all, there are problems with that addition. One, it must cite the source. I translated it with Google and could not see "Erdogan does not believe in gender equality." Even if the source is reliable, you must represent it with due weight to the source and the article. You can't pick and choose what you want out of an article. The way I interpreted it was that he does not believe they are physically the same which sounds kind of obvious. The article cannot say he doesn't believe in gender equality unless you have some reliable sources stating so. You may feel he does, but only what the sources say can go into the article.--NortyNort (Holla) 08:41, 3 September 2010 (UTC)


 * NortyNort and Cerian are right about this issue. The quotation is out of context. Erdogan does not say that men are better than women. On the contrary, he speaks very positively about women. For example, Erdogan says that the financial assistance of primary school pupils will be given to mothers instead of fathers, because "mothers in general are more responsible and trusted".
 * Secondly, Erdogan never said that all women "must" have at least three children. He said that to sustain the young population of Turkey, we will need at least three children per family. Otherwise, Turkey will have in the future the same problem as developed countries (e.g Germany and the Netherlands).
 * 1 - Population ageing. If there are relatively fewer young people, they will have to pay more for the social security system.
 * 2 - An increasingly smaller population. Randam (talk) 16:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC) Link: http://arsiv.ntvmsnbc.com/news/438418.asp
 * Well then, let me translate it for you: The title of the article says "It is impossible for men and women to be equal" followed by his statement: "Woman is woman, and man is man. Is it possible for them to be equal? They complement each other." I find it amusing that you push your own PoV and vandalise the page even though you have no knowledge of the Turkish language and base your assumption on Google's imperfect translation device. His religious beliefs regarding women are very similar to Complementarism theology. He believes in strong gender roles in society and marriage and he rejects gender equality. Now, I have included his own personal and verifiable statement on the page and you're erasing it. This page is a bloody hagiography, there is simply no controversies/criticism page which exists on almost every other Wiki page, and even his own confessions apparently cannot be included on this page if they "tarnish" his "image." You are, effectively, vandalising the page. 212.253.32.195 (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It was clear that this is being taken out of context from what I read. If it is not controversial, like it seems, then is there any reason to include any of it in the article? Don't add that blurb about gender equality in again, the edits are becoming disruptive and consensus is against inclusion. It isn't even just his own words, it is your own POV on his words. If anything is added, consensus should be reached here.--NortyNort (Holla) 01:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You are vandalising the page and making irrational accusations. I have cited three neutral references, please assume good faith and stop vandalising the passage. Only his own statements are included on the page. Erdoğan himself has clearly stated that he does not believe in gender equality, he instead believes that genders "complement/complete" each other. I am merely translating the newspaper articles. You are obfuscating the matter by accusing me of being POV, whereas I am only quoting his own statements, including why he believes families must make at least three children, and why relevant experts have dismissed his claims. Please stop vandalising this page with your POV censorship and propaganda attempts. If the PM of a country is making strong statements regarding gender equality, positive or negative, there is absolutely no reason for excluding them from his/her page. (Unless of course you're an AKP fanatic who cannot tolerate free speech.) The sources are not POV, all three resources are mainstream newspapers. 212.253.32.195 (talk) 02:02, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have reported this to the administrator's noticeboard and requested you be blocked to prevent more edit warring on the article. You have reverted or re-added the information 3x while editor's in this discussion disagree with WP policy-backed arguments.--NortyNort (Holla) 02:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "eşit" has another meaning, "has no differences" (source:TDK). It is possible that he used the word with this meaning. Ayasi (talk) 22:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Erdoğan said ''Woman is woman, man is man. Is it possible that both of them could be equal ? Both are complementary to each other.''

This his expression is open to interpretations and perceptions. For example, Haber Turk referred to "physical equality" ("fiziksel olarak..."). So we cannot use expression such as In July 2010, Erdoğan stated that he does not believe in gender equality. Because the term gender equality can remind the equality of rights and that expression does not match to Neutral point of view. Takabeg (talk) 05:25, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

What is Haber61 ? And Ulusal Kanal isn't neutral. It's the propaganda organization of the Workers Party of Turkey. We must not use such a web cite especially about political issues. Takabeg (talk) 05:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, I have reverted it three times, others editors as well have and the IP has re-added it 9x despite the discussion. The statement needs to be put in better context and since it can be misinterpreted and was not harshly criticized (therefore insignificant), I don't think it belongs in his BIO. There are open discussions at BLPN and ANI regarding the IP's edits if any editors wish to contribute. I myself am not reverting the text anymore to avoid edit warring. It should be left up to consensus which I believe has been reached for the most part. I believe it should be removed at least for now and if the IP adds it again, the page should be protected or the IP blocked to prevent more edit warring.--NortyNort (Holla) 06:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * You may take out the "Ulusal Channel" reference if you wish, since there are already several reliable sources. His expression, I'm afraid, is very crystal clear. "Eşit" means "equal." Please notice that I am merely conveying his own words, and you are doing original research here, in trying to imbue his words with an alternative meaning. His remarks were criticised and indeed a scientific report was published just to counter his claims. Your reference merely reflects an intellectual's POV, who lamented that there was no significant criticism. Also, Erdogan's statement about a universally important question is definitely relevant to a page describing his political views, irrespective of the level of controversy this may stir. You are imposing a whimsical rule here. If George Bush, for example, would state that "abortion is evil" (which he may have done) this would belong to his article even if a single individual's POV speculated that the subsequent reaction was not enough. Also, when he made these remarks, there were protests in the hall. The article (below) clearly says that there was a negative reaction and discussions erupted after his words. The women who heard his words were not mistaken about their meaning. You are trying to distort the picture. You can read more from here, another reference I'm going to include later. http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/?hn=159212 212.253.32.195 (talk) 00:35, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Sunni
This was removed from the info box but is still a cat,ategory:Turkish_Sunni_Muslims there is nothing I can see in the article to support it and I couldn't find anything in google english search, has anyone got a citethat supports it or shall he be removed from the cat also? Off2riorob (talk) 14:32, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing there in English sources. Gotta say didn't look much. But I know for sure he's Sunni.--Cerian (talk) 18:41, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I got that from the search also, perhaps a Turkish speaking person will find us a citation. If it was in Turkish it would also be fine. Off2riorob (talk) 18:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * See page 28 (34) in this PDF. It describes him as a traditional Sunni.--NortyNort (Holla) 08:28, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice one, I am of away from the comp. I would have prefered a wider independant publication and I was suprised to see all pictures copyright of Reuters without a statement that reuters said they could use them. Just to assert he is Sunni I think its fine, I might ask at the RS noticeboard later or feel free yourselves, thoughts? Off2riorob (talk) 11:01, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless something better comes along, I think we should. Most of Turkey is Sunni so I would assume he is as well. Like the comments above, I can't find much.--NortyNort (Holla) 11:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I agree. I have asked for comments at the WP:RSN here - Off2riorob (talk) 12:03, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to correct this information. Mr. Erdoğan is a Tayyibst Muslim. Tayyibism is a sect of Islam and according to the Ulema, Mr. Erdoğan is a Tayyibist Muslim. He himself never said that he is of sunni branch and never denied that he is a Tayyibist Muslim. Inspectortr (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Rob, I found these articles that mention Sunni/Shia, but this seems the kind of thing that gets found in books like biographies, histories of conflict, etc. So I'm going over to UCLA tomorrow, I'll stop by the library. I'm sure the reference librarian can point me in the right direction. Malke 2010 (talk) 04:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/e/recep_tayyip_erdogan/index.html

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/ways+become+again+Turkey/3526705/story.html

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NDc5ODA4NDA5

http://www.newstatesman.com/middle-east/2010/09/erdogan-turkey-constitutional

Turkey is a secular country. Please remove religion item.

Women and men not equal?
In the article it is stated that Erdogan does not believe women and men are equal but merely complementary. For someone who reads this article for a first time, this makes it seem that Erdogan is against equality. Or at least that was my impression when I read it.

The source given is http://www.haberturk.com/polemik/haber/537849-kadin-ve-erkegin-esit-olmasi-mumkun-degil

But there is one issue. In the news article sourced it is never stated that women and men are not equal:

''Başbakan Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Kadın ve erkeğin fiziksel olarak hiçbir zaman eşit olamayacağını belirterek, "Kadın kadındır erkek erkektir. Bunların eşit olması mümkün mü? Bunlar birbirinin tamamlayıcısıdır." dedi''

Here, Erdogan is saying that men and women are physically different. True enough. Not "unequal."

Here Erdoğan clearly says "Kadın kadındır erkek erkektir. Bunların eşit olması mümkün mü? Bunlar birbirinin tamamlayıcısıdır." which literally means "Woman is woman, man is man. Is it possible that thay are equal? They are complementary of each other." The question here is of course retorical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 16:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

''İlköğretimde erkek öğrencilere 20, kız öğrencilere 25 lira, aynı şekilde orta öğretimde erkek öğrencilere 35 lira, kız öğrencilere de 45 lira destek veriyoruz. Bu yardımı, bu desteği anneye veriyoruz, babaya değil. İşte kadın-erkek eşitliğinin istismarını yapanlara söylüyorum. Bak bu sadece bir tanesi. Biz burada anneyi ön plana çıkarırken şefkatte anne, babaya göre daha farklı olduğu için bu adımı, bu tercihi yapıyoruz, istismarını değil. Cennet annelerin ayakları altına boşuna konulmadı."''

Here, he elaborates. Erdogan mentions that the equality of men and women is being abused. He announces that he is giving educational support to children, and that the money the government is giving will be given to women because they are more compassionate -in a motherly sense. He also adds that "Heaven is under the feet of mothers'," a saying well-known in Turkey.

So I believe that some clarification should be added to the article, in the relevant section. It could be mentioned that he believes men and women are physically different, if it is necessary. But overall, I believe this information is irrelevant and saying that he believes men and women are not equal -as in unequal- is damaging.

I apologize if I wrote too much, but I believe it was needed. ---Seljuq--- (talk) 03:54, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want to work something in, go ahead. As you can see above there were some issues regarding the comments when they were added. Some more clarity would be good.--NortyNort (Holla) 06:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I am entirely removing the paragraph from the article until someone manages to write something that explains the issue more OR finds a reliable source that directly agrees with what was said. ---Seljuq--- (talk) 01:01, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Erdogan can not say "women and men are equal" because he is trying to become a leader not only in Turkey also in Islamic world. So with the help of ambiguity he is hiding himself very nicely.

Vandalism
88.226.39.174 is vandalising the page. Please, someone, protect the page and referenced information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 22:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

The contributions and referenced reliable information is continuously being deleted without any explanation. The page is continuously vandalized. Please protect the information in the page. I think there is a way of deleting something from a page and this is by refuting the information which is referenced with reliable sources. Also editing the page has some rules. Anyway, it is not my place to remind these.
 * Inspectortr, please stop the editwar. Your edit is reverted because of WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. --Randam (talk) 17:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have asked for protection of the page and it was accepted. However the page is still being vandalized by registered users. Inspectortr (talk) 20:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said in my previous undoing of your edits, If we start to include everything in the election speeches, we will have a blog not a wiki page. But you still insist to include that "declaration of war against atheism" paragraph like it was a major development. Should we also write in Obama's page that he called Sarah Palin "pig lips", like "declaration of war against women" or "declaration of war against Republicans". Be rational for a second and try to think what should be included in this page and what should not.--Cerian (talk) 21:07, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but what you say is absolutely and indisputably wrong. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, personally, undoubtedly declared all, each and every supporter of the opposition party in his country atheists. This event has no, not a single similarity with the example you have given. Maybe you know what this means, maybe you do not. But this is one of the most "THE MOST" important events in the entire history of the Turkey Republic. Maybe you cannot understand the probable causes and effects of this speech but in Turkey every single person does. Anyway, your reason for deleting this topic is that according to you it is not important; however according to many people it is one of the most important events in the Turkish history. There is no exaggeration in this. It is so important that this information should be inserted on the pages giving information on History of Turkey.Inspectortr (talk) 18:40, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Reflecting a news title into the article falls in line with that Randam said. The section gives an impression that is false in my opinion. If other events fold into the judgment that he is against atheism and a reliable source demonstrates its notability, then I can see inclusion. Otherwise, its a theory and not encyclopedic. The section should be left out and if re-added, I will report it to an administrator. If you have a new proposal place it here. I don't consider the past reverts vandalism.--NortyNort (Holla) 21:58, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you could not understand what is written on the topic discussed. There is no debate on whether he is against atheism or not. I did not write something saying he is against atheism. Erdoğan himself declared a war against atheism and declared all peaople against him as atheists. This is not an opinion, this is an event that took place. An event that took place cannot be called theory. Also you cannot prove or refute an event. That is an event after all. On the other hand, for the edits on the page, first many vandals reverted the page without logging in. Then I had to ask for protection of the page. Then other vandals (or same vandals) made the same vandalism with their user accounts. I do not want to fight with these vandals any more. It is the administrators' duty to fight with them. --Inspectortr (talk) 20:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just because you reference something, doesn't mean it belongs in the article. It is the way the event is spun, perceived, o whether it matters that may or may not make it notable.--NortyNort (Holla) 23:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This issue has already been discussed. Please read above. --Inspectortr (talk) 10:35, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't take this as an attack on yourself, unlike you accuse us of being vandals, but is it fair to call us as such when looked upon your previous contributions, you constantly wrote AKP party members political affiliations as "Tayyibism" and other stuff that doesn't need to be mentioned. To return to topic, I still say nay to changes you constantly try to enforce in this page and I still reserve the same objections I mentioned before.

Also, it's very uncool to personally attack several users who opposed you on this very topic, and threaten them in their user pages.--Cerian (talk) 23:06, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And the addition is not consensus. You reverting it constantly is in fact a form of vandalism and disruptive. Please stop.--NortyNort (Holla) 11:56, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Obama first overseas trip not to Turkey in 2009
Obama's first trip abroad was to Canada, and his first overseas trip was to London, UK. The article incorrectly states Turkey as his first overseas trip.

(209.17.134.61 (talk) 19:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC))
 * To be fair, Canada is not a oversea country. London and Germany-France visits were G-20 and Nato summits, respectively. Although your argument still stands true, after NATO summit he visited Czech Republic. So related section should be changed to "One of the first overseas trip" instead of "the first trip".--Cerian (talk) 21:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The G20 summit was in London. The NATO summit was in Germany and France. The EU summit was in Czech Republic. There was no summit in Turkey. The visit to Turkey was the first overseas bilateral meeting . −Randam (talk) 07:27, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether this visit is Obama's first, second, thirtysixth or last visit is irrelevant to the biography of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Someone should delete this irrelevant statement. Inspectortr (talk) 17:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well tell that to US officials starting from Secretary Clinton, as they are keen on to mention this particular event when ever they want to explain how much Obama give care and attention to Turkey.--Cerian (talk) 19:17, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether US officials starting from Secretary Clinton are keen on to mention this particular event when ever they want to explain how much Obama give care and attention to Turkey is also irrelevant to the this biography page. What Cerian says supports my viewpoint. Someone should delete this irrelevant statement. Inspectortr (talk) 18:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you elaborate more on irrelevance of such a statement?--Cerian (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether the visit is Obama's fist, second, fifth or sixtysixth bilateral meeting is of course an important piece of information; however the place for this information is not this biography page. This is a completely irrelevant statememt in Erdoğan's biography. ( I don't know why I have to explain this in detail, it is pretty clear.) Inspectortr (talk) 21:44, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Propaganda, economy
The whole article is full of propaganda. Imagine if an article about Merkel included the success of German exports, or an article about Hu the economic rise of China. It looks like an election campaign.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.20.31 (talk) 16:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So, your logic is, we should not write United State's surplus years under Clinton leadership, which happened, by your logic, without Clinton's personal initiative. I find it hard to believe that..--Cerian (talk) 20:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It's propaganda if you mention just one side of the story. And this article seriously does that.There is mention of economic growth, but almost no word sell of Goverment Invesments such as the biggest Turkish Company Turk Telekom. It's common to face obsession of state especially on statistics and economic analyzes in Turkey.-- 18:26, 25 Jul7 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.156.143.178 (talk)


 * The article of course looks like a propaganda brochure of a bloody Middle East dictator. Inspectortr (talk) 21:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Invesments is typed like this: "investments". Influential business publications such as The Economist consider the Erdogan's government the most successful in Turkey in decades. http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9116747 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liesbeth98 (talk • contribs) 10:12, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

"Football Player" Culturally Biased
He is noted as being a "football" player To keep with being culturally neutral, shouldn't it be "association football" or maybe "football (soccer)?" This American protests this blatant Soccer imperialism! Anyway I copy and pasted "Footballer" directly out of the David Beckham article.Stardude82 (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Honors, rewards...
Section takes huge chunk of space in the page, considering it doesn't contribute much to biography. I suggest it should have its own page or be minimized and enlarged on readers choice.--Cerian (talk) 20:17, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Foreign Policy
This section needs a huge polishing up. Some of the information written in there may have related to Erdogan "personally" in someway, but almost all of them written about people other than Erdogan itself. Section needs a clean up or moved to AKP's foreign policy achievements or policies.--Cerian (talk) 02:24, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Israel paragraph
This is very biased and only contains recent events. Erdogan's attitude towards Israel only changed since December 2009 when Israel launched attacks on Gaza with white phosporus. Before that, he had been very friendly towards it and even visited it at least once in 2005. Erdogan even invited the President of Israel to address the Turkish parliament which is a gesture not accorded to just about any country leader. In fact, the day before the Gaza assault, Erdogan was acting as a mediator in the peace talks between Israel and Syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serv1203 (talk • contribs) 01:16, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Removed the part where it says terrorists have been shooting rockets into Israel. Whether this is a fact or not is irrelevant. This is section is about Erdogan views and policy towards Israel. Whether it is based on factual logic or not is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.70.76.32 (talk) 17:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Education and languages
1) does anyone have any information about what exact qualification RTE got in Business Administration? Master's, Bachelor's?

2) does anyone have any information about which languages RTE speaks in addition to Turkish? Does he speak English, Arabic (classical? modern?), others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.78.32.22 (talk) 05:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)


 * He cannot speak any foreign language. Inspectortr (talk) 21:14, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry - that previous question was mine - I forgot to sign in. Luzzy fogic (talk) 04:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * He has a vocational diploma for imams and with this "base", he studied 4 years at the Faculty of Economics and Administrative Sciences of Marmara University. It seems to be unclear whether this can be seen as an academic degree. Schily (talk) 16:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Epilepsy
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is epileptic. Inspectortr (talk) 22:05, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * source?--Cerian (talk) 22:57, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Syria
The article does not mention that relationships with Syria got worse after Syrian president used military forces to suppress protests against Erdogan's advices. It's probably never going to be the same between him and Erdogan. I know recent events should be at minimum, but comparing to Egypt paragraph which is nothing but his visit 17 days ago, Syria paragraph looks very outdated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.7.36.179 (talk) 20:28, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I have added information on this issue. Please try to expand/correct what I wrote. Inspectortr (talk) 23:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

This hagiography is completely useless. It looks like political propaganda. Who cares about the list of cheesy honors (the GAddafi Peace Prize!) and fake universities that have given Erdogan honorary doctorates? Get rid of all that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.33.158.121 (talk) 14:07, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

There should be a link between the NATO missiles, chronologically, as Syria protested against these. It does not need to be explained much in this main article, just a chronological link (I can't find it, else I would add it myself) 91.115.75.204 (talk) 19:58, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

How tall is Erdogan?
I heard that he is 193 centimeters tall, is not this unusual for a Turkish person? --46.115.16.95 (talk) 05:11, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Your question is irrelevant since he is not ethnically Turkish. Inspectortr (talk) 13:46, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Dictator Erdoğan is about 183 cm tall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.168.153.163 (talk) 09:30, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We do not talk about a dictator but about a democratically elected Person. --91.6.83.134 (talk) 19:11, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Fooling most of the people is a helpful attribute to be a successful dictator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.124.242 (talk) 06:35, 15 May 2014 (UTC)


 * It is uncommon to list the height for "normal" people anyway. I think the only relevance I've seen where height is mentioned is for boxers and other "martial arts" sport people, as the height reflects reach, and also, up to a point, weight class. 91.115.75.204 (talk) 20:00, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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The only Prime Minister of Turkey who usually goes by his first name
What does it mean exactly - "The only Prime Minister of Turkey who usually goes by his first name"? Is he frequently called "Recep" in the media? Does he allow everybody call him Recep? Is there a source for that? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:06, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah.. Probably someone put it there just to make fun of him. All Turkish politicians go by their surnames, their name preferences are irrelevant. --Cerian (talk) 18:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Children
One of his sons name is Bilal and Bilal's first name is Necmettin. His full name is Necmettin Bilal Erdoğan. I am adding the name "Necmettin".

Awards
I attempted to delete the entire hagiographic section on accolades and awards and was unable to. People, this is Wikipedia, not the Erdogan personality cult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.33.158.121 (talk) 13:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add that it is common to list officially awarded medals, decorations, accolades and such in biography articles for politicians, no matter which country. If you didn't find them in the pages of other politicians you were looking at, it is simply because nobody bothered to add them until now. Listing them here is not a sign of worship, but it shows the support the person has in their own countries and from whom. Whether they deserve the award or not is naturally controversial, but it nevertheless is an relevant piece of information in a biography. Gerald Jarosch (talk) 13:02, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

There is not such as a section as awards on the biogrophy pages of most politicians in Wikipedia. I am going to delete this section. There must be a standard on this issue.Inspectortr (talk) 11:33, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Dictator
According to objective sources, the person is a dictator. Even his supporters aggree, they just see him as a benevolent dictator. However, there is no mention of this issue in the page.


 * Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is a middle east dictator just like Essad, Mubarak and Gaddafi. This should be mentioned in his biography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.250.47.79 (talk) 08:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Signs of authoritarian tendencies is completely different than someone being a dictator. --Cerian (talk) 01:21, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Whatever Erdoğan does or says shows that he is a dictator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.252.59.183 (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I aggree with Cerian. Someone being a dictator is, although not completely, mostly different than signs of authoritarian tendenncies. Therefore saying that Tayyip Erdoğan is authoritarian is not enough. He is a dictator and there is a concensus on this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.30.49.161 (talk) 23:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I tend to disagree. As I wrote before, a dictator is not equal to someone elected by a popular vote whom shows authoritarian tendencies. These two are completely different classifications. --Cerian (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't Hitler elected once too? Apologies to Godwin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.124.242 (talk) 06:37, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The dictator ignores the right of speech of even his close colleagues always using curses and swearwords  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.135.235.118 (talk) 14:24, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The dictator does not stop.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.135.235.118 (talk) 14:33, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The dictator banned alcohol. The link shows only one aspect.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.174.16.203 (talk) 22:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The dictator banished the right of transportation inside Turkey.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.154.59.2 (talk) 20:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The dictator announced his new orders about the press.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.41.69.217 (talk) 15:36, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is definitely a dictator.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.174.17.226 (talk) 20:55, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The dictator, also a former terrorist, banned the Republic Day in Turkey.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.5.117.226 (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Dictator Erdoğan gave the order to use chemical weapons against Turkish citizens in Turkey's capital Ankara in the Republic Day.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.174.63.212 (talk) 14:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Pepper spray is not a chemical weapon but is pepper spray. --91.6.83.134 (talk) 19:16, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The one calling tear gas a chemical weapon would propably call pepper spray a biological weapon... --89.204.154.93 (talk) 02:35, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It has turned out that the Republic President Abdullah Gül, who is a friend of Dictator Erdoğan, was the one who reduced the tension and prevented deaths of thousands by the order of the dictator on the Republic Day. Dictator Erdoğan gave the police and the Governor of Ankara the order "TO KILL CIVILIANS IF NECESSARY" . President Gül cancelled the "KILL ORDER". Dictator Erdoğan gets more and more bloodthirsty these days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 17:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * This person called 51% of Turkish citizens "terrorists". Just liked Essad calling his oppenents "terrorists" and Gaddafi "mice, rats". Their opponents have guns and fight against their governments. Dictator Erdogan's opponents does not even have the right to be opponent. Erdogan is the craziest dictator of 21th century and a threat to regional peacer in the Middle East. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 11:38, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Since when are dictators elected? --91.6.83.134 (talk) 19:16, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Since the beginning of history some of the dictators have been elected by popular vote initially. I guess you question was a joke. Inspectortr (talk) 13:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The dictator has had an argument with a veteran due to dictator's alliance with terrorist Abdullah Öcalan.


 * The dictator ordered his forces to use chemical weapons against Turkish nation in April 1st, 2013, in İstanbul. Journalist Ahmet Hakan Coşkun has proven that the weapons are American products.


 * The dictator threatened all Turkish people who disagrees with his ideas and opposes him on May 20th, 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 19:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Turkish nation hates the bloodthirsty dictator.


 * The dictator is compared to Hitler and Mussolini.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 22:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

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Colorectal Cancer
He has colorectal cancer.


 * Are you his proctologist? --91.6.83.134 (talk) 19:16, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Large amount of Vandalism
When I read this article, many of the references to "Turkey" and "Turkish" were replaced with references to "Greece and "Greek". Someone, help me fix this vandalism! — Preceding unsigned comment added by PMErodganFan (talk • contribs) 00:02, 15 October 2012 (UTC)