Talk:Religion in Pakistan/Archive 1

Sunni vs Shi'a
I have formatted the article so that its ready for people to add summaries of the religions in Pakistan, including for the articles already present. If someone could write smaller texts for each of the religions and how they came about in Pakistan. --User talk:Adi258 01 May 2006

I have found a rather large discrepancy in this page. It says that the majority of Muslims in Pakistan take part in Sunni Islam, this is not so. In fact, the numbers are correct but it is actually 77% Shi'a Islam in this country. Just thought that this should be addressed. Thanks 160.133.1.228 (talk) 18:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's see some sources. I've heard many statements like this about countries in which Sunnis have a clear majority. Coincidentally, these statements were all made by devout Shi'a Muslims. Kiyura (talk) 22:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused by this statement: "Nearly 75% of Pakistani Muslims are Sunnis and 20% are Shi'as." I may be wrong, but my impression is that Muslims can be classified as either Sunni or Shi'a based on a few basic principles that the two groups disagree on. The wording of the sentence I quoted makes it seem that there is a noticeable percentage of Pakistani Muslims that is neither Sunni nor Shi'a. Either the percentages should be approximated such that they add up to 100%, or the discrepancy should be addressed. If there IS a discrepancy, it should be clearly explained why this new group cannot be classified as either Sunni or Shi'a.

This is probably an error caused by the fact that some sources present the Sunni and Shi'a distribution as percentages of the total population, rather than of the Muslim population. Given that it's most likely a semantic error rather than a point of theological distinction, I'm going to change this in a few days if no one disputes.Kiyura (talk) 22:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Equality of Religion
The article claims that all religions have equal status in the Pakistan constitution, but this is not correct is it. If Islam is the state religion then how does that translate as equal status with other religions.--147.89.224.69 (talk) 16:47, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Recent revert
I've just reinstated a few "citation needed" templates and reverted SyedNaqvi90's other changes because I have a hard time assuming good faith when someone changes sourced information into made-up numbers. Huon (talk) 17:12, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * the source given for the Muslims by school and for the Madrassah percentages didn't actually contain either numbers,
 * the Sufi shrines are completely unsourced,
 * the source for Shias making up 30% of the population says: It is reported that thousands of Shia Muslims have been killed since the 1980s in a country where Shias make up nearly 30 percent of the population, nothing whatsoever about "more than 30%" and finally
 * the US State Department's report says "with a Shi'a minority ranging between 10 to 20 percent", not 15-20 percent, while it doesn't give any numbers whatsoever for the Sunni population.


 * Three sources(1, 2, 3) number them 20% and article Shia Islam says 10-15%. so i think we had two options (i) 10-20% (ii) 15-20% (iii) 20%. Now i will prefer (iii) because of all these references, Please don't revert unless you find more reliable sources. Secondly CIA FactBook mentioned sunnis to be 75% and 77% here. --TalhaDiscuss  &#169; 18:57, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

caption needed
Can anyone add a caption to the photo at List of shrines ? (I also posted this at Category:Pakistan's talk page.) Thank you. Eagle4000 (talk) 17:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Shia sources
I've re-added the Pew report and the Islamic Insights article. Both satisfy our guideline on reliable sources. For all I could ascertain, Islamic Insights is not a partisan Shia newspaper - I checked rather thoroughly and couldn't find any claim to that effect. I also removed a few sources: I also removed the CIA Factbook reference from the Sunni and Shia number because the entire section says it's sourced to the Factbook and to the State Department's report. As an alternative we could add it to these entries, add the State Department report to all entries based on it, and get rid of that last line.
 * PressTV only reported the claims of "Shia sources" without endorsing them. That's less than Islamic Insights does, and those Shia sources may have an interest in misrepresenting the number of Shias.
 * Wikipedia's Shia Islam article is not a reliable source.
 * PBS says its numbers are based on the CIA factbook we already cite; there's no need to provide that information twice.
 * IslamicWerb's numbers are outdated and a little dubious. For example, they estimate the entire population of Pakistan at less than 130 million, more than 25% less than the current number of about 170 million. I also have doubts about the neutrality of a source which says that it is "important to remember that Shia have a high birth rate since their religion allows adultery". Last I heard, adultery was punishable by death in Iran.

I left the Sunni number at "about 75%" because on the one hand, the only source saying anything at all about the Sunnis says 75%, on the other hand, assuming 5% who are neither Sunni nor Shia, 75% sits squarely in the middle of the range provided by the conflicting Shia numbers. We'd have to say "65%-85% if we wanted to base the range of Sunnis on the range of Shias. I prefer giving the middle, which is sourced, to giving a range whose ends aren't supported by sources. Huon (talk) 18:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * 75% equals middle of (65-85)%, similarly 20% for shia's population (middle of 10-30%) is acceptable as a solution provided by you to the problem. --TalhaDiscuss  &#169; 19:05, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But for the Shias we have (conflicting) reliable sources for the entire range; I see no reason not to present the entire range in that case. It's not as if there were no other numbers but 20% to be founds for the Shias. Huon (talk) 20:10, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Huon, Brainlara73 is repeatedly vandalizing the article and calling Shia's as cults, should he be warned or blocked? What do they mean by Shia committing adultery? Now isn't that damaging the communities reputation, basing something on lack of understanding and following the stereotypes? For god sake this is the most dubious and offense thing i have ever heard from some one, who lacks knowledge about religion and religious system, though is a senior editor. Specially when its comes from some who lacks understanding about it. Please i need some one to take action against this. They are mentioning stats from a site that is probably and Anti-Shia cults and their circus. By the way whats wrong in mentioning the Stats in variation, suppose if Shia are actually 30%, does the 75% Sunni claim makes sense? So instead of arguing with each other we should mention an estimate that makes sense, 70% - 75% or 65% - 75% does makes sense, since there has never been any census regarding the domination of sects or sub-sects in Pakistan. Shouldn't we give a neutral point of view? Please consider this, and kindly mention the % in variations. Regards SyedMANaqvi (talk) 21:48, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any instance of Brainlara73 calling Shias a "cult" either on this talk page or in the edits or edit summaries on the article itself; what are you referring to? Concerning the "adultery", the website refers to Mut'ah, and it seems a bizarre misrepresentation. Now that I've read more about it, I am even less inclined to believe that IslamicWeb is reliable by Wikipedia's standards; it should not be linked to.
 * As to the variation, of course there can't be 75% Sunnis if the 30% estimate for the Shias is correct; similarly, the 75% are too low if the 10% estimate for Shias is correct. Unfortunately, the number of Sunnis seems to be even harder to source than the number of Shias. In some instances I've tried to circumvent this problem by simply calling Sunnis "the majority" without elaborating, but that doesn't work in a table. As I wrote above, we probably agree that about 5% of all Pakistanis are neither Sunni nor Shia. Based on Shia estimates of 10% to 30%, we could thus either present a Sunni range of 65% to 85%, or we could go with "about 75%", which is both the middle of the interval and the only number supported by a source. I prefer the latter. If you see a method to completely get rid of the Sunni percentage so that we only give the percentages of the smaller denominations (and the reader has to infer the Sunni numbers), that might also help. Huon (talk) 23:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all i did not vandalized the page, secondly be cool, i never ever called shia's "cult", OK, i only mentioned figures from IslamicWeb but nothing else. Most of the sources mention shia's population about 20% some sources say 10-15% and other say 30%. You people have agreed to mention entire range on wikipedia. Ok fine. If you say 30% shia population then 65% are sunni's, and if you say 10% shia population then simply 85% sunni's. My point is why you are using double stanadard, on one side you are mentioning entire range, on the other hand you go for middle value. My suggestion is either use entire range (65-85%) and (10-30%) for both or middle value (75%) and (20%) for both. Thanks --TalhaDiscuss  &#169; 06:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Using the entire range for both is preferable to using the middle for both because otherwise we would hide some pretty significant amount of uncertainty and disagreement among reliable sources. But I'm not convinced those are the only two options, or the best. Huon (talk) 10:35, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

SyedMANaqvi once again added the PressTV source discussed above, and a second link to the very same article. He also used the opportunity to distort the Shia numbers to something to his liking, no matter that none of the sources support it, including PressTV which does not actually offer any opinion on the number of Shias in Pakistan. I have therefore reverted him. Huon (talk) 14:04, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Jainism, translations
59.103.194.148 re-added a paragraph about Jains in Pakistan; he also added Urdu and Hindi translations for the names of the religious groups. I have reverted him for the following reasons: Please do not to re-add the Jain paragraph without either adding a reliable source or explaining your reasoning here. Huon (talk) 13:30, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) The main Jainism article does not mention either Pakistan or Sindh. Adding Jainism to the religions in Pakistan would require a reliable source, and one more specific than just "Oxford Social Studies of Pakistan" (which is unknown to Google Books and Google Scholar).
 * 2) Wikipedia is not a dictionary, not even a bilingual dictionary. There is no reason to provide Urdu or Hindi translations for words common in English. Besides, why Hindi? That's not even the national language of Pakistan.

Indian religions
I have removed the entries on Ayyavazhi, Bon, and Ravidassia. None of them had reliable sources (actually they had no sources at all), and none of the main articles give any indication that these religions have adherents in Pakistan. Furthermore, Bon is a subset of Buddhism and need not be covered in a separate section even if there were reliable sources. Huon (talk) 13:45, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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Second Largest Religion
Since Hinduism and Christianity both cite equal figures of 1.6 per cent, the Christian and Hindu sections will be updated to reflect this.Daniel De Mol (talk) 06:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

This is not correct. Hindus according to the 1998 census were divided into Hindu Jati at 1.6% and scheduled castes at 0.25%. Why Pakistan makes such a distinction is a bizarre one because in no other land on this planet where hindus exist is such a distinction made. Hindus are marginally the second largest faith based on the last census of religion. 86.147.48.162 (talk) 00:03, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Religion_in_Pakistan
This section seems to have entries that either don't make sense, have differing sources that change the meaning or is confusing. For example:


 * Tasneefism and anti-tasneefers aren't mentioned in the sources at all (unless someone had found a name of the small animist group - but an "anti-tasneefers" group??)


 * The stats just say "2 percent of the population or less include Hindus, Christians, and others including Ahmadis" but there is no breakdown at all for each group and the total using US Stats comes from 168 million total for no more than 3.36 million whereas the article totals 8 million just for Christians and Jews.


 * The smaller religions have "Parsis (Zoroastrians), Sikhs, and Buddhists each had approximately 20,000 adherents" and Buddhists are missing entirely from the table.


 * the percentages on the right don't seem to match the entries on the left either - all the stats say Islam is 95 or 96 percent but since there is no break down of Christian vs Hindu, it's just useless.

I'd make some changes but perhaps someone who watches this page more should clean it up or gather more refs. Smkolins (talk) 17:04, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The Ahmadiyyah estimate is just wrong from the source - it should be 2,000,000 (1995 estimate)

Hi, I dont know who keeps messing with it, but the last comprehensive census of Pakistan was held in 1998. In there the population breakdown was given for Hindus (they seperate Hindu Jati and schedule castes for some reason) these were 1.6% and 0.25% respectively and Christians 1.59% and Ahmadiyyas 0.22%. However all other minority religions were grouped at 0.07%. The populations therefore have been extrapolated to the latest estimate for the total population.

The US Debt of State stats you refereed to do not say 2% are comprised of Hindus, Christians etc, but: “Groups comprising 2 percent of the population or less include Hindus, Christians, and others including Ahmadis.”

The muslim population as given by both the latest Pakistan census and US estimates (used as a reference) both give 96%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.89.224.69 (talk) 13:35, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

What is with the vast majority of the Hindu entry focussed on caste discrimination? Pakistan has a far larger problem of Inter-Islam conflict not to mention problems for minority religions. This clearly a disproportional bias against Hindus. The entire flavour of the Hindu entry is incongrous to the other religion entries. It is going to be changed.86.147.48.162 (talk) 00:08, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Faked numbers and off-topic sections
I once again restored the numbers to what the sources actually report. Apparently the page must constantly be watched, or some people will simply lie about what the sources report. In the process I noticed that the "Sunni" and "Shia" sections were general introductions to those denominations with little specificity to Pakistan. Consequently I removed that content. An expansion of Pakistan-specific content on those denominations would be useful, though. Huon (talk) 22:51, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20091110133919/http://www.pakistani.org:80/pakistan/constitution/part3.ch3.notes.html to http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part3.ch3.notes.html

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Ahmadis or non-Muslims
According to constitution of pakistan.Ahmadis are non-Muslim.so it is not right to add Ahmadis in muslim and islam.they have their own prophet but if they fallow islam so they should fallow muslim's last prophet Akash Gondal (talk) 15:57, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If you have reliable sources that say that Ahmadis categorically aren't Muslims, by all means add them, but the law of Pakistan doesn't determine what can and can't be included in Wikipedia.  Pepper Beast    (talk)  19:58, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

force conversion to Islam of girls from minority groups
https://apnews.com/article/karachi-pakistan-coronavirus-pandemic-christianity-marriage-2d335f305278348540db41b593a9a2a9

According to AP news, every year 1000 girls in Pakistan are forced to convert to Islam. This should be mention in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.226.14.31 (talk) 16:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

History of religion in Pakistan before Mughals.
The history related to origins of Indians or Hindus in Pakistan is erased. I think it should be discussed and explained. Anonymous Bond (talk) 16:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Many Pakistanis are converted from Hindu to Pakistan. People in Pakistan don't realise this history. It needs to be explained. Anonymous Bond (talk) 19:04, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * please substantiate with a proof. Charlieheb (talk) 05:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)