Talk:Redemptoris Mater (seminary)

Page naming and quality
This page referes both to an encyclical and a group of missionary seminaries. Clearly, it should refer to only one. I want to start a page for the encyclical itself, because it is in fact a key encyclical. So there are two options:


 * a. We get a page for the encyclical and a page called "Redemptoris Mater (seminaries)"


 * b. We get a page for the seminaries and a page called "Redemptoris Mater (encyclical)"

I prefer option "a" because the page now starts by saying:


 * ''Redemptoris Mater is most widely recognized as the title of a Mariological encyclical by Pope John Paul II of 1987-03-25."

So the encyclical is the more recognized item.

Unless there are objections within a few days I will perform a disambiguation and there will be a clear reference to the seminaries at the top of the encyclical page as well. Thanks History2007 (talk) 02:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, I almost prefer "Redemptoris Mater Seminary".
 * Ncwfl (talk) 01:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, great. I will go ahead with the move. History2007 (talk) 03:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Almost the entire article is copied from Neocatechumenal Way article. -- Rpgon2 (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Seminaries Redemptoris Mater around the World
The section "Seminaries around the world" lacks sources and seems not to be of particular encyclopedic interest. -- Rpgon2 (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

RMS: Neocatechumenal Seminaries
A few notes to clarify why it is not fully correct to describe them only as "international, diocesan, missionary" seminaries.

Redemptoris Mater Seminaries (RMS) are actually Neocatechumenal Way Seminaries, because they only accept priestly vocations coming from Neocatechumenal Way (NCW).

RMS were started by Francisco (Kiko) Argüello and Carmen Hernández for NCW priestly vocations. Why they needed "special" (RMS) seminaries? If you want to help "normal" seminaries, then you do not need to create new seminaries.

The only reason to create RMS is that Kiko and Carmen think that diocesan and missionary seminaries are not good for NCW priestly vocations. If they were good, then all NCW vocations would have entered normal seminaries and religious communities.

Since they were started by Kiko and Carmen, then RMS follow NCW guidelines. If this was not the case, then NCW priestly vocations have no reason to prefer a RMS instead of a normal seminary.

Thus, priests coming from RMS are more "Neocatechumenal-oriented" than NCW priests coming from normal seminaries. This means that RMS priests will most likefully support NCW communities.

Official statements describe RMS as "international, missionary, diocesan" seminaries: while this does not formally contradict the above notes, what attitude will have NCW priests coming from RMS towards anything that does not follow NCW guidelines?

Finally, RMS priests have often been cause of divisions and sect-like behaviour, as stated -for example- by Japan Bishop Conference and Australian people (already cited in footnotes).

Summary

 * 1) RMS are neocatechumenal seminaries
 * 2) RMS began because Kiko and Carmen do not trust diocesan seminaries >
 * 3) RMS follow NCW guidelines instead of diocesan
 * 4) RMS priests are not willing to waste their time on non-Neocatechunnal affairs
 * 5) RMS priests cause the same problems that NCW causes worldwide. 

Thus, I am updating the correct description. -- Rpgon2 (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

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corrections; Redemptoris Mater Seminaries are, as the pope says, diocesan and missionary seminaries. Not secular seminaries which you are accusing of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.158.141 (talk) 15:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC) i pray that we do not get more biased definitions and descriptions on publicly viewed pages. in order to understand your problems with the redemptoris mater seminaries and the NCW, please refer to its statutes so as not to judge people who are, i assume such as you, under the foot of the one cross of Christ.

Hope that we can avoid an editing war by clearing up some facts (I quote anonymous contributions and my rosponse to them): However the "priest" formed in the Redemptoris Mater seminaries are highly questionable as their formation is based on the teachings of the Neocatechumenal Way which in 1995 the Italian Passionist priest and theologian Enrico Zoffoli published a critique of the Way that accused the movement of heresy: “Their doctrine is seriously compromised with errors against fundamental dogmatics of the Church, the Popes and the Councils.”
 * The formation in Redemptoris Mater is not based on "the teachings of the Neocatechumenal Way." They attend classes together with other diocesan seminarians, as stated earlier in the article. On top of that, Fr. Zoffoli send his critique to about 30 bishops and cardinals, including the prefect of CDF, Vicar General of Rome, and the president of the Italian Episcopal Conference. The only response he got was urging him to stop spreading his personal judgments. This information is repeatedly removed from the article by an anonymous wikipedian from Sydney, in order to give impression that an opinion of a priest 25 years ago is worth more than opinion of over a hundred of bishops opening 'Redemptoris Mater' in their dioceses, or approval of the contemptuously called "teachings of the way" by five Congregations of the Roman Curia. Pahario (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Parishes where the "priest" have been sent to have experienced that these "priest" were sent to parishes mainly to initiate and build Neocatechumenal Way communities while subtly destroying the traditional Catholic faith and parish.
 * Other accusation that are not supported by any references or statistics, doing injustice to hundreds of priests. Pahario (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Characteristics
I removed a portion of this section because of the following reasons. Ncwfl (talk) 07:51, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) Information did not have a reliable citation.
 * 2) The existing citation was a personal opinion from 25 years ago.
 * 3) All priests from seminaries are ordained by the diocesan bishop up to the pope himself. It is logically inconsistent to believe that the church, in 120 diocese, is ordaining priests that are heretical. That belief is at odds with the action of the catholic church in the last 50 years.


 * I wanted to make a note that I made a mistake in editing the page from mobile. That is why there are duplicate entries for my changes. Ncwfl (talk) 06:48, 24 February 2020 (UTC)