Talk:Reggae/Archive 1

UK Reggae
This article is heavily incomplete. It needs a good section of how reggae developed in the UK, where a lot of Jamaicans live. Especially because today, most of the (roots)reggae comes out of the UK, whereas in Jamaica it's more dancehall nowadays. I thinkyou can't just denie the part of reggae wich is the most alive. Arian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.41.232.30 (talk) 02:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Soundsystems?
Hi. In the article a read nothing about the 'soundsystems' wich are a crucial part of how reggae developed, spread and gained popularity within Jamaica. Why not? Arian

Original talk
Ska and rocksteady are actually the precursors to reggae. Can they really be qualified as sub-genres?


 * Hi, I asked myself the very same question when I first put the box together. See here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music_genres for my question about this. The thing is though, I think the box is about reggae in its broadest sense, and in that sense Ska and Rocksteady are a type of reggae music. I asked myself, when I'm filing my music, where do Ska and Rocksteady go? In my collection, they go in amongst all the other Reggae records. Do feel free to change this though - I'm still unsure about this myself --Bwmodular 14:47, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm pretty new to wiki, and I am defender of the ska, but hey, most people associate ska & rocksteady as being a form of reggae. In retrospect, I say let it stand, because if you go to Ska, it does say that it was the origin of reggae. I'm not familiar enough with Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music_genres, so it has given me something new to learn --Isol8d 08:48, 7 Apr 2004

There are two meanings of the word reggae, one being essentially a synonym for Jamaican music, and the other referring to a specific genre that evolved out of ska and rocksteady. Since there's already an article on Jamaican music in general, the first paragraph should make it clear how the word is used and then focus on the more specific term, IMO. Tuf-Kat 16:28, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Whenever I get the chance, I will make this change unless someone convinces me not to. Another question: Is the piano really typical in reggae?  Doesn't strike me as being very common at all, but I may be out of touch... Tuf-Kat 05:13, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)

You see this problem with many genres of music: one subgenre's name gets applied to a range of related subgenres. Reggae was just one of many Caribbean-influenced musical forms which were for a long time just thought of as Caribbean and/or "Black" music. Sometime in the late 1960s, people began to notice a wide variety of music being made, mostly by West Indians, which wasn't calypso or Afro-Cuban jazz or rhythm and blues, and the name "reggae" was extended from one subgenre to the whole movement. The same confusion exists with the names of just about all forms of popular music, e.g., rock and roll, rap, jazz, etc.Timothy Horrigan (talk) 21:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've moved Ska and Rocksteady from the sub-genres section of the info box to the influences section. However, I've left them in the genres section of the box which appears at the bottom of the all the Reggae genre pages - I think in that context it still makes sense to have them linked along with the other genres, even if they're not reggae in the strictest sense of the word.
 * Re. Piano - well, maybe it would be better to replace both piano and organ with the more generic 'keyboards' as there are plenty of albums with Piano, Electric Piano, Organ, Clavinet, Synths, etc, but the Wiki page for musical keyboards really doesn't convey what would be needed here. It's unusual for a reggae album not to have keyboards of some sort, but I've removed Piano for now, as you're right - organ is really the keyboard sound one most associated with reggae. --Bwmodular 10:25, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

re: Piano - Look no further than the classic album Double Barrel... yeah, keyboards would make more sense, as they play the offbeat with the guitar....Isol8d 10:57, 8 Apr 2004

Keyboards: the piano off beat "bang" is very important, frequently played with the guitar, but lower in the mix. As well as playing riffs, keyboard players help define whether the tune is rocksteady, ska by accenting high-hat beats. A dry "pop" noise is played quickly twice on the 2nd and 4th beat for ska, but a hammond organ "stab" is played on the 3rd beat of the bar for rocksteady. email sue-keys@hotmail.com

Reggae Festivals
Reggae Sunsplash has not been held for a few years now. The festival is defunct. It has been replaced by Reggae Sumfest, which is held in Montego Bay, Jamaica each year. The website is www.reggaesumfest.com

I think that it would be ok to include links to reggae concerts and festivals even if they do not have a stand-alone wikipedia article. Including links to the websites of festivals doesn't seem like it would be harmful to the article and seems like it would help to increase the general knowledge of the subject. --Migglesworth 21:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I created the Midwest Reggae Festival article on Wikipedia, and undid Spylab's deletion. I wanted to satisfy the concerns put forth by Spylab. I still hold to my above post however, and would appreciate any insight given as to why this would not be a good idea. --Migglesworth 22:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Without a Wikipedia article, there is no way to verify the notability (or even the existance) of a particular festival. It is the exact same logic you used in your comment about keeping certain reggae subgenres off of this page. Until those subgenres and festivals get their own articles (or get reliable references to back them up), there isn't much point in mentioning them. Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT#DIR and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT#GUIDE for reasons why the list of festivals should not get too big (and perhaps shouldn't even exist at all).Spylab 17:47, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Great explanation Spylab and thanks for the informative links. --Migglesworth 18:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Homophobia in reggae music
what about homophobia in reggae music and - inspired by reggae and rastafari - queerbashing and murder (esp. in Jamaica)?


 * By all means write something up about this - either start a new page, or add to existing ones where appropriate. There is a less positive side of Jamaican music which should be acknowledged - homophobia, misogyny, gun culture have all been features of some artists' work, and how many jamaican artists have been murdered? Go ahead and write an article about this if you feel inspired to do so.--Bwmodular 15:17, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Police seek Jamaican singer after armed attack on gay men

Sports Giant Threatens Antigay Reggae Singers

Puma threatens sponsorship withdrawal over anti-gay reggae row

Police Begin Criminal Probe Of Beenie Man, Three Other Anti-Gay Singers


 * I think you'll find that Reggae's often homophobic lyrics are a result of the homophobic culture in jamaica, not the other way around. Don't beleive everythying Peter Thatchell tells you. Birdseed 19:22, 2004 Sep 24 (UTC)


 * I think this article is the only appropriate place for any mention of homophobia in reggae music. It is NOT required on EVERY popular reggae artists page and I will continue to delete the contributions of those who seek to grind their particular axe anywhere but this page. --Scientz


 * I think it's worth pointing out that at least one Reggae artist, Judge Dread, was never homophobic in his records (not with typical Jamaican intensity and venom), and did include comic homosexual references in the British music-hall tradition.
 * Nuttyskin 05:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe you just meant it's worth noting here in the discussion, but it's not necessary to mention it it the reggae article, because the article only discusses homophobia in relation to dancehall reggae, and Judge Dread did ska and rocksteady. Besides, it wouldn't be practical or relevant to list all the reggae artists who aren't homophobic.Spylab 16:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab

Closely related to...
Rastafarianism? Surely not. A small minority of Reggae artists have been rastafarians. Birdseed 19:24, 2004 Sep 24 (UTC)

You what? I totally disagree. Its like saying that gospel has got nothing to do with Christianity, SqueakBox 14:51, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Birdseed didn't say it had nothing to do with it, but that it was of relatively minor importance. I agree, not Rasta per se; however, the broad brush of its cultural influence cannot be underestimated. Marcus Garvey was a Jamaican, remember.
 * Nuttyskin 05:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

A very large percentage of reggae musicians have been rastafarians for example: Bob Marley and most of the wailers, Sly and Robbie, Gregory Isaacs, Aswad, Steel Pulse, Culture, Dillinger, Uroy, Mikey Dread, Lee Scratch Perry, Black Uhuru, The Abyssinians, Big Youth, Burning Spear, Dennis Brown - the list goes on and on. Shoebill 21:37, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Origins of the word Reggae
Since it seems to be a fairly new word, I'd assume we'd know where it came from etymologically. However, there is no mention of it in the Reggae article. Can someone amend it with that information please?

Answer- Some Ska band had a song called "Do the Reggay," and it was a Reggae-sounding song, and that's where the term came from.

That was a song by Toots & The Maytals, released in 1968. It even has its own wiki article: Do the Reggay --Jakup r 09:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In the 3rd edition of the Rough Guide to Reggae, Lerry Marshall is interviewed about his musical style, and makes mention of the word "reggae" in conjunction with the word "ragged." Whether or not this bears any influence on the origin of the word is unspecific, though it is not entirely implausible, as reggae music reflects a poor Jamaica.


 * Reggae or reggay was initially interchangeable with streggae, suggesting an onomatopoeic word imitative of the sound and rhythm of the style it describes. In that respect, it is similar in origin to ska.
 * Nuttyskin 05:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The word "Raggae" is derived from "Raggay," a Kingston slang term meaning "raggedy, everyday stuff." Taken from "American Popular Music," Larry Starr, Christopher Waterman, OUP, 2007. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.185.60.250 (talk) 17:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC).


 * On gives a description about the etymology of the words 'Reggae' and 'Ragga'. Could 'Raga' be in any connected to these two styles/words? Wiki-uk 12:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"th" and "dh" sounds
Isn't it standard in reggae music to change "th" and "dh" sounds to "t" and "d"? I believe this is even used in rhymes sometimes.


 * I wouldn't say it's a standard in reggae music, but it's a feature of Jamaican Creole. Teklund 13:03, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Ranking?
What does "Ranking" mean, as in "Ranking Ann", or "Ranking Joe"? Is it similar to "Ranks" as in "Shabba Ranks"? It looks like a lot of performers/DJs, etc., used to call themselves "Ranking" something, then it stopped. Any reason why?


 * It's short for 'high ranking'. It has military connnotations and probably derives from street gangs and rudeboy culture where it would be used to describe criminals ' ie. 'ranking gunman'. Cheers illWill 10:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Also the ranking within a dancehall competition. Top ranking will be the winner, hence the Bob Marley song, SqueakBox 14:04, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

The word ranking was a mixture of the words ranting and skanking.

Skinhead Reggae
Suggestion. Add chapter about traditional skinheads and their favorite artists like Laurel Aitken, Desmond Dekker, Judge Dread, Symarip/Pyramids, The Pioneers, Dice The Boss etc. Describe skinhead reggae as another related genre like rocksteady.

Links to read: Trojan Records Symarip Reggae Ska MP3 samples -unsigned


 * You'd have to do a lot of work to convincingly distinguish it as a different genre from ska. I've never seen a definition that achieves that.Spylab 16:14, 4 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab


 * Nah Skinhead Reggae doesn't sound like ska at all, it's just early reggae played by skinheads (mostly, but not always, sometimes by Jamaicans, I believe Derrick Morgan played Skinhead Reggae at some time), with more skinhead themed lyrics and aimed at the Skinhead audience. I used to believe that Skinhead Reggae had more Organ solos, but I don't know for sure (but I think not, nowadays) - Loempiavreter

Original skinhead reggae was not performed by white British skinheads. It was played by black Jamaicans, and geared to a skinhead audience. White skinheads didn't start performing ska and reggae until later. Judge Dread played reggae and ska early on, but he had a full head of hair in any photos I've seen of him, so he wasn't really a skinhead by the time he was releasing records. I know that skinhead reggae is a bit slower than ska, and has lyrics mentioning skinheads, but other than that, I'm not really sure what the big difference is. Also, some of the artists listed by the original poster are mostly known as ska musicians. There would have to be a very clear description of what makes skinhead reggae unique if there is going to be a separate section about it. That description would have to be filled with sound facts backed up by reliable sources. Spylab 16:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm the Skinhead Reggae I am thinking off doesn't sound like ska at all.. The Hammond (keys) is taking over the role of the Horns, they aren't even common in Skinhead Reggae although they do sometimes appear. Horns probably one of the key things of Ska, but the Keys are more important in Skinhead Reggae.

I stay with my view that Skinhead Reggae is just Early Reggae made for skins, not Ska. Just check out the Skinhead Reggae Boxset from Trojan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOSCi6iXDA - Loempiavreter

I own that box set, as well as several other Trojan sets. Like I mentioned above, I do know there is a difference, but I don't have the expertise to articulate that difference in a Wikipedia article. And so far, nobody else has been able to do that either. If you can find references, go ahead and write a skinhead reggae article and/or section, but it should not be created unless the content is backed up by solid facts and a clear definition. One thing with Trojan box sets is that often the same artists and songs will appear on more than one set. I'm sure that even the people who compile those compilations would admit that sometimes there are problems in defining where one category ends and the next one begins. Horns aren't mandatory for ska, and sometimes ska does have keyboards.Spylab 13:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I realize that this is a valid genre of reggae however i did not feel it was appropriate to be listed in the four examples of reggae listed in the history. There are many genres of reggae that are not listed in the history. The ones that are can be considered to be the four major genres. Many of those not listed in the history are highlighted in the reggae box to the right of the page. As Wikipedia has yet to possess an existing article on this genre, it is my suggestion to first create the article and in it, enunciate what defines the skinhead reggae sub-genre, and then we all can incorporate this sub-genre into the reggae page. --Migglesworth 21:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Nov. 20 Edit
This did not fit in the edit summary, so I'm puting it here: Copyedits, wikilinks, removed external links to websites of a personal nature, non-english language websites, websites with no informative content or no information of general interest to the subject matter, and removed one POVish paragraph (the one about the king and prince of Reggae / Ezeu 19:58, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Skinhead reggae is not a sub-genre, it is the parent genre. The term probably didn't come into common use until the mid 70s (need references). Before that it was just reggae or "bluebeat". The need to differentiate came as reggae evolved into the slower roots form and the skinhead subculture had its revival.Upsetterfc 14:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Generic radio stations
The article claims that no generic radio station plays reggae. This is clearly not true, as plenty of radio stations around the world often play reggae. Is this some US-centric thing? Zocky | picture popups 14:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Well spotted and removed. Unfortunatrely many especially new US editors labour under the illusion that this a US encyclopedia whereas nothing could be further from ther truth. It is an international encyclopedia with a strong US bias that needs lots of volunteers to counteract, SqueakBox 14:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Homophobia
I removedthat quotation from village voice that asserted that homophobia, sexism and misogyny "blight almost all current reggae." These things are present in some modern dancehall, but "almost all current reggae"!? That's a hugely exaggerated, unqualified statement.

Catch a fire
Good day to all. I believe that the section regarding the album cover art of Catch a Fire: "...was first issued primarily for its novelty. That the album cover was issued at all indicates some difference in society's views at the time, and such an album cover would never be issued by a major record label today." is nothing but the authors opinion and should be removed. It's a Wikiworld out there.

So go edit. TV Genius 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

By the way, the "Catch a Fire" album is a Wailers album, not a Bob Marley album. It originally had a different cover (a cigarette lighter). The cover art you refer to is the reissue as "Bob Marley and The Wailers". Thanks for the article. 69.227.165.76 23:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and In-line citations
Members of the WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
A shame that the only picture currently on this page is of a few cannabis leaves. Not wanting to underplay the significance of cannabis in reggae, but do we have no other pictures that could illustrate this piece. Unfortunately, none of my photos of gigs are good enough quality but does anyone else have any decent photos we could use? Or could we use a few fair use images (record sleeves, flyers, etc)? I'll have a look for some PD images. --Bwmodular 08:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Some of the articles about reggae artists have photos of record covers and such, (hopefully cleared for copyright issues). I suggest checking articles of some of the most popular artists, and using some of those photos here. There could be photos for each era and style. Spylab

Reasons for GA Delisting
This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of 'What is a Good Article?', which states;


 * (b) the citation of its sources using inline citations is required (this criterion is disputed by editors on Physics and Mathematics pages who have proposed a subject-specific guideline on citation, as well as some other editors &mdash; see talk page).

LuciferMorgan 18:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

How Reggae Works
I have just added this section to give a more detailed view of the way the music is generally played. I have listed a lot of Bob Marley and the Wailers songs as examples because I feel that there is a good chance of these tracks being accessible to a large number of readers Shoebill 21:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

drums/percussion
Recently the drums and percussion sections in "how reggae works" were merged under the single heading of "percussion. Technically of course drums are percussion, however, in reggae the drums and percussion are perceived and treated as quite separate entities. For example, I just had a quick look through my cds and all of the bands who have a separate drummer and percussionist list them separately under "drums" and "percussion". The albums I looked at were by Bob Marley and the Wailers, Steel Pulse, The mighty Diamonds, Mikey Dread and Third World. I can find no reggae album in my collection where the drummer and percussionist are both listed under "percussion". The point is that they have very different roles - the drums (meaning the drum kit) are central and essential to reggae while the other percussion instruments are peripheral, optional and mainly add colour. So, I have re-separated the drums and percussion in the article but taking the point that drums are technically percussion I have given the percussion the new heading of "Other Percussion".Shoebill 11:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)Shoebill 11:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Keyboards
I removed references to the piano in the keyboard section. I realize that there are reggae songs with the piano and no keyboards but this is not common at all. If anyone could eloquently add something to the keyboard page referencing the piano and it's displacement in reggae this would be much appreciated. --Migglesworth 22:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Opening
You might want to consider reframing the opening but that bald statement looked dreadful and completely unwikipedia-like, lowering the credibility of the article. So reframe the opening but dont revert to that ugly mess, SqueakBox 21:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If its the Rasta you object to, how about the latest? SqueakBox 21:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That's fine.Spylab 22:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Good, SqueakBox 22:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW, I changed the bit about reggae also talks about issues of love, sex and social issues because all these are also sung within the context of Rastafari, eg Ijahman, Lincoln Thonmpson etc, its not as if there is a strong boundary or any boundary between Rastafari and non Rastafari reggae, SqueakBox 22:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

how to count Reggae?
I see people make this mistake over and over again! For example, listen to Bob Marley & The Wailers' Waiting in Vain. There, Barrett, the drummer, counts to 3 with a short roll on 4. That is the tempo! The skanking sound of guitar/piano/organ is NOT on the 2nd and 4th beat of a measure! it is on the EIGHTH NOTES IN BETWEEN! Reggae is very slow and in the one drop rhythm it follows pop music by giving an accented rim click and bass drum on every 2nd and 4th beat. ```


 * I was sure you were wrong about that (having been a reggae drummer for about 25 years LOL!) but I looked through some sheet music and indeed, reggae is written, as you say, with the skanks on the 8th notes inbetween the 2 and 4. I think what we see here is the difference between how a piece of music is experienced when listening to it and how it is written down - people count it "wrongly" is because the natural way to count the music when listening to it or playing it is different to the best way to write it down. You say that reggae is very slow and technically I take your point but you don't experience it as slow - "Waiting in Vain" for example comes across as perky and up-tempo, not at all "slow". This is because those stabs on the 8ths are very percussive and compete with the drums to define the feel of the tempo - they basically make it sound and feel twice as fast as the sheet music might suggest. I do agree that the article should apply the written convention though as you suggested and the article needs a bit more of a re-write - I'll do that now.Shoebill 17:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your reaction. I'm a reggae-drummer too :) If you take the 'rockers'-rhythm, you have to agree that without the skanking afterbeat, it is just a regular pop music beat: bass drum on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4 and hihat on all 8ths, with occasional fills on the 16th in between.

I'm no drummer, though I do programme drum machines.. I thought that the snare (and kick) was on the THIRD beat of the measure, and that reggae was in fact a fairly fast (drum) beat while the instruments play at half speed.. .thus the "skank" woudl be on the 2 and four. I suppose it doesn't really make all that much difference, but that's how I programme it anyway. Currently listening to "Django Shoots First" and it seems to match my expectations...

You are experiencing the difference between the way a piece of music feels and the way it is written down - you are not wrong but when reggae is written as sheet music they seem to do it the other way. I don't think it should be written that way but it is so we need to follow that convention here I guess. Shoebill 13:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics and music
Reggae, like all music genres, is primarily defined by the music style, and the lyrical content is secondary. A reggae song with nonsensical lyrics (or no lyrics at all) is still reggae, but a rock or hip hop song with lyrical themes similar to reggae doesn't suddenly become a reggae song if the musical style isn't reggae. Also, not all reggae songs have serious socio-policitical statements. Many reggae songs (from the beginning until now) are about non-political topics such as love, sex, partying, street life, personal bravado or violence. Spylab 18:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

That is what it says, well almost, it doesnt mention politics but Rastafari, stating that not all reggae is Rastafari but a significant amount is, which I think is true, SqueakBox 19:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Now it does. My comment was in response to a recent edit which placed the Lyrics section higher than the musical description section. Also, before I added the info about non-serious topics to the article, it gave the impression that all reggae was about politics, religion and other social issues.Spylab 20:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

First I would like to state that the ip address 216.219.126.70 is my work ip. So any changes made under this can be assumed I made them. I deleted some content referencing Bob Marley and Peter Tosh and their stance on marijuana. I did not feel that these were appropriately placed in this subject. The lyrical themes subject seems to be getting more and more clear and concise and I am pleased with its progress. The references to specific times when a reggae artist promoted marijuana seemed out of place. --Migglesworth 22:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Homophobia
Perhaps rather than adding dancehall to the section title the section should be moved to Dancehall? SqueakBox 22:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Coming upon this article it struck me as odd that homophobia in dancehall was an entire subject underneath lyrical themes when social justice, religion, and African language themes got but a sentence or two. It is a rather odd subject under lyrical themes and I am in agreement with Squeakbox which would solve the problem. I have listened to reggae for many years and the prevalence of homophobia never really occurred to me. I do not see the amount of homophobia in reggae and/or dancehall justifying it's own subject, when the majority of lyrical themes in reggae got such a small amount material considering their importance. I plan on adding more to the subject in the coming weeks and would appreciate any and all input. Migglesworth 16:36, 23 May 2007 (PST)
 * This makes sense to me. While homophobia may or may not be present in the lyrics of some subset of Reggae artists, it is far from a prevalent or noteworthy theme. As Migglesworth notes, social justice, politics, religion, and African language (along while many others -- See Babylon) are certainly more significant and representative. As an analogy, there may be Rock songs with lyrics about drug use, but it is hardly representative of the genre. I personally don't have the knowledge to meaningfully revise this article, but I would be supportive of the re-focusing proposed by Migglesworth. --Cziltang Brone 21:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I have moved the section on homophobia in dancehall to the dancehall article. I do not feel that a minor theme, specific to a genre of reggae should have been on the main page. It is the first time I have moved anything and if I didn't do it appropriately please let me know. Migglesworth 17:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Israelites (song)
I don't understand why the Israelites (song) isn't mentioned in the article. It was the first international reggae hit song in 1969.--cda 14:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Why are the Rolling Stones listed as reggae
The people on the Rolling Stones page came to the consensus that they were a reggae band, do you feel this was the wrong decision?Hoponpop69 00:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I do, of course they arent a reggae band, SqueakBox 00:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a misleading question? It doesn't list them as a reggae band. And it isn't listed as one of their 3 prime genres. It simply lists reggae as one of the styles that they play. And they have played reggae incorporated into their music for nearly 35 years. And they're actually quite good at it. Most people may not remember that in the early 70s when American rock radio first started playing reggae music of any kind, it wasn't by Marley or any other icons of the genre. The first reggae any of us heard was by Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin and The Rolling Stones. 156.34.216.230 17:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Well yes they do play reggae and collaborated with Peter Tosh but (as a Brit) I disagree that the first reggae heard was by Clapton etc, the first reggae I and many like me heard was on John Peel, SqueakBox 17:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That was an NA point of view. Kudos to UK radio for being so forward thinking. My shortwave was hit n miss back then so I didn't know the international perspective. 156.34.216.230 17:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a NA mainstream point of view. A lot of the counter-culture (alternative, underground, pick-your-term) radio stations in the early days were playing reggae - no doubt influenced by what Peel was doing in the UK.  I heard reggae on CHOM-FM in Montreal (when they were still known as CKGM-FM) long before Clapton et al were playing it. Michael Daly 05:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

REGGAE IS COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use of the word "have"
The correct usage is "Steel Pulse have..." not "Steel Pulse has..." This is because they are a group of people. For other examples see Wikipedia article on U2 (first line), Coldplay (last paragraph), Radiohead ("Roles" paragraph - first line) etc etc. For an external reference try the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20060309_U2.shtml Shoebill 16:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Other
 * I checked around, and apparantly both are correct when referring to bands. However, in this case I still think it should be has, because the words "the band" come before the name of the band (i.e. the band ____ has.) "The band" is a singular noun. It would only be plural if it said something like "the band members" or "members of the band". Spylab 16:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I have just done a little research and apparently it depends whether you are using American English or British English. Americans see "band" as singular and would use "has", British people (like me) see it as plural and use "have". I'm not going to change it back to my original (and equally correct) version though as I wouldn't want to get into an editing war. Why though, have you removed the term "for example" from this section. I feel that it lends a logical flow to the prose, connecting the second sentence clearly and neatly to the first whereas without it you add a layer of complexity and doubt that forces the reader to assume the connection between the two. Shoebill 10:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I took out "for example" because it seems to be redundant. It's obvious that the sentence is showing an example. What else could it be? I don't really care either way (about that or about the has/have issue), so I won't revert it if you change it. Spylab 10:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Merger (band)
This has just been added. I've done some basic cleanup and wikify, but I have no knowledge of reggae music, so anyone who knows about this band might want to pop by and add to the article. exolon 23:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Lyrical themes: misogyny
I was somewhat disturbed, or confused, by what is stated on lyrics in reggae. In particular the following as quoted here:

"topics of social activism include: black nationalism, anti-racism, misogyny, anti-colonialism, anti-capitalism, criticism of political systems, and criticism of the colonial education system".

Mostly correct to my experience, only one thing:

I hope that by "misogyny" is meant "anti-misogyny" (as in anti-racism in the same phrase), for misogyny means "hate of women" which is definitely NOT promoted or espoused in reggae lyrics, rather the contrary (Men Love Your Women - Ras Shiloh, Not The Way -Gregory Isaacs, to give only some examples).

I assume that it's a mistake, and just a matter of formulation, for presenting misogyny as social activism makes, to say the least, not very much sense.

89.98.136.93 01:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Misogyny is a notable feature of dancehall but not traditional reggae Shoebill2 10:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)