Talk:Red Rock (bull)

Refs in lead
Just a note that you're not expected to have references in the lead; the general rule is that the lead is a summary of the rest of the article and therefore refs are considered redundant. Most of the time, refs are only included if something is in the lead but not in the body, like a definition. You are doing good work on this! White Arabian Filly Neigh 23:14, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this note. Easier to correct now than later! It will take me longer to correct it in Little Yellow Jacket. Yes, I didn't know at all. Much appreciated. Good to know I'm headed in the right direction on this article since it's my first one writing from scratch. I think I have to be very careful that it doesn't look like I'm copying too closely or paraphrasing too closely from the sources. Thank you! Dawnleelynn (talk) 01:00, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm going to read through this article this weekend thanks to you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles. Also, I noticed that not having Red Rock's full birthdate (only have the year born) keeps the infobox from working correctly-it gives his age died as 0. What do people do in this case? Dawnleelynn (talk) 04:00, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
 * To fix the year, you can type this in the born parameter, and this year in the died parameter. For the second template, the first three spaces are for the deathdate, and the fourth and fifth are month and year born. This should produce the right age he was when he died.  White Arabian Filly  Neigh 19:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Found a new source!
I just found a new incredible source for Red Rock. It's a newspaper article from back in 1987 that had been turned into a pdf and scanned onto one of Red Rock's owner's websites. Quite a long website. It's important because it has a lot of information none of my other sources has and it also contradicts some of my other sources which aren't quite as reliable. Good stuff. There is also some other articles on that site and his other owner's site that has new information. This is really good news because getting information on bulls from back in the day is hard. And this bull is so important to bullriding. People still talk and write about Lane Frost and Red Rock in this industry. They made a big impact on bullriding when they had their Challenge of the Champions. Of course, the man is the real historic figure and is much pretty an icon for bullriding. But I like the bulls too. This is a good reminder to me to be extra sure of the sources used for writing an article. Dawnleelynn (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Prime time
I think this article could go live pretty soon; just do a read-through to tone down the conversational tone for a more boring, "encyclopedic" one (LOL) and trim your use of footnotes 1, 2, 3, and 7 -- If you have multiple sentences that go to the same source, just put the footnote after the last sentence in the string. Also, you don't need two sources for most facts -- the only time you need to do that is if a sentence or phrase has content blended from two sources in a way that you can't footnote them separately without it looking weird. Run earwig on it and if it's clean, then tighten it up, toss the draft tags and use the "move" tab to move it into main space. WAF or I can help if you have problems. Montanabw (talk) 01:33, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Photo possibilities
Hi, here are the URLs for the photo possibilities for Red Rock we talked about for two articles. First, this article, Red Rock. And within this article, the section titled 'Challenge of the Champions' will be pulled out and made its own article Challenge of the Champions that can be referenced from Red Rock and existing article Lane Frost. This is so the content does not have to appear in both articles and be maintained in duplicate. I would just use one photo of both Red Rock and Lane Frost for the Challenge of the Champions article. I will separate out the content into two articles starting now, finish by tomorrow at the latest. It needs to be done so it will be clearer to editors and users who are not as familiar with the content as I am.

Top picture Lane and Red Rock bucking in the Challenge of the Champions in 1988, one year before Lane died. Red Rock died 1994. Bottom picture Lane and Red Rock standing for a portrait shot in 1988.
 * http://www.westernhorseman.com/article/flashbacks/3073-one-on-one

Lane and Red Rock bucking for one of the 7 Challenge of the Champion matches in 1988.
 * http://www.prorodeohalloffame.com/inductees/by-category/livestock/red-rock/

You were right! I found Sue Rosoff Photography old website on the Wayback Machine. She has 5 photos there with no watermark. So the Wikipedia needs the photographer name and date and we have that on this website. There are three photos we could potentially use. Two of Lane and Red Rock, both deceased. And one of Red Rock and his owner John Growney standing behind him. John is still alive.
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20080917175552/http://www.suerosoffphotography.com/photos/Lane%20Frost%20and%20Red%20Rock/

Dawnleelynn (talk) 04:00, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I am pleased to say two photographs have been added to the article. Both from the Rosoff archived website. The portrait in the infobox of Red Rock and Lane Frost. And then about 1/2 way the page, the picture of Red Rock standing end to end, with his owner John Growney standing behind him. dawnleelynn (talk) 04:24, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Red Rock birth place discrepancy
Most of the sources on Red Rock say that his birth place is Sisters, Oregon, and that his mother died giving him birth. Even Find a Grave says so. However, I found a PDF of a newspaper article, and I found it on John Growney Brothers Rodeo web site. The newspaper is ProRodeo Sports News. The article headline is, "Two Rides for Red Rock." Written by Kendra K. Santos, PSN Features Editor. Kendra is now the Director of Communications for the PRCA. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendra-santos-8026ab92/. Very reliable source. There's a photograph of John Growney and Don Kish with Red Rock in between them in 1987. The article is interviewing Don and John.

The article states that Red Rock was born at the Burnt River Ranch in Burns, Oregon. It also states that his mother died when he was a tiny calf, not while giving birth. This source is very specific, giving an exact ranch name, and not only the town name. And the source is a print newspaper, not just some third party site like most of the other places I have discovered as sources. Additionally, the interview was with Red Rock's owners, who should be very reliable. That is why I have decided to respect the print source until some other source can prove otherwise.

Here's the link to the article:


 * http://growneybrothersrodeo.net/documents/prorodeo_1987.pdf

Disregard the first link. Growney redid his web site, and the file is no longer there. However, I did save the site in the Wayback Machine of the Internet Archive, and you can find it here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160421010753/http://growneybrothersrodeo.net/documents/prorodeo_1987.pdf

Also, the discrepancy should be considered resolved now. An authority beyond repute has just published an article that puts forward the fact that Red Rock was born nears Burns, Oregon. This authority is none other than the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association (PRCA) itself. The same organization that founded and manages the ProRodeo Hall of Fame that inducted Red Rock in 1990. If they say Red Rock was born near Burns, Oregon, then you can count on it as fact. Here's the article:

http://www.prorodeo.com/news-display/2017/06/19/red-rock-highlights-st.-paul-rodeo-inductees

dawnleelynn (talk) 16:10, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

dawnleelynn (talk) 03:21, 20 June 2017 (UTC)