Talk:Religious views on suicide/Archive 1

Qaradawi
Some modern `Ulama (like Yusuf Qaradawi) don't consider suicide-bombers to be real suicides. AnonMoos 19:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The Islamic section has obviously been vandalized. I do not feel learned enough on the topic to edit it myself, but it definitely needs to be changed.

In Islam section
In "although Allah is said to be 'the Most Merciful, the Most Kind' and to forgive all sins, the great sin of unbelief is deemed unforgivable."

This is just not neutral(sarcasm) and plain wrong. why?


 * The article is about religious views of suicide not religious views on "unbelief".

In Islam, suicide is unforgivable. why?
 * Because it clearly states that there is a contradiction in the Quran, which resulted from the wrong interpretation and misunderstanding of 'the Most Merciful, the Most Kind' which is a lossy translation of "الرحمن الرحيم", I don't claim that I have the perfect translation for it.

Isn't it self-explanatory? anyway, because you don't exist in this life anymore to ask for forgiveness! also because you don't own yourself to end your life whenever you want....

Now, can someone remove that sentence? or shall I remove it myself?

Kind regards --Alnokta 22:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

cleanup-rewrite
There are all sorts of problems here. First of all, the islam section is mixing arabic and english text in a way which seems to make no sense, and has lots of other problems. The Judaism section is bad for a number of reasons, such as the use of "G-d" instead of God, improper listing of references, and the fact that the second half of this section is about pain medication rather than suicide. The modern christianity and Hinduism sections are unreferenced and I'm not sure they're even accurate. The Modern Catholicism section uses the phrase "mortal death", is that an actual term in catholicism? I'm sure there's more wrong with this article which I didn't notice upon my brief inspection. --Xyzzyplugh 13:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * In Judaism, it's considered improper to write the full name of God, so they tend to skip the vowels. Le Messor 03:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Is it just me, or does this sentence make no sense?
 * Suicide is forbiden in all circumstances even in war, since the Prophet sal Allahu alihi wa sal-lam said about the man who had been afflicted in a battle with many wounds and killed himself that he will be in the Hell fire.
 * - LeaHazel 20:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this pair of sentences make no sense: no specific verse that explicitly states that suicide leads directly to Hell. As a result, there is a growing belief that Christians who commit suicide are still granted Eternal life.
 * Wouldn't eternal life be Hell to somebody who hates life enough to commit suicide? Maybe "granted entry into Heaven," or simply "are still forgiven" would be better? Le Messor 02:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

broken link
Link for reference [1] goes to something else Wreader 00:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Additional source on Judaism
Years ago, I read an article by Fred Rosner in the book "Jewish Bioethics" that he co-edited with J. David Bleich on the subject of suicide in Jewish law. I don't have the book, but it may be a useful source. Shalom (Hello • Peace) 05:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Matthew in Old Testament?
The following sentence seems to suggest that Matthew is in the Old Testament - it's not! I'm not sure how best to change it though: "There were seven suicides in the Old Testament,[4] most notably in Matthew 27:3, the suicide of Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.78.44.65 (talk) 17:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Untitled
There are two articles on this subject, the other being Suicide and religion. Is anybody against merging these two pages?

--user:c_mon January 19 2006, 21u51
 * I would have been against merging this to "religious views of suicide". But keeping it to suicide and religion. Since we need to include one about religious belief and current statistics. Faro0485 (talk) 01:03, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Buddhism
This section seems to be a haphazard collection of unjustified generalizations from what some particular Buddhists may think. Peter jackson (talk) 11:41, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Grammar in Buddhism section
Further more, this sentence is not grammatically correct. I cannot make out what it is trying to get across:

"For Buddhists, since the first precept is to refrain from the destruction of life, including oneself, suicide is clearly seen as a negative form of action. Some said the soul would repeat the suicide action every 7 days until find another die unnaturally then reincarnate to a short and unnaturally died life or when his life end without suicide.[8][9]" 131.104.167.81 (talk) 20:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Religion, Law and Suicide
What effects did religious opinion have on the decriminalisation of suicide in different western societies? This could be worth an additional section. Calibanu (talk) 00:46, 1 July 2013 (UTC)User Calibanu

I'm Wondering
Im Roman Catholic. It's says if a person commits suicide, they go to Hell. What is they do it to save some 1 else's life? (Like that guy from the movie "Independence Day", when the pilot/father killed himself by flying into the enemy ship. The guy I'm talking about, I believe his last line was "Im Back!".)
 * That's not suicide -- it's sacrifice. There's a big difference.  Similarly, a soldier who takes a grenade for his team or a captain who destroys his ship rather than let it fall into enemy hands is committing an act of heroism, not sin.  We have this on no less an authority than Jesus himself: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
 * I'm Catholic too, and I've always been uneasy with the idea that suicides are automatically damned. I don't think that's official doctrine anymore, but it never should have been in the first place.  God's forgiveness is infinite; the classic argument that a suicide can't repent because he's no longer alive ignores the fact that God is outside of time.  We can't presume to know someone's in Hell no matter what he's done.  ~ CZeke 03:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It's still considered a mortal sin but; "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives." -The Catechism 86.45.7.132 (talk) 20:11, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Sati defunct?
The article currently mentions that sati is defunct. Though illegal in India, it is not completely defunct culturally. 68.113.47.43 (talk) 22:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Currently, there's no mention at all of sati, sutee or suttee. Looks like someone has removed any mention. There's no discussion or explanation of the deletion here in Talk. There needs to be. There needs to be a mention of sati in the Hindu section if only to counterbalance the current, bland and unsupported opening statement insisting that In Hinduism, suicide is spiritually unacceptable. A link in support of the opening assertion, removed in any case by several sentences from the assertion, to the About Suicides in Hinduism web-page on the partisan Hindu website at http://www.hinduwebsite.com hardly constitutes a scholarly citation124.185.54.154 (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Buddhism does not condone suicide
Suicide causes immense suffering to the survivors.

At the heart of Buddhism is compassion and Lovingkindness, to refrain from causing harm.

Avoiding the taking of life is one key factor included in the Noble Eightfold Path, the equivalent of "thou shalt not kill."

Refraining from killing is again recognized as central because it is among the few vows or oaths expected of non-monastic practitioners.

Killing aside, the principal of non-harming is central to Buddhist ethics. Lovingkindness (metta) practice is directed as much toward oneself as toward others. Persons who seriously attempt suicide do so in a state of confusion and self-hatred, reflecting a failure of Lovingkindness toward the self. This failure is temporary. As reported by the New York Times, when interviewed a year or so after the failed attempt, these persons had moved on and realized they very much wanted life with all it's ups and downs. Often this realization arrived as a thunderclap of clarity at the very instant following, e.g., letting go of the bridge.

A Bodhisattva, the highest form of realized being, is said to be reborn (allegorically) solely to reduce the suffering of others -- whereas suicide increases it.

Therefore, modern Buddhism does not condone suicide.

Archaic fables from ancient cultures exist, spun by the successors claiming authority to teach Dharma through a suicided former leader. These fables glorifying him or justifying his sad choice should be identified as exactly that, and as not guiding, but anathema to, modern Buddhist understanding. Ocdcntx (talk) 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Did you want something changed in the article? — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 09:42, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I do think the article fails to apply non-harming in the context of suicide. However I lack at present the sources to make that point without inserting what would amount to original research until the sources were found.  Thanks for asking.Ocdcntx (talk) 21:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Complicated grief
A discussion of the ethical and moral dimensions requires a consideration of the emotional agony inflicted on the survivors.


 * Losing a loved to suicide is one is one of life's most painful experiences. The feelings of loss, sadness, and loneliness experienced after any death of a loved one are often magnified in suicide survivors by feelings of quilt, confusion, rejection, shame, anger, and the effects of stigma and trauma. Furthermore, survivors of suicide loss are at higher risk of developing major depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, and suicidal behaviors, as well as a prolonged form of grief called complicated grief. Added to the burden is the substantial stigma, which can keep survivors away from much needed support and healing resources.

Suicide bereavement and complicated grief

Ilanit Tal Young, PhD, et al.

Dialogues Clin Neurosci. 2012 Jun; 14(2): 177–186.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdcntx (talk • contribs) 21:28, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * This article is about religions, though, not morals and ethics in general. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 08:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Abu Dawud on suicide bombing
The "Abu Dawud" mentioned cannot be the one best known by that name – he died in 889. From whom does the quote come? topynate (talk) 02:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Accusations of terrorism unrelated to suicide.
The mention of Sheikh Nimr as a terrorist is highly suspect, and besides neither he nor his followers committed suicide attacks so such information is irrelevant to this article.

What is the point of referring to Nimr? Cchiare (talk) 03:35, 15 October 2017 (UTC)