Talk:Red vs. Blue/Archive 2

-The Character Bios are pretty clutter-y for the main page of a series. Ideas are all over for what to do. For example, instead of full Bios, just provide the groups, and list their members. Move all of what's now the Bio section to a seperate page, and link each member to their Bio on the Bio page. Much cleaner for someone just popping onto the page, then fans can dig further. Anyone have some spare time?

-Eh, one of the biggest potential uses of this could be simply figuring out what happens in each episode, so that you don't have to download 5 different ones before you find the one you want. I think that we should go episode by episode. -- Chris Drostie 21:27, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * -Since there are already Episode Summaries, someone interested in older features like "throwaway characters" and "dedicated noises" could do lists, a la pages like Star Trek. Then people can go crazy with detail if they want- so long as the list remains well-formatted and informative.

Characters page
Whoever said that Doc is a enemy is wrong the "Common enemies" section should be reedited back to unaffilated.
 * Done.

Dedicated noises section
Is it really needed?--DooM Drat 05:04, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Since it's gone, no. As stated above, perhaps fans of this sort of thing could do a list?

Tucker rules haha!!!

Character Bios: Too Big?

 * Am I the only one who thinks they're unnecessarily comprehensive?
 * I've done some trimming and rewording on the characters--DooM Drat 17:41, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Title
I see that in the poster, it's Red vs. Blue, not Red vs Blue. - 68.23.42.11 04:15, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It's fanart that was part of a series of HUDless recreations of RvB pieces in HaloPC, culminating with this "group shot". Although RedvsBlue is a more stylistic choice, Red vs. Blue is a more "formal" choice, and probably didn't pass through the maker's mind when doing the picture.

Throwaway Characters?
Should Phil and Jimmy have Character bios? They were more like throwaway characters, there for one episode or a quick gag. Viridis 13:22, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Phil and Jimmy were trimmed, along with much more.

Should Phil and Jimmy be added back in now that we have a seperate section for all the characters or are they not important enough? It's interesting to note that we kept Captain Flowers even though he like the other throwaway characters appeared only once and has been mentioned once by Tucker. Just some thoughts. If people want to add them back in, I can do that. Let me know. --LifeStar 18:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * We learn very little about Phil and Jimmy. Captian Flowers, on the other hand, is much more defined.--DooM Drat 04:14, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, the descriptions of guest/extra characters are so streamlined, it's not as if it would hurt. Describing Captain Flowers, though he is a more developed character, as the mellow Captain of Blue team who died before the series started isn't much more of a description than Phil or Jimmy would need.

ViewTrix, please sign your name on your comments. Anyhows, I thought it would be a good idea back then, but seeing as how long of a list we have for characters, the addition of these two may not be as important. Flowers I can understand b/c his character pivots a lot of the main characters, such as Church and Tucker. --LifeStar 21:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Organization
I did some trimming. Cut about 3 KB off the page.--DooM Drat 05:21, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * If anyone wants to pitch in and continue the improvements, I've thrown ideas all over.

Season Four announced
The fourth season was announced for August 29th on the website yesterday. I'll leave it to someone else to decide how to incorparate this info into the article. Iron Ghost August 8th
 * Done.

Halo Machinima
Note: I posted this on the Machinima discussion but no one discusses there.

Im thinking that Halo machinima should get its own article. Mainlyu because if you look online you can find alot of it. Does anyone agree with this? -- Psi edit

different cover
why did they change the cover of red versus blue.
 * The original image (I believe) wasn't official. I don't know about this new one, but it's more relevant anyway. O'Malley may be dead, and now we have the GREAT DESTROYER as the common enemy. By the way, for the information of others, the reason I had reverted the edit that said that the figure in the background was the GREAT DESTROYER was that I browse with images off as a habit, and didn't notice that the picture had been changed for a few days.--DooM Drat 09:40, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

I dont think its more relevant because the great destroyer has only had 5 seconds on screen. Psi edit
 * Yes, but I think we can safely assume that He/She/It will have slightly more screentime in Season 4.--DooM Drat 17:03, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ok Im not going to argue but isnt there the "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" issue?

I kinda liked the old poster better. The characters were lined up in a close-up shot and facing towards the camera, which gave the poster a more dynamic look. However, it's not a big deal for me, and since the poster was apparently replaced by the dude who actually made them and is giving permission for free use, I'll differ to his judgment. Joylock 1:11, 14 September 2005

General cleanup
I'm going to go over this page a little. The style and grammar are horrible. I'll try to leave the content alone, though. --Khaim 16:10, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

favourite character?
which is you favourite character?

Pece Kocovski 05:23, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

It used to be Tucker. But now hes taking a little stupid (as the article says. "a wee bit obsessed with woman") Simmons seems to be the only character acting smart so I guess hes my favorite for now.

Simmons. I can relate, plus he is the most human character tied with Church.

Church. He's the most human and the only one who's stayed funny throughout the entire series. bob rulz 04:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Trimming
The article is in need of some more trimming. Try to cut a few kilobytes off of it. I'm not going to touch it, as I just got Java Development Kit working on my machine, and I've gotta start learning up if I'm going to have a hope in hell of doing a Java assignment and a test next week.--DooM Drat 13:14, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

suggestion
shouldn't there also be a episode guide for the "PSA" public service announcment and sponcer video's?

Pece Kocovski 04:15, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * That's a pretty good idea, but it's harder to make a comprehensive guide for them since, unlike the episodes, they're not numbered so it's hard to know how many there are out there floating around, and in what order they go in. If someone more knowledgable than me would like to make one, that'd be great though.

Joylock 12:45, 22 September 2005 (CTC)


 * That's not really a problem - Dimono's transcript site is pretty comprehensive - but there's no real "plot" in those so it's hard to make a sensible paragraph out of it, and also the sponsor only videos shouldn't be transcribed IMHO, they ruin the partial concept of sponsorship. // Gargaj 12:16, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Great Destroyer
Shisno == Human != Alien ==

Apparently (EP62), "shisno" is human - in which case the Great Destroyer is still unknown. Who's willing to edit the whole article? :) // Gargaj 17:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)


 * 'Shisno' does not specifically mean human, it's a general insult that gary calls the team-members some times. Check out ep.53->55 (not sure which one) for the full description - Welshy 01:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

who got rid of the other informaton
about Honk-Honk "THE GREAT DESTROTER" the one about the reclaimer you know, before when Honk-Honk was just the great destroyer and the third paragraph was about the reclaimer, ETC?

Also shouldn't Honk-Honk be counted as main character now?

Pece Kocovski 06:33, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I put it back to which I assume is correct since Honk-Honk is apparently the only survivor of the alien race that built Gary and the Great Destroyer just might be Caboose or someone else. // Gargaj 14:58, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Debatable on the final identity of the GREAT DESTROYER
There has been a recent upsurge on those who believe that Tucker or the blue alien might be the great destroyer. The only problem with this is that neither have displayed any of the actions that would lead to Gary's GREAT DOOM. Another thing, Tucker, though he does own the energy sword now, he is referred to as a hero according to the alien (relunctantly), which makes it unlikely that this means he's the great destroyer. We will have to wait and see who it really is, but please, don't add in assumed theories when it's still unknown. We don't even know what the alien's name is because he's only been referred to as "Honk-Honk" once, and afterwards all the characters still refer to him as the "alien". Nit-picky maybe, but it will save those of us who make edits a lot of re-editing if those assumptions are wrong.

LifeStar


 * Nnnnnice but does every second word has to be bold? // Gargaj 18:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Caboose originally called the alien "Crunchbite." Also used more recently in episode 65. Lugin 18:21, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but the rest of the team still calls him "the alien". Caboose is the only one who is using that name, and considering Caboose's grasp of reality is that firm, until the rest of the team begins calling it with a common name besides "the alien", I think we should hold off from naming him immediately. If not, we'll be constantly updating his name with every change the creators are doing. This may actually be a purposeful spoof by Rooster Teeth, so the safe approach is "the alien" name. User:LifeStar--LifeStar 19:13, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

General rant

 * What an awful writeup. Comprehensive, yes. But could we include a few more forms of "to be". The writing reads like limp prose choking on its own spit.
 * Um... what are you talking about? Joylock 10:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC).

Featured article?
I'm thinking that with work, this has potential to become a featured article. However, it would require that we be serious about it. I took parts of the charachters bios (the first few/a few sentances) and posted them here. Though they could maybe be trimmed a bit, I think that something similar to what I've done should be here. Thoughts?Dr. B 05:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that it would be nice that Red vs Blue become a featured article, but I disagree on adding the character bios to the main page again. People on our discussion page have expressed in the past that they thought the page was ridiculously long, and that ws when we had the bios on the main page.  It made things extremely difficult to edit and reverse vandalism that may had occurred.  The move was to have a seperate bio page and to make the main page as concise as possible.  Even now there's been some talk that the main page is still too long.  Though I appreciate your efforts, the main page can't just grow by 2+ pages!--LifeStar 14:43, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What if we were to have one or two sentences for each charachter? It wouldn't lengthen the article that much, but it would give some information for those who are glancing through. Then they wouldn't have to go to the main bio page to find out who they are, but they could if they wanted to.Dr. B 16:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe...one of my hesitations about these bios is that people will constantly want to update them. With the current method, vandalisms and stupid info being added to this page has decreased...unfortunately the # of vandalisms on the BIO page has increased... grrr.  I think this is the inherent problem with a current series, we can't set things in stone, but wet clay.  I was even thinking of maybe reducing the summaries on the episode summary section to save space.
 * I like the idea of putting very small bios on the main article. When Dr.B put the opening sentences in from the character page, they read better from an NPOV frame of mind. I can't really offer more input at the moment, It's really late (or rather, early), and fatigue is dulling my brain. I'm working on some modifications to the main article, but that'll have to wait until after I've gotten some sleep. Feel free to edit in the meantime, I'll incorporate any changes.--Drat (Talk) 17:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What I'm talking about are sentances that could only really change if something really big happened. For example, for Griff, you might put "Grif is the wisecracking loudmouth of the Red team. He is self-centered, acerbic, lazy, and somewhat cowardly." That's the first couple sentances, sums him up in a nutshell, and requires little to no update as long as his charachter remains pretty much the same
 * That seems reasonable. It seems to be the general format used by other wiki pages about television shows and the like. I think the trick is to make it clear that, if you want to edit the bio, go to the character page instead of messing with the general info on the main article. Joylock 7:30, 7 December 2005 (UTC).
 * What this article really needs is an official image and/or logo. If nothing can be found, or is allowed for use currently, we could ask Rooster Teeth for something.--Drat (Talk) 06:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose we could use one of the DVD cover images. Although I much prefer something along the lines of the unofficial "group shot" image we've currently got. Or, maybe we could use an official DVD cover image for the main page, and a "group shot" image for the characters article? Just a thought. Joylock 7:30, 7 December 2005 (UTC).
 * I wasn't able to find much on the official site. I've fired off an email to Rooster Teeth to ask about them sending me some official images to use (or even uploading them themselves).--Drat (Talk) 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Not sure what to do about this bit: "The source of RvB's humor is its clever scripting, a cast of characters who are eccentric in many diverse ways, and the occasional sight gag. A few later episodes of the series have specifically spoofed the Back to the Future movie series, with time-traveling events retconning and re-retconning previous events over and over. " I've removed it from my edit-in-progress. Can it be cleaned up and NPOV'ed? The bit I've bolded seems to have doubtful salvageability, though.--Drat (Talk) 11:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

My big edit is done for now. But because of the edit conflict crap with that IP user who made two stupid edits to the article just when I was finally submitting the changes, I simply started a new edit session and pasted my changed version in, but forgot to untick minor edit. Small problem, but annoying.

Anyway, I've reintroduced the character summaries; fix those as you see fit. I'm too tired at the moment to mess with them. I've moved some stuff around. I deleted some stuff that seemed no good or redundant. I've added to the season summaries, for accuracy, if at a slight cost in brevity. Trim those while trying to retain accuracy. I've made changes to the use of headings, after taking a good look at the Stargate SG-1 article, and added a few Main article: whatever s, an idea I got from the Something Awful article. As for the Infobox, I've removed the character names, to reduce clutter, and arranged the real person names in alphabetical order by surname. I might make improvements to the Machinima Infobox template, but that will have to wait until I've slept. The new commercial releases section needs work. We should also work on the other RvB pages. We need some review links and quotes from same, with sources, of course. I really hope that today won't be a scorcher like yesterday, otherwise I won't get much sleep and won't be much use later on. Goodnight.--Drat (Talk) 17:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I like most of your edits, but I still have my reserverations about the character bios. Maybe it's just that we have so many characters on Red vs Blue, but I wish we could somehow make the article look shorter or not give the deel of a very long document. Either case, I did contribute some edits to the Red Army section and maybe I'll work on the Blues later. Either case, I like most of Drat's edits and I think it's coming along fine. --LifeStar 18:25, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

who changes the poster image?
well?

Pece Kocovski 06:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I did. I felt that if this article is ever going to be featured (see above), it may as well have an official image, as opposed to a fan-made one. I asked Rooster Teeth for an official image, and recieved a link which I will keep secret, at their reqiest.--Drat (Talk) 09:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

its a good image but the previous one had all(regular) the characters?

Pece Kocovski 01:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Adding events to season summary during production
We need to keep this in check. I just changed/added information from episode 68 to the season four summary, but in general, we need to avoid speculation and assumptions. First, I just want to say that I havn't seen much of that, but I did have to change the statement that Church returned from Zanzibar to Blood Gulch in 68 to a Church "from the past" shows up, as in the episode it's implied (but not fully given) that this Church who attacks Sarge is not the Zanzibar Church we've been following since the end of episode 53, but perhaps one who came to the future through more time travel. However, since Rooster Teeth like to keep things surprising, we can't fully assume that, so I added the "from the past" in quotation marks to try and keep the Wiki reader knowing what we know. I realize that in this case, a contributor just didn't catch that this Church is 99% not likely to be the Zanzibar Church (though, again, we can't be sure, so I didn't put that in the article, just the "from the past" thing), but I just want to make sure that we keep things from going out of hand.


 * Actually, I would think the prevailing interpretation based on what we know so far would be the one that was originally there. Remember, Church (the one at Zanzibar) was the only Blue who did not go with the others on the alien's quest. He obviously does not recognize the now-mostly-blue Simmons, and thinks that he has met someone native to the future, whereas the Red vs. Blue crew came from what would be considered the original "present". Thus, he introduces himself as "from the past" as a relative indication to the "new Blue". Remember, all of the characters arrived in the future via time travel, so, until another Church is introduced, I think it's probably most conservative to note that this is the same Church as the one that we've seen since the end of Season 3. It would probably be more confusing to imply that further time travel has occurred when it may not have. I would go for something like "Tex soon decides to go along with them, while Church apparently makes his way back to Blood Gulch." TKD 04:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with TKD, the theory that this Church is the one from Zanzibar is probably the best understanding of what happened in episode 68 when we combine the fact that Sheila was personally instructed by Church to go to sleep and probably guard BG during those 800+ years the teams had disappeared. It would make sense that Church would be the one that heads back to Blood Gulch, and maybe he was talking with Sheila before he came and knocked out Sarge.  That episode never explained where the heck was Sheila when Sarge and Donut casually walked to the Blue Base.  --LifeStar 14:59, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Episode 69 was just released to sponsers. It looks like the Church in episode 68 is indeed the Church from Zanzibar.  He knows who Donut (Pre-future appearance, Church only knew Donut as the "pink-guy") and the rest of the Reds are.  Interesting he didn't ask where was Simmons and it's left questionable whether Church is beginning to pick up that Simmons is indeed a red soldier, not the future soldier he originally thought.  --LifeStar 18:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * (This is the guy who you all replied to.) Yeah, I was going to offer an apology for the mess up earlier today, but the school's IP address has been banned from editing because of students "vandalising" articles. I'm also a sponsor, and have seen 69, which basically confirms that it is Church from Zanzibar. For some reason, the way he the dialogue was written in 68 had me believe it was a Church from time travel, especially since it's kind of odd that Rooster Teeth didn't have Church just say he was going back to Blue base, or show him coming back. I thought that the fact that Church was just suddenly there at Blue base meant a past Church had been hanging out there (and presumably making the base improvements). Anyway, the good side of this is that it's an example of how we need to look out for and avoid slip-ups when assuming anything in mid-season write-ups. My small defense is that I didn't really assume anything and just kind of misheard/misinterpreted the dialogue, but nevertheless, I made an assumption, and you guys corrected it. Let's keep this up. ...The correcting, not the messing up, I mean.


 * Hey dude, if you can, can you alert your school's admins about the blocking on your school IP address? I'm part of the CVU here and we've been trying to work with the admins at schools where we receive a lot of vandalism to put an alert out and see what they can do to prevent this kind of abuse on your systems.  It's a shame that when we block out IPs, it also prevents normal users from doing anything useful.  Anyhows, yes, if you can, please contact them.  --LifeStar 21:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Progress.
Can't think of a proper title. Not important anyway. The page is coming along great. Just want to remind people that we should obviously also improve the other pages as much as we can, namely the episode guides and the character page. I will try my hand at converting the wikiquote page to the TV format. Oh yeah, I'm about to do some work on the third season episode guide, just as I did to the other three earlier, so don't touch that for an hour or so, to avoid conflicting.

Also, should we move the episode guide pages as such?:

Red vs Blue episode guide: Season 1 -> Red vs Blue episode guide: Season one

I think it'll look better.--Drat (Talk) 11:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks like the precedent on Wikipedia is to prefer the numbers themselves in the page titles rather than spelling them out? TKD 12:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah well. I'm finished with the Season 3 article, by the way.--Drat (Talk) 14:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It is obvious from episode 70 that the Church is from Zanzibar, and that he know's the "blue" is Simmons. I've added the Quest events from 69/70, maybe some one else could the add the happenings of the reds? - Welshy 21:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I've finished converting the wikiquote page to the TV standard.--Drat (Talk) 06:47, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Use of wikilinks
I forgot to mention this before. How should we go about the use of wikilinks? There are probably quite a few more things that need to be wikilinked, but we don't want to go overboard. And what of repeat use of terms? The article is long enough (and will be longer, once I get around to the new sections) that linking the same thing more than once seems justified.--Drat (Talk) 08:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I say we link everything except prepositions and definite/indefinite articles. ;-) Actually, the Manual of Style (links) suggests that there should be no more links than lines, that no more than 10% of the words are part of links, and that only important links be repeated if a subsequent occurrence is "distant" from the preceding one. What qualifies as "distant" is unclear; in my (inexperienced) mind, more than a couple of large unrelated sections or so is probably reasonable. TKD 09:30, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

New sections
Added the new sections I was working on. They concern the method in which the show is produced, and the impact the show has had. There currently isn't anything on the writing and audio. Can someone research that and write something? I wouldn't be surprised if there's something on the DVDs. But info from the Internet would be handier.--Drat (Talk) 19:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll put up something for writing and audio. Viewdrix
 * There. The only thing I'm unsure of keeping included is the whole paragraph in the Writing section about how Burnie Burns was having trouble writing around the big events of the Halo 2 release and episode 50 in season 3. I thought it was an interesting observation that fitted well in the Writing section, but if someone finds it irrelevant to be in the Production section, the options are to, of course, slim it down, make a new section for it, or cut it. Be my guest. Viewdrix

Spelling/usage
Just wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page about this: Since RvB is an American creation, with the characters (sans Wyoming :)) speaking American English, we should probably stick to American English in the RvB articles, according to Style. TKD 00:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I didn't know we were using different variations. What words were different?  --LifeStar 15:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Armor/armour, behavior/behaviour, -ize/-ise come to mind (these still exist, particularly in the season 2 and 3 pages). Also, I noticed a few cases where "team" was treated as a plural noun (e.g., "The Red team have..."). Granted, these are probably from pretty old versions of the pages, but I wanted to make a note of it going forward. -- TKD 03:20, 20 December 2005 (UTC)