Talk:Reggae/Archive 3

Mistake in Drums section?
The naming of the "rockers" and "steppers" drum rhythms might actually be the other way around. There are a numerber of sources which use "steppers" for the eight-note beat and "rockers" for the quarter note beat:

https://books.google.de/books?id=pfqACgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA13&dq=steppers%20pattern%20reggae&hl=de&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q=steppers%20pattern%20reggae&f=false

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69EycvLMcuc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-73ZU5d4loU 5:30

On the other hand there are also sources, using "rockers" for the eighnote-pattern

https://books.google.de/books?id=QTlsa160OW8C&pg=PA162&dq=reggae+drums&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvjJvW-ZrNAhUFnRoKHdoFCbIQ6AEIUjAF#v=onepage&q=reggae%20drums&f=false

So maybe the article should just state, that naming is generally inconsistent.

Anyway, Mighty Diamonds - Right Time is definitely not an example of the rockers, no matter, how you define it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieb_TP7-aqE That's clearly a One Drop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.73.154 (talk) 13:00, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Contradiction?
"The slower sound was named rocksteady, after a single by Alton Ellis. This phase of Jamaican music lasted only until 1968, when musicians began to slow the tempo of the music again, and added yet more effects. This led to the creation of reggae."

"Reggae is normally slower than ska but faster than rocksteady."

Do these statements not contradict each other; the first saying Reggae is slower than Rocksteady and the Second saying it is faster? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.38.91 (talk) 03:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Musicians didn't slow the tempo down in the transition from rocksteady to reggae, they speeded it up, which is what I believe this used to say. Listen to early reggae tracks and you'll see this is the case. The rhythm slowed down again in the 70s. Obviously dancehall reggae that used old rocksteady rhythms was the same tempo as rocksteady.--Michig (talk) 05:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC) I've corrected it (with a source). --Michig (talk) 05:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * No, rocksteady is faster and sounds almost like Ska, compared to the first reggae, which was slowed way down. This was referenced to a reliable source on reggae history, that clearly states, the rock steady beat was played slower by DJs until it became reggae. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 06:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Try listening to some rocksteady, then listen to "People Funny Boy" or "Pop a Top". A few early reggae tracks had a slower beat but in general the tempo was increased. And it's sourced, so why are we debating it? See also Lloyd Bradley's This is Reggae Music: "The first official reggae-as-we-came-to-know-it records emerged in the early months of 1968, and although the most immediate difference between them and rocksteady was the speeding-up of the tempo, the new style really distinguished itself through the freedom it afforded the island's musicians". --Michig (talk) 06:35, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Or see David Katz's Solid Foundation:"Regardless of who was the first to name the new style, the faster, dance-oriented sound was often built around a rhythmic, two-chord organ shuffle that almost seemed to echo the word 'reggae' in sound. That's three of the best books written on reggae that say the tempo increased in early reggae.--Michig (talk) 06:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Consistency with other articles needed
This is a good article, but it needs better consistency with other articles on reggae music. For instance, this article credits without citation long-time Bob Marley drummer Carlton Barrett as creating the one-drop drumming style, where the article on noted Jamaican session drummer Winston Grennan, who is never mentioned in this article, credits him as creating it. No mention of toasting or U-Roy either.PJtP (talk) 15:12, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

It is also said in this article that Lucky Dube recorded 25 albums, but in the page for Lucky Dube it says that he recorded 22. Opsidao (talk) 19:42, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Reggae/dancehall in Zimbabwe
Every journey begins with a step for reggae in Zimbabwe it all began with Bob Marley's perfomance at the Rufaro Stadium in Mbare,Harare 18th April 1980 as the country gained independence from British colony.Reggae was common in Zimbabwe before 1980 but Bob Marley's perfomances catapulted reggae to the forefront as the the 80's it began a household name,even thou on national radio it had limited airplay the first dj to popularise reggae on national radio was Mike Mhundwa on radio 3 which also led to other dj's making their names like Jamaican dj Dennis 'shabba' Wilson who became a household name with his vast knowledge of reggae/dancehall and close links with Jamaican artists,he shared the reggae spotlight with other dj's like Innocent'for love' Manase who was well known for his love rock selections every Thursday night and other dj's like Hoseah 'the hitman' singende and Kudzi 'mr kool'Marudza who were R'n'B dj's who also had passion for reggae which they included most often on their shows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zimdancehallmovement (talk • contribs) 12:09, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Top Image
Facebook is linked with and uses Wikipedia, and the first image at the top of the page is automatically added to Facebook as a thumbnail/icon. The music staff image works, but consider the possibility of a colorful iconic image. J-klem (talk) 22:10, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Reggae as an umbrella genre
I can't help but feel that the time spent spelling out the supposed technical differences between Rocksteady / Ska / Reggae, would be better covered by recognising the term reggae as the umbrella term for all of these kinds of music. I realise that Ska & Rocksteady were certainly pre-cursors to reggae, but the term is certainly used - retrospectively as well as moving forward - to cover the wider spectrum of "reggae styles"

It's very hard to say where rocksteady starts and ska finishes - and that's before you even look at Blue Beat. In reality you sort of know when you listen to the tunes, and the difference is often about very subtle differences in recording or playing rather than strict technical definitions. Rocksteady fairly bounces along, at what ever speed it's played. Blue Beat is a very flat repetitive form of Ska, and generally a bit slower. There's so much overlap though - it doesn't bear defining too strictly.

I don't think the development of Reggae section covers the influence of UK based skinheads - Mods are mentioned, and this may have been partially true - but it was skinhead culture - which can be seen to have developed from Mod - which first pushed Reggae into a cult white following in the UK. There is clearly a paradox here as well since much of the Skinhead culture was clearly racist in intention as well. Reggae history can't really be considered properly though without exploring skinhead culture

78.32.193.115 (talk) 23:31, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Another Name Origin Theory
Another theory about the origin of the name reggae: Toots of Toots and the Maytals was in London recording a new single. He wanted a name for the great new beat that everybody was dancing to. Then as now one of the cliches about the new sound was, "it's like rock and roll, only backwards." Toots reversed the name of his good friend "Mr. Rock n Roll" to come up with "reggay." He thought "Jagger" was spelled "Yagger." Toots' famous single, "Do the Reggay," the song that gave reggae its name, was named after Mick Jagger, only backwards. Eventually Reggay morphed into reggae. Just something I heard. Something I heard, that's all Chisme (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we can't use that one. Unless, of course, it is mentioned somewhere in print, in some WP:RS. Cheers,  Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 23:21, 31 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Seven years later, that one's still not in print. So, that's a no for this article. Morganfitzp (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Placeholder for removed material
I've removed this material from the opening - it was far too technical. Placed here because it does need to be in the article but since this is a general history of reggae music and not a "how to play" reggae article - it should be at the end or somewhere else but not the beginning. If you disagree please feel free to revert my edit.

REMOVED

Reggae is most easily recognized by rhythmic accents known as the skank on the off-beat, usually played by guitar, piano, or both. This pattern accents the second and fourth beats in each bar—or the "ands" of each beat, depending on how the music is counted—and combines with the drum's emphasis on beat three to create a unique feel and sense of phrasing. This is in contrast to the way most other popular genres focus on beat one, the "downbeat". The tempo of reggae is usually felt as slower than the popular Jamaican forms ska and rocksteady, which preceded it. It is this slower tempo, the guitar/piano offbeats, the emphasis on the third beat, and the use of syncopated, melodic bass lines that differentiate reggae from other music, although other musical styles have incorporated some of these innovations separately.

END

Sluffs (talk) 17:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I merged some of that information into the Musical characteristics section.Spylab (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Reggaeton
Someone please help me understand why there is a reggaeton section in this article. Other than the name and the fact it traces its roots to the Dem Bow riddim, there is no link between reggae and reggaeton, and it is not considered a form of reggae.--Chimino (talk) 00:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Have you seen the article reggaeton, or noticed how many times the word reggae appears in that article? Take it up on that article talkpage, and convince editors of that article that "reggaeton has nothing to do with reggae".  Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 01:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I really have no interest in that article, as we are discussing the reggae article. A passing mention of reggae's influences is fine, but reggaeton is pretty much an unknown commodity in Jamaica or anywhere else outside of Spanish-speaking music scenes, so again you fail to present an argument how reggaeton is a form of reggae and deserves mention in this article.Chimino (talk) 02:33, 19 April 2013 (UTC)--02:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * All the argument you need that reggaeton is a form of reggae, is at the article reggaeton. If you won't even read that article, it's not incumbent on me to "present an argument". Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 02:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it really depends on whether you view reggaeton as the same genre as Reggae en Espanol or an evolution from it. Reggaeton is certainly related to the 'ragga' style of dancehall, but it's debatable whether a lot of that is really reggae in musical terms. I don't think it's unreasonable that reggaeton is mentioned here in the 'spin off' section, though I don't consider it to be reggae. --Michig (talk) 06:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Images
The images used in the article don't really seem to reflect the genre very well. As the genre's best known artist, the photo of Bob Marley belongs there, but the pictures of Sly and Robbie are not great, and seriously, two UB40-related pictures and 2 members of the Wailers band? This hardly reflects the major players in the genre over the last 45 years. A photo of Dennis Brown would fit much better in the 'Vocals' section. Surely there are also better quality images that we could use here? --Michig (talk) 18:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

"Notorious Reggae Memorabilia Exhibit" Section
This section has been placed within "Reggae outside of Jamaica" but all the other subsections in there are geographical. Also it doesn't read very clearly and parts of it are written like an advert for the record and exhibition. It also doesn't mention what year the exhibition is. Is this exhibition really notable enough to be included in the page on reggae? Should it be re-written & separated into its own section, or removed? Dichohecho (talk) 10:40, 11 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Looks like this section has since been removed. Morganfitzp (talk) 15:31, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Toots and Clifton ‘Jackie’ Jackson interviews
.... dave souza, talk 18:15, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * ...And? Morganfitzp (talk) 15:30, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Guyana
Guyana is an English-speaking country and not part of Latin America; culturally it is more of a Caribbean country. How does it come to be a source of "Reggae en Español", which is "sung in Spanish"? Zaslav (talk) 23:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I noticed this too. My guess is that the author of that section wanted to show how Reggae spread from Jamaica to Central America, and then to South America and was citing countries where it's popular. Brazil could have been in the South America category as well, but also not in the "en español" category. As an editors, we can look at the cited source and seek out others for clarification. See my note under "clean up" below for more tasks like these. Morganfitzp (talk) 15:29, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Zappa should be mentioned.
Maybe he was not very influential in the genre, but he obviously liked to use it in his music. 213.149.61.226 (talk) 06:18, 27 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I think Zappa rather disliked reggae, so from time to time he made fun of it, as he did with punk and many other genres. Anyway, I have undone your edit to Frank Zappa per wp:UNSOURCED. - DVdm (talk) 13:36, 27 October 2018 (UTC)