Talk:Red star

Questionable Things
The article says:

"The five pointed star is an ancient symbol used in the mystical traditions of Middle Eastern religions (Judaism and Christianity) to represent the heretical idea that the sacred inheres in humanity[citation needed]. It was for this reason that Marx and Engels, as radical humanists, were attracted to the symbol."

I question the use of the term "heretical" idea. I also question the use of radical humanists. I think that as there is no citation that this could be changed to a more neutral position.

The article says:

Since the fall of the Soviet bloc, the red star has been banned in many countries of Central and Eastern Europe (e.g. in Hungary, it is a criminal offense to publicly show or use the symbol). What are the other CEE countries where the red star symbol is illegal? --romanm (talk) 23:53, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It would be nice if we could find out when the star was first used and by which group - did it originate with Bolshevism, or did it pre-date it by many decades (like the use of red, the Internationale, the term "comrade", etc)?-86.133.48.187 12:31, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I have read, that Bolsheviks adopted Red Star from Utopian communist science fiction novel of Bogdanov, "Red Star" (read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bogdanov). Claim that Marx and Engels have used Red Star is unsourced and most likely bullshit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.21.179.44 (talk) 10:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Red Star (novel) is a 1908 Russian novel. The title is an allusion to Mars as the red planet and the socialist ideology of the Martians and the Earthling main character. --Error (talk) 20:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

The article says:

Joseph Stalin was also known for wearing a pendant resembling the red star, as he did at the Tehran Conference in 1943.

It is not just a "pendant resembling the red star" - it's a medal of Hero of the Soviet Union — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.161.4.10 (talk) 23:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation
This article should become a disambiguation page I think. If anyone has the time to do that... Julien Tuerlinckx 19:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Red Star Origins
In the book The Russian Civil War (1) The Red Army (ISBN 1-85532-608-6), the author Mikhail Khvostov says that the Red Star began when Russian units returning from the German and Austrian fronts (in WWI, 1917) flooded into Moscow. To distinguish the local Moscow garrison from this influx of soldiers from the front the Moscow garrison troops were given tin stars (pentagrams) to wear on their hats. When the garrison revolted they painted the tin stars red (for communism/bolshevism etc) and thus it came into being.

Any good?

PJB 17:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)

The red star was not invented by the Russians, it has existed long before in flags New Zealand, football clubs Red Star Saint-Ouen, beers Heineken, etc.

Disambiguation Page
It seems to make sence to me to move this page and have the disambiguation of RED STAR be the first hit for red star.Tombride 23:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I think so too...--77.57.12.113 (talk) 14:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

SoCal Band
There was a statment under see also making note of a Southern California band of the named Red Star I moved this to the Disambiguation Page as it makes the most sense. -lewiscode

Rage Against the Machine
Correct me if I'm wrong....but the use of the red star by Rage Against the Machine was actually the flag of the EZLN and not just a symbolic representation of their ideas (if at all).

Mozilla

 * A five-pointed red star is also used by California, Heineken, Mozilla, and Macy's, but without any socialist connotation.

Sure about that? Mozilla was quite open in its use of Communist imagery in the days before 1.0. Marnanel 18:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If you have a source, that would be a valuable addition.209.59.36.99 15:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * JWZ wrote a blog post describing the history of Mozilla branding. "To that end, the branding strategy I chose for our project was based on propaganda-themed art in a Constructivist / Futurist style highly reminiscent of Soviet propaganda posters." "Yes, I absolutely branded Mozilla.org that way for the subtext of 'these free software people are all a bunch of commies.' I was trolling." "I'm not sure how much more explicit I could have made the gag than the t-shirts we gave away at our launch party that said PARTY MEMBER!"
 * Here's another early Mozilla image, showing workers in Lenin caps saluting the red star of Mozilla. There was nothing subtle about it.  They didn't just happen to also use a red star for their logo.  They stole the entire visual style and symbolism of early-20th-century Soviet propaganda, and then admitted that's what they did.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.109.4.101 (talk) 19:39, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

A Meaning of Red Star
The article claims that red star is a simbol of communism, but this is not quite true. Red star was used before the rise of the communism, one of the best examples is Californian flag with a red star; so it would be better to say that red star represents freedom or fight for freedom, instead of communism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by G-Mac (talk • contribs) 13:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

The Red Star is the symbol of Socialism itself. Communism is extreme socialism therefore this symbol is obviously used to represent their socialist ideals. To say the red star is a communist symbol therfore isn't really true but is used in conjuction with communism for their socialist ideals.Xangel 06:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The red star is not only a symbol of Socialism, but of many other things: it has existed long before communism became popular in the flags of New Zealand, on the logos of football clubs such as Red Star Saint-Ouen and of beers, e.g. Heineken, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.57.2.2 (talk) 15:37, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

okay, and...
to communists, communism IS the fight for freedom. so.....

Slavia Prague
Football club Slavia Prague is using red star as logo since 1892 and is probably only known usage of the symbol unrelated to communism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.102.146.193 (talk) 22:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And what about Velež Mostar?161.53.130.73 (talk) 11:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * note: "unrelated to communism" and "1892" (predates communism). Velez Red Star is communist symbol just like other clubs mentioned

My deletion of Macy's using red star
Good evening comrades! I recently was told not to edit this page and add the fact (not bias) that Macy's has recently adopted the red star as its corporate logo. I applaud Macy's corporate wigs for opening their eyes to the plight of our fellow worker and using their symbol as a welcome sign to all the socialist in Wikipedia. Now delete my contribution to this page and deny the fact, but Macy's does use the red star that means they either embrace socialism or are just plain ignorant to the fact for what it has been associated for the past 90+ years (give or take a few decades for all the "fact checkers" in our wikiality). Thank you for giving us a forum to express the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.110.170.126 (talk) 05:29, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Macy has been using the Red Star since forever (and long before the soviet union), it has nothing to do with politics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1812:6:DB00:4CB7:6147:FF7F:A8CD (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Minor use pre-1917
I don't have the source handy, but I believe a few American military aircraft were marked with red stars as a national symbol briefly, before the other connotations came into play. A2Kafir (and...?) 16:10, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have the source. See below "The US Army Against Pancho Villa". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:42, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

ECHR and EU
The ECtHR is not an EU institution but a Council of Europe institution (bigger than the EU, includes Russia). Furthermore its decisions do not strictly overrule member state's laws, the member state must still act ot bring its laws into line with ECtHR decisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.153.225 (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Brazil?
The text reads "In Brazil, however, the red star remained as it was". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 10:29, 30 September 2009 (UTC) Is the text referring to Panama???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

The U.S. Army Against Pancho Villa (1916)
"http://theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft-articles/23234-national-markings.html?garpg=10#content_start"

Japan first air markings in 1915????
Dubious. According to "flagspot.net" the japanese aircraft in 1915 bore a red star on a white cirle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "http://flagspot.net/flags/jp.html#roundel15" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 11:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

A Red Can Be Patriotic
A Red Star doesn’t mean what you think it might. As many of you know I am running for the 8th District State Senate in Eastern Jackson County MO. Our campaign team tied red star shaped balloons to campaign signs as a reminder for people to get out and exercise their right and freedom to vote. As a United States Marine I proudly served my country for 2 tours in Vietnam spending 77 days in foxhole at the battle of Khe Sanh and I worked nearly 27 years as a MO State Trooper. Public service and profound patriotism runs through my blood. Nothing other than love for our great country and democracy was symbolic of these balloons.

Gary Dusenberg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dusenberg (talk • contribs) 21:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Symbol of anti-fascist partisans during WW2
Red Star is a symbol of Yugoslav Partisans and their struggle against fascism and occupation (and in Slovenia against an attempt of annihilation of Slovene people). Partisans wore red stars as identification (on whatever uniforms or other dress they managed to get during the war). The whole country is full of monuments to the victims of fascism with red stars:

Monument 1

Monument 2

Also when Slovenia celebrates important events from WW2, banner holders of WW2 units attend, with the banners and flags:

Banners 1

Banners 2

Banners 3

It will never be banned. Žarišče (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Royal Order of Spain (1808)
By king -or puppet king- Joseph I of Spain, Napoleon's elder brother. "http://www.regimientosdeamerica.com/catalogo/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=229". Military and civilian reward. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 19:01, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cultura/Rijksmuseum/Amsterdam/encuentra/retrato/oculto/Goya/elpepucul/20110919elpepucul_5/Tes" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 19:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

New Year tree usage
I added a new section to add some basic information about its usage in Russia on New Year trees, which I think should be mentioned somewhere, along with an interesting picture. I'm not sure if the history of its usage as a holiday symbol has been specifically studied (perhaps it started around 1935, when the New Year holidays were allowed to be celebrated again?), but the Russian New Year tree article features a few photographs. I know it's not a very nice section as it stands, but I think this should be mentioned and I couldn't find a way to fit it into any of the existing sections. Esn (talk) 01:48, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Number of Examples
Given the prevalence of the red star as a symbol in socialist countries, there are A LOT of examples that could be considered relevant for the various subsections on this page. That having been said, it is probably not useful to have an exhaustive list of examples, especially when the symbols used are so similar to each other (such as the gallery of flags of Soviet Republics, or of Republics of Yugoslavia). I would be in favor of adopting some sort of guidelines for how many examples to include for various sections, and how to prioritize which sorts of symbols are included, particularly as WP:IG doesn't really provide any guidance for this case. What do other people think? Rosguill (talk) 22:47, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, how things look now, they are all there. If we choose a few, there will be endless edit-wars with people replacing ones by anothers (be it flags or coats of arms) and if reverted asking why one is more important than the other... FkpCascais (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm actually not quite sure they're all there. Moreover, the Yugoslav section currently contains the proposed flag of an SR that was never even used. The sections for sports teams and revolutionary movements could likely have dozens (if not hundreds!) more examples. Rosguill (talk) 20:25, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Italian Partisans Flag too
Italian Brigate Garibaldi (1943-1945) partisans organization had a red star in the centre of the italian flag, defaced of any fascist or monarchic symbol. See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigate_Garibaldi --147.162.48.1 (talk) 09:17, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

A definite article before Red Star
This article uses the indefinite article a in the intro. Whereas Swastika uses the, and Taegeuk begins with no article. Shouldn't there be uniformity?--Adûnâi (talk) 14:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , we should follow whichever convention is used more frequently by reliable sources. Based on a glance at what's currently cited, it seems like a slim majority for "a red star". A further grammatical motivation for why this would be the case is that while swastika and taegeuk are both foreign words (or at least loan words), red star is a phrase in English and thus people may be inclined to treat it differently. signed,Rosguill talk 15:56, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

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