Talk:Red House eviction defense/Archive 1

WikiProjects
Since the two Talk pages were merged, there are now a lot of WikiProject banners up above. Do we need them all? Cooperatives? Micronations? That's giving a lot of weight to 'autonomous zone' which is a bit of stretch. This article is about a demonstration. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:35, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree. I'm reducing them and paring down the talk page headers in general. tedder (talk) 03:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 05:03, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Merge
This article seems to focus on the geography and features of the zone itself. I propose merging this information into Portland foreclosure protest which is meant to be more general and describe the months-long demonstration. I'm open to article changes, page titles, etc, but I'm not sure we need two separate Wikipedia articles. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:44, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Putting this on your radar and curious for your thoughts about migrating zone details over to the general protest article. Thanks, --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:51, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Great, I agree a merge would be good. There's also a draft sitting here: Draft:The Red House on Mississippi. I agree that at least for now, it would be best to have one article. "Portland foreclosure protest" sounds good, though I wonder if it's specific enough? I'd be inclined to go with that one, until/unless somebody comes up with a better idea. Pinging, author of the draft. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , I would encourage you both to migrate appropriate details over to Portland foreclosure protest sooner than later, so we don't have editors working on three different pages. Also, if you're generally in agreement with merging into "Portland foreclosure protest" can you please say so we the templates can be removed? Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:54, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree on merging - but the Red House on Mississippi is a prominent catalyst for the movement. A page about "Portland foreclosure protest" can link to the Red House as a pivotal event. I'm following on twitter and observing that Andy Ngo is calling it an AZ, but the protesters not so much. And heads up - this is my very first article in WP. Apologies in advance for my newbie clumsiness. Art to Tech (talk) 20:11, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , Welcome to Wikipedia. I do not object to adding details about the Red House to the Portland foreclosure protest article. By all means feel free to migrate over info. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * : Re: clumsiness, I think it's inherent in a complex and rapidly unfolding topic, it's not you :) Thanks for taking the initiative here and continuing the discussion, topics like this really benefit from a variety of good faith perspectives and wiki experience levels. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 21:55, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

We definitely don't need two (or three, with the draft, or 3.5, with the George Floyd mention), but I'm not happy with either page name. I think it's important to (a) name the place, as it's specific about the Red House, and (b) decide if Wikipedia should refer to it as a protest or an AZ. The protesters are pushing back against AZ and trying to call it "RHED" for "eviction defense", but certainly everything is up in the air right now. Just like the "autonomous" wording is strange, focusing on "foreclosure" is strange to me, because "eviction" is the key issue. Ultimately I'm proposing Red House Eviction Defense or Red House eviction defense, I guess. The reliable sources are all over the place right now, the red house website doesn't mention any terms like blockade, AZ, defense, just mentions of foreclosure in the story. So all of the names mentioned could be justified. tedder (talk) 21:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with your analysis and share your uncertainty . I'd point out that Zane Sparling of the Portland Tribune explicitly retracted his use of the term "Autonomous Zone" via tweet. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 21:48, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it would be worthwhile to merge into the Portland foreclosure protest article for now, as we continue to figure out the best title, and perhaps move that one later once it's further discussed. Seems like the "merge" part of it is pretty straightforward, and we'd be serving Wikipedia's readers best by accomplishing that part ASAP. |Red_House_Autonomous_Zone See here for page views (once they are available). -Pete Forsyth (talk) 21:52, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , I agree, I think for now we need to focus on having a single page, and then I'm totally open to moving/renaming. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:08, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I considered creating the article at Portland eviction protest and agree, the current title may not be ideal. I'm open to discussing name options but prefer we focus on merging first and foremost. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with merging ASAP and expect one or more moves will happen. I'm still trying to figure out the timeline (see my confused edits). Pete, you're right, Zane has been really good on trying to capture the terminology. AB, your article was in place first, so I agree, move the content of this one over to there. I'd suggest merging talk pages too. tedder (talk) 22:19, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , Does an admin need to determine a consensus has been made here and complete the merge(s)? I think there's general support here but I don't feel I have the right to act, and certainly don't want to be accused of doing things prematurely. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:22, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * No admin needed. Just do WP:MERGECLOSE (note step five says "anyone can do it") and then WP:MERGETEXT. I believe there's clear consensus and reason to act quickly, it looks like we're in agreement. tedder (talk) 22:32, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , OK, thanks, I may not have time to do this for several hours so if someone can beat me to the punch, please do! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:36, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Tedder's right, no admin needed. Copying and pasting piece by piece should be fine. I will try and circle back and do a history merge after the fact, but I don't think that part is super critical. The consensus is obvious, and any authorship issues can be addressed on the talk page. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 22:38, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

OK, I performed the merge in a way that will preserve article history. Sorry, I should have communicated that here first -- hope it wasn't too confusing or anybody else following along. All ready to start cleaning up the page now, I'll step back and let others work at that for a bit. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , Thank you so much! Sorry for any edit conflicts, was just trying to help with the cleanup effort. Much appreciated. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:30, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * No, my fault for not communicating better. It's been years since I did a history merge, the tools have changed, and it's always messy (even with newer/better tools). But it's nice to have everybody's contributions properly reflected in the "view history" tab so IMO worth it. And, by the same token, I think I could use the same process to merge Draft:The Red House on Mississippi, which IMO has a really good lead-in/context setting. But I'll hold off for the moment. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 23:32, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for collapsing. I think most of the cleanup is done, but merging is still needed in the "December 2020 escalation" and "Eviction and reoccupation" sections. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:42, 11 December 2020 (UTC)