Talk:Religious Science/Archive 1

Very old section
I 200.94.235.45 03:09, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC) am becoming familiar with wikipedia and would like to communicate with any who would like more inclusive information regarding Religious Science International. My wife is minister emeritus after founding RSI church in Encinias, California. She is a fount of information which I can access in order to answer questions.

Hi. I'm a UCRS Practitioner. I'd like to discuss Religious Science with anyone who is interested.

Are there any religious writings considered canon, sacred, holy, etc? In other words, is there any kind of "bible", or are there any religious texts that are officially endorsed? I realize this may have more than one answer (RSI, UCRS, GRSM, etc). Also, how did this religious come to be? Was it created by man, given to a prophet, a religious text, etc? Concering the "teachings", are there any guidelines for things that should and should not be asked for? For example, that a person be murdered. Let's say that was acceptable, but another wanted that same person to not be murdered. How is the conflict resolved? Another way of asking that, will one be preferred over the other, because both can't exist at the same time (either will be murdered, or will not).

There are no writings considered canon, sacred, or holy as such, there is a Science of Mind textbook that was written by Ernest Holmes that is the basis for most of the teaching. Science of Mind is as much a philosphy as a religion it was "created"(for lack of a better word) by Holmes whom had to be convinced to let it become a religion. Holmes said that it is "open at the top" meaning that there is a lot more to be learned. Religious Scientists do not "ask" for things to do so would be to believe in an external god. We basically change our world by changing our minds. As far as treating(praying) for someone to be murdered that is not our way and no true Religious Scientist would even think of causing harm to others, not because of any morally superior belief in ourself but the realization that we can't hurt another through treatment, thats just not how it works, and any attempt to would probably result in hurting ourselves. As for the expression that two things can't exist at the same time that is a discussion for another day, you might want to watch the movie: What the Bleep do we Know for a better understanding of that. namaste

Spiritual Mind Treatment
I'm not satisfied with the section on Treatment.

I made a small change; I changed, "People can begin to be motivated to achieve more fulfilling lives through a process called spiritual mind treatment, or affirmative prayer" to "People can achieve more fulfilling lives through a process called spiritual mind treatment, or affirmative prayer". Treatment may be motivating but Science of Mind teaches that our thoughts create our lives, period. That's not motivation, that's creation. And it's not "begin to" but instantaneous. If it isn't instantaneous then you didn't believe your treatment and it is the complete belief that make it so.

Also, the phrase "more fulfilling lives" is a value judgment. Everyone creates with their mind all the time. They create things that work for them and things that don't work. But most are do this unconsciously by believing that some things are beyond their control; that it's being "done" to them by others or even by God.

I'm writing this because I'm not sure I can change this to be more accurate and not just different. I hope others who use the Science of Mind will comment or make changes. I will return when I've done some research and have some authoritative citations to add.R39525 20:07, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Question
How can Emanuel Swedenborg & Ralph Waldo Emerson have "figured prominently in the growth and evolution of Religious Science" since they died before the movement was started? They have in some sense had intellectual and spiritual influence on many groups, but they are not distinctive to this one. DGG 23:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Response: Ernest Holmes started his career as an Emersonian lecturer. This was someone who memorized Emerson's essays and declaimed them for audiences (back in the days before radio, this was considered entertainment). In this way, Holmes ingested many of Emerson's ideas, and through him the Buddhist and Hindu influences that were flowing through the east coast seaports in Emerson's times. Holmes read and studied many religious and philosophical materials. So, he was influenced by many ideas, including those of Swedenborg. Holmes himself said "we have no lock on the truth" and was quick to cite the many materials he synthesized into the philosophy that eventually became Science of Mind(R). He was eventually persuaded to start a New Thought religion and decided to call it Religious Science, at a time when a applying science to religion and religion to science was a relatively new concept. RSI Minister Rev Pam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.89.192.112 (talk) 20:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

RSI is a family-destructive cult!
Hello I hope we cann add something about how RSI is filled with ministers who have established cults with the purpose of establishing discatortorship power over their community members and destoroying families by expelling people they don't like without officially expelling them. They ahve created fradudulent classs/therapy structures and subvert the minds of men and especially women to do what they want to do instead of following the way that God meant things to be. 68.189.85.52 04:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Response: I am so sorry you had this experience. And undoubtedly, there are occasions in every institution where power is abused. However, Religious Science is not a cult, since it stresses personal development and independent thinking. We never tell anyone what to think -- we tell them to trust their "inner voice" and to live according to what feels right to them. Also, because we believe that we are each an expression of God, we know that we are all part of the Whole -- therefore, in a very real sense, what we do to another we do to ourselves. Rev. Pam, RSI Minister —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.89.192.112 (talk) 20:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Another response: Check any dictionary on the definition of "cult"  The first definition is "a particular system of religious worship..." That applies to ALL religions and spiritual teachings! Because cult = religion/spiritual teaching, the question is therefore not if Religious Science is a spiritual teaching, but rather whether or not it is a DESTRUCTIVE teaching. From my own experience as a member of a Relgious Science Center for over 30 years, I can say that it is the OPPOSITE of destructive....it is the most CONSTRUCTIVE thing I have ever learned, since it has helped me cope with and resolve various monetary, relationship, and health issues in my life. It did this with the many very inspirational Sunday talks and classes that I have attended, and with the practice of Spiritual Mind Treatments and meditation. Just watch Oprah and Larry King on TV and you'll see that the world is finally tuning into the Principles of New Thought (which includes Religious Science), through popular movies like "The Secret," and through books written by Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, Louise Hay, and others. Don't knock it unless you've tried it! Having said that, whenever humans are involved, there are always cases where ego will prevail over reason and objectivity. Unless people use the Principles and practices of Religious Science and other techniques (such as Reflective Listening) when under stress, they don't work. Without knowing the specifics of your problem, I can only surmise that you had a negative experience because egos got bruised and people were not willing to look at both sides of the issues. Perhaps an impartial third party would have helped mediate the issue. Here's to Enlightenment! --Wonbillions (talk) 23:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This should satisfy requirements
As stated presently on the top of the Religious Science page "If you are familiar with the subject matter, please expand or rewrite the article to establish its notability." I am familiar with the subject matter, and am attempting to establish its notability by adding references. The other edits are totally non-controversial. If you like, go back to the original author to verify that fact (or to modify them further).

In any case, please let me know whether the following revised text now satisfies your requirements. Only the below sections have been modified. Thanks again for your help, --Wonbillions (talk) 04:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

INTRO BELOW THIS LINE

Religious Science, also known as Science of Mind, was founded in 1927 by Ernest Holmes (1887-1960) and is a spiritual/religious movement within the New Thought movement. (In general, the term "Science of Mind" applies to the teachings, while the term "Religious Science" applies to the organizations. However, adherents often tend to use the terms interchangeably.)

HISTORY BELOW THIS LINE Upon publication of his seminal book in 1926, The Science of Mind, Holmes established the Institute for Religious Science and School of Philosophy in Los Angeles. This organization would later become the Church of Religious Science. Holmes, who had studied Divine Science (Holmes was an ordained Divine Science Minister) from which he adapted the name. He intended Religious Science to be "open at the top" - that is, open to evolutionary change. Holmes also published a magazine called "Science of Mind," which includes inspirational articles and daily readings/affirmation; as well as a list of member UCSL (see below) Centers. For a biography of Ernest Holmes, see "Open at the top: The life of Ernest Holmes" In 1953 the Church of Religious Science split into two organizations, known today as the United Centers for Spiritual Living, or UCSL (formerly the United Church of Religious Science, or UCRS), and Religious Science International, or RSI. RSI cites the cause of the split as "differences in approach to corporate structure and church administration." UCSL is based in Burbank, California and currently led by Rev. Kathy Hearn. RSI is based in Spokane, Washington and currently led by Dr. Kenn Gordon. On September 11, 2007, the Board of Directors of Religious Science International and the Core Council of the United Centers for Spiritual Living met in Los Angeles, CA, and voted to begin a process of integration into a single organization once again. There is no specific timetable for this to occur, however, there will be ongoing activity to bring various aspects of the two organizations together. RSI publishes a magazine called "Creative Thought" which includes daily "spiritual mind treatments" (see below), short inspirational articles, and a listing of RSI centers.. Global Religious Science Ministries, or GRSM, was founded by former RSI ministers who envisioned an expanded definition of ministry. GRSM is based in Silver Spring, Maryland and currently led by Rev. Lisa Marks. In addition, there are some smaller branches, as well as independent Religious Science churches. The teachings of the branches are generally similar and the organizations collaborate on events. For a detailed history of the New Thought movement, including Religious Science, see the book "Spirits in Rebellion"

TEACHINGS BELOW THIS LINE

Teachings
The Science of Mind (SOM) teachings generally have idealistic and panentheist tones. SOM teaches that all beings are expressions of and part of Infinite Intelligence, also known as Spirit, Higher Consciousness, God, or the One Mind. SOM teaches that thought is creative, and people can learn to more consciously create their own experience. A slogan used by some Religious Science centers is "Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life." It does not worship a person, but rather God, which incorporates all people. It treats the great prophets of history as great examples rather than great exceptions.

People can achieve more fulfilling lives through a process called spiritual mind treatment, or affirmative prayer. Spiritual mind treatment is a step-by-step process, in which one states the desired outcome as if it is already known that it has happened. It therefore lacks the "supplication" aspect of traditional prayer. Each step flows logically from the last one. Treatment is to be stated as personal, positive, powerful, and present. The goal is to gain clarity in thinking that guides action to be consistent with the desired outcome. The treatment sets off a new chain of causation in Mind that leads one to act according to the good for which one is treating.

One of the most popular treatment processes includes the following five steps:


 * 1) Recognition: There is one Spirit. Spirit is all there is. (God is).
 * 2) Unification: Spirit and I are one. I live, move, and have my being in God. (I am).
 * 3) Realization: A series of statements affirming/declaring the outcome desired. (I accept).
 * 4) Thanksgiving: Being thankful that we have received the desired outcome, or something even better. (I am thankful) or (I Give Thanks).
 * 5) Release: Giving it over to the Law and letting the Law do its work (Let go and let God) or (And So It Is).

Someone who is certified to conduct treatments during services or to assist people through treatment is called a practitioner. A professional practitioner is available for spiritual counseling by appointment and performs some ecclesiastical functions in association with the minister, such as giving treatments during services or making announcements. The way that each practitioner conducts treatments may be very different. The training of practitioners varies a bit in each of the branches, but licensed practitioners (who carry the designation RScP) are thoroughly trained in professional courses and required to maintain an ongoing education and service to their communities. Ministers are also carefully trained, and other members are also encouraged to take Science of Mind classes. Everyone is also encouraged to do spiritual mind treatment on their own to solve various problems in their lives. Some people effectively combine spiritual mind treatments with various forms of meditation.

The Science of Mind also states seven main attributes (or Seven Verities) of Infinite Intelligence, or God: love, light, life, power, peace, beauty, and joy. It describes God as a "triune unity" (Holmes's phrase) of Spirit, Soul, Body. God is viewed as Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.

The mental healing work of Dr. Phineas P. Quimby was a source of inspiration to much of the New Thought movement, including Religious Science. Although some of the teachings are similar, Religious Science is not to be confused with Christian Science, founded by Mary Baker Eddy. Former Christian Scientist Emma Curtis Hopkins developed her own method of "Scientific Christian Mental Practice," which she taught to Holmes and founders of several other New Thought denominations (including the Fillmores, founders of Unity Church, and the Brooks sisters, co-founders of Divine Science). Her work was later published as a book by the same name. Ernest Holmes was strongly influenced by Ms. Hopkins and by the writings of Judge Thomas Troward and Ralph Waldo Emerson, as he developed his synthesis which became known as Religious Science.

While UCSL, RSI, and GRSM have standardized Science of Mind curriculum and course materials, the approach to the teachings may vary from center to center. Because Ernest Holmes studied numerous spiritual teachings before founding Science of Mind, Religious Science centers have ministers who bring relevant aspects of a variety of teachings into their services, including Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism (including the mystical Kabbalah), Islam, or Taoism. Many Religious Science centers have active Sunday Schools, Youth Groups and Young Adult programs. [End of moved material HrafnTalkStalk 04:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC) ]

Comments
HrafnTalkStalk 05:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * References:
 * Most of the references are to Holmes & other Religious Science-affiliated sources. These cannot help to establish notability, per WP:NOTE. They can however be used to fill in the details as long as they don't cross the limits set in WP:V.
 * The Charles Samuel Braden reference is for the New Thought movement, so really belongs in that article not this one, and helps establish that article's notability.
 * This only leaves Open at the top -- a short (193 page), out of print book by a relatively obscure author published by an unknown (and probably defunct) publisher. A marginal source at best from the point of view of notability. In any case, you don't reference it for any statements made in the article, but merely treat it as 'further reading'.
 * Content:
 * The tone and balance of this proposed article is really way off -- effusive praise & lots of minutiae, it was for articles like this that template:fansite was created. What the article really needs is sober, third-party, discussion of this church's theology and history, from sources who understand enough comparative religion to place this church in context, and are independent enough to include the lowpoints in its history as well as the highpoints.

Here's the proposal with unsourced and irrelevant material eliminated (I've left the minutiae for now):

HrafnTalkStalk 05:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Further proposal from Wonbillions (slightly cleaned-up so that references work)
[Moved from User talk:Hrafn ] Religious Science, also known as Science of Mind, was founded in 1927 by Ernest Holmes (1887-1960) and is a spiritual/philosophical/metaphysical religious movement within the New Thought movement. In general, the term "Science of Mind" applies to the teachings, while the term "Religious Science" applies to the organizations. However, adherents often tend to use the terms interchangeably. Ernest Holmes stated "Religious Science is a correlation of laws of science, opinions of philosophy, and revelations of religion applied to human needs and the aspirations of man." He also stated that Religious Science/Science of Mind (RS/SOM) is not based on any "authority" of established beliefs, but rather on "what it can accomplish" for the people who practice it. It differs from another popular New Thought teaching (Unity Church, a.k.a. Unity School of Christianity) because it does not focus on any single traditional religion.

History
Ernest Holmes did not originally intend for RS/SOM to be a religious "church," but rather a teaching institution. In that spirit, most of the member "churches" are now changing their names to "centers." The mental healing work of Dr. Phineas P. Quimby was a source of inspiration to much of the New Thought movement, including RS/SOM. Ernest Holmes was especially strongly influenced by Emma Curtis Hopkins and by the writings of Judge Thomas Troward and Ralph Waldo Emerson, as he developed his synthesis which became known as Religious Science.

Upon publication of his seminal book in 1926, The Science of Mind, Holmes established the Institute for Religious Science and School of Philosophy in Los Angeles. This organization would later become the Church of Religious Science. Holmes, had studied another New Thought teaching, Divine Science (Holmes was an ordained Divine Science Minister). He saw humans as being "open at the top" - that is, open to evolutionary improvement of consciousness in all areas of life. Except for one notable exception (see below) the concepts of "Open at the Top" and "New Thought" have inspired the organization itself and its teachings to evolve over the years. As stated in the book "New Thought: A Practical American Spirituality," "New Thought still is evolving;  it may yet be the point at which religion, philosophy, and science come together as the most effective combination to move the world to greater peace, plenty, health, and harmony.  Many believe it might be the quintessential spirituality for the next millenium." Holmes also published a magazine called "Science of Mind," which includes inspirational articles and daily readings/affirmations; as well as a list of member UCSL (see below) centers. His teachings attracted famous celebrities of his time, including Cecil B. De Mille, Peggy Lee, and Cary Grant. In 1953 the Church of Religious Science split into two organizations. One is known today as the United Centers for Spiritual Living, or UCSL (formerly the United Church of Religious Science, or UCRS). The other is Religious Science International, or RSI. RSI cites the cause of the split as "differences in approach to corporate structure and church administration." UCSL is based in Burbank, California and currently led by Rev. Kathy Hearn. RSI is basedin Spokane, Washington and currently led by Dr. Kenn Gordon. On September 11, 2007, the Board of Directors of Religious Science International and the Core Council of the United Centers for Spiritual Living met in Los Angeles, CA, and voted to begin a process of integration into a single organization once again. RSI publishes a magazine called "Creative Thought" which includes daily "Spiritual Mind Treatments" (see below), short inspirational articles, and a listing of RSI centers.. Global Religious Science Ministries, or GRSM,was founded by former RSI ministers who envisioned an expanded definition of ministry. GRSM is based in Silver Spring, Maryland and currently led byRev. Lisa Marks. In addition, there are some smaller branches, as well as independent RS/SOM centers. The teachings of the branches are generally similar and the organizations collaborate on events. For a detailed history of Religious Science, see the books "Spirits in Rebellion" and "Open at the Top..."

Teachings and Practice
The RS/SOM teaching generally has idealistic and panentheist tones. RS/SOM teaches that all beings are expressions of and part of Infinite Intelligence, also known as Spirit, HigherConsciousness, or God. It believes that, because God is all there is in the universe (not just present in Heaven, or in assigned deities, as believed by traditional teachings), Its powers can be used by all humans to the extent that they realize Its presence. Ernest Holmes said "God is not ... a person, but a Universal Presence ... already in our own soul, already operating through our own consciousness."

Further, RS/SOM states seven main attributes (or Seven Verities) of Infinite Intelligence, or God: love, light, life, power, peace, beauty, and joy. It describes God as a "triune unity" (Holmes's phrase) of Spirit, Soul, and Body. God is viewed as Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent, while humankind is viewed as a means for God to express Itself.

RS/SOM further believes that sin stems from a person's feeling of separation from God (God includes all humans) and therefore from God's attributes (see below). Sermons by Religious Science ministers often state that sin stems from "Self Inflicted Nonsense." On the other hand, Religious Science believes that humans can accomplish anything that is life enhancing, if they realize their own divine nature. SOM teaches that thought is creative, and people can learn to more consciously create their own experience. A slogan used by some Religious Science centers is "ChangeYour Thinking, Change Your Life." It does not worship a person, but rather God, which incorporates all people. It treats the great prophets, scientists, and other inspired thinkers of history as great examples rather than great exceptions. In other words, any human can achieve to the extent that he or she can conceive of ideas. One of its precepts is the "Law of Attraction," as presented in the popular self-help movie "The Secret". It focuses on a state of "heaven" or "hell" in this dimension, rather than the next.

The Introduction to "The Science of Mind" text describes "The Thing Itself" (God or Infinite Intelligence), "The Way It Works," "What It Does," and "How to Use It." Although Holmes was criticized for not focusing much on love, he did say that "Love rules through Law." (i.e. the Law of Mind or Cause and Effect) and "Love points the way and Law makes the way possible."

RS/SOM believes that people can achieve more fulfilling lives through the practice called Spiritual Mind Treatment (Treatment), or Affirmative Prayer. Spiritual Mind Treatment is a step-by-step process, in which one states the desired outcome as if it has already happened. In that way, it differs from traditional prayer, since it does not ask God for assistance. It declares human partnership with God to achieve success. Treatment is to be stated as personal (first person), positive, powerful (with feeling), and present (is happening right now). The goal is to gain clarity in thinking that guides action to be consistent with the desired outcome. The Treatment sets off a new chain of causation in Mind that leads one to act according to the good for which one is treating. Spiritual Mind Treatment, as currently taught in RS/SOM centers, contains five steps: Recognition, Unification, Realization, Thanksgiving, and Release.

Classes and seminars at RS/SOM centers teach techniques for fluently conducting extemporaneous Spiritual Mind Treatments. Someone who is certified to conduct Treatments during services or to assist people through Treatment is called a Practitioner. A professional Practitioner is available for spiritual counseling by appointment and may perform some ecclesiastical functions in association with the Minister, such as giving Treatments during services or making announcements. The way that each Practitioner conducts Treatments may be very different. The training of Practitioners varies a bit in each of the branches, but licensed Practitioners (who carry the designation RScP) are thoroughly trained in professional courses and required to maintain an ongoing education and service to their communities. Ministers are also carefully trained, and all members of the spiritual community are also encouraged to take Science of Mind classes and seminars. Everyone is also encouraged to do Spiritual Mind Treatment on their own to solve various problems in their lives. Sermons of ministers and Practitioner classes often use the phrase "Treat and move your feet." That is, Treatments are not effective unless they are applied in every day life. Personal responsibility is a major tenet of RS/SOM. Although scientific research has not yet been conducted on the efficacy of Spiritual Mind Treatment, positive feedback from Practitioners and recipients of this practice at RS/SOM centers demonstrates its effectiveness. Some of its tenets are used effectively in sports psychology and healing, as Mental Practice of Action, which has been scientifically researched. Some people effectively combine Spiritual Mind Treatments with various forms of meditation and a recently developed practice called "Visioning."

While UCSL, RSI, and GRSM have standardized Science of Mind curriculum and course materials, the approach to the teachings may vary from center to center. Because Ernest Holmes studied numerous spiritual teachings before founding Science of Mind, Religious Science centers have ministers who bring relevant aspects of a variety of teachings into their services, including Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism (including the mystical Kabbalah), Islam, or Taoism. Many Religious Science centers have active Sunday Schools, Youth Groups and Young Adult programs.

Religious Science / Science of Mind can be summarized by its "Declaration of Principles."

[End of proposed material HrafnTalkStalk 01:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC) ]

[Striking material that is not sourced to a specific document (referencing only a magazine title, without giving issue, let alone page is useless -- worse it is to a magazine published by the article-subject, so hardly an independent source on its history). HrafnTalkStalk 02:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC) ]

I've put the article up (with further trimming for unsourced/mis-sourced material). It still needs a going over by a neutral editor with access to the cited sources (hence COI template). HrafnTalkStalk 14:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)