Talk:Ren Gill/Archives/ 1

I have nothing useful to add but just wanted to thank those responsible for archiving this.
It looks fantastic! 72.24.119.118 (talk) 09:22, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Started stub for Sam Tompkins
A lot of Ren fans are also fans of his frequent collaborator Sam Tompkins. I've just started that article as a short stub, with enough general references to pass WP:GNG, but it could use some expansion. I'm a bit pressed for time currently, so can't quite get to it, but I figured I'd leave a note here given the likely crossover in interest. -- Jayron 32 13:42, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 21 August 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ren Gill.. A small majority favored the move. The new name complies with WP:NATDIS. The opposer did not cite any policy reasons against the move. EdJohnston (talk) 20:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Ren (British musician) → Ren Gill – Just gauging if there is any support for moving this article to the name Ren Gill (currently a redirect here) per WP:NATDIS, while he does primarily use his monymonous name "Ren", the last name is well known and well reported, and Wikipedia guidance says to prefer the use of natural language disambiguation over parentheticals. We have an available way to do that, just use the last name. Jayron 32 15:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Parham wiki (talk) 17:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No I don't see any reason to change it. He is known as Ren, everyone calls him Ren.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dalonev (talk • contribs) 07:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:NATDIS as per nom, and as used, for example by the BBC, indicating it is indeed used.  Dank Jae  18:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Wales has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Hip hop has been notified of this discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

History of the old redirect page that was at Ren Gill
Here are the history entries for the old talk page:

12:46, 4 March 2023‎ Xqbot t c block‎ m 83 bytes 0‎  Bot: Fixing double redirect to Ren (British musician) rollback: 1 edit× Tag: Redirect target changed

01:30, 1 March 2023‎ Kiwatts t c block‎ 83 bytes +83‎  Kiwatts moved page Ren Gill to Ren (British Musician): Add parentheses/disambiguator: People will search for him using his first name only, His stage name. The wikidata is Ren not Ren Gill. I had started a draft using Ren. Perhaps that is why they didn't use it. I will put my research here now. thank Tag: New redirect

Today's move discussion found consensus for the name Ren Gill. The old talk page was deleted per the article move. There was no meaningful content on the old redirect page that needed preserving. EdJohnston (talk) 20:46, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Reliable Sources Tag
I am thinking of removing the reliable sources maintenance tag. It was added by David Gerard at a time when the sourcing was still quite raw, and there were various self published sources whose reliability was, indeed, questionable. It is looking better now, although there are quite a few primary sources, but this is not the right tag to draw attention to those - and in any case, BLPs can have primary sources where the source is used to verify information about the subject. I am not familiar with all the sources on the page, but those I have checked appear to be reliable. The Youtube one seems iffy but my view is it is primary (an interview with the subject) and not unreliable. Are there any specific reliability issues anyone is concerned about now? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I would remove it. There are some good sources in the article now from main stream media and there are many more that have not even been added. Many of the less good sources could be replaced by better ones that are now available, if someone wants to get around to doing that. I really cannot be bothered anymore since that admin came here and removed months of work done here. (talk) 15:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that it should be removed. Mackey79 (talk) 17:41, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I also agree, it should be removed. (talk) 05:51, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll go ahead and remove it. If an editor wants to put it back, that is fine, but please also state in talk where the concerns are. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:00, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

= Ren's middle name = Ren's birth record states that his middle name is Erin, there was also a discussion about this when the page was starting off and one editor contacted Ren's father and ask him and he said it was Erin.Kiwatts has changed it to Eryn, citing a video of Ren spelling it out and a website using it. So has he had it changed legally from Erin to Eryn? Or does he just use Eryn? Do we go with his legal name as we know it or Eryn, which might or might not be his legal name. Dalonev
 * Will just add this from the first discussion on his name. "I just confirmed with Ren's father that his middle name is spelled Erin 184.164.126.167 (talk) 17:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)" Dalonev
 * There are various sources stating his name as either Erin or Eryn. Eryn would make more sense given the fact he's Welsh so I'm more likely to err on that side. Additionally, of course, if the man himself has specifically spelled his name out as being Eryn you should definitely be using that if it's been sourced (which I believe it has).
 * Not to try and rain on anyone's parade on that front as well, but we cannot take original research as fact. Unless there is an actual video proving this from his father, or some sort of news article from a reliable source that is an interview with his father stating that his name is legally Erin, we simply cannot add it. CommissarDoggoTalk?  02:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * We have official birth record link in the article stating he was born as Ren Erin Gill. Anyone can call themselves what they want but if we have no source to Eryn being his legal name, should we not use Erin? We could also put also known as Eryn.
 * Dalonev (talk) 03:08, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Both sources next to his name list his middle name as being Eryn, one from a media source and one directly from him during his 1 million subscriber livestream on YouTube. As far as I'm concerned, his word is more than enough. CommissarDoggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  03:15, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, will wait for more people to have their say but I will change his birth name back to Erin in the side menu because we know for a fact he was born Ren Erin Gill. Dalonev (talk) 03:39, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We don't actually know that was what what the parents intended his birth name to be. I am a very accomplished genealogist and I can tell you that transcription errors are much more common than you think, and that includes digital records, not just handwritten. Transcription errors on birth certificates occur for several reasons. I can also tell you from seeing during my research and personal experience with transcripts issues involving my full name. It is quite common but has an uncommon spelling and even when I verbally spell it to someone errors occur. It takes years to try to fix in a digital system and sometimes they still persist. Kiwatts (talk) 11:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It may also be Eryn on the original, especially if it was handwritten, and Erin in the index. This error is the most common type.  Kiwatts (talk) 11:09, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have a copy of the original record, it is Erin and also we have another editor who contacted Ren's father and he said it was also Erin(that might be original research but it also confirms that was his birth name). It seems to be that Ren has adopted Eryn as his middle name, if that is legal or not, that is what he wants to be known as now. So we can keep Eryn at the start of the article but his birth name is Erin. Also, these are not 19th century transcription errors, this is a birth record from 1990.
 * Dalonev (talk) 00:00, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I got curious and checked it up on Ancestry, it definitely checks out. I don't think you can see it unless you have an account or are on the Wikipedia Library, but he was born Ren Erin Gill and listed himself as such during the electoral register of 2003-2010. That is then two separate records that list that as his birth name.
 * That isn't to say that his taken name should be changed from Ren Eryn Gill to Ren Erin Gill, and I unfortunately do not have access to an image of the record (was not provided on the page), but it does say that his name at birth was Ren Erin Gill and he used said name as late as the 2003-2010 electoral register. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  00:08, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is already a link in the article to Genesreunited which shows his birth name as Erin, we have known this virtually since his wiki page was set up. Here is a link to the free BDM Index record of his birth. You can click on the View  the original on the page, it will download a copy of the original birth record page for you. https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=286163768:8042&d=bmd_1700485213&scan=1
 * Dalonev (talk) 01:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I was the one who found the record initially. We were trying to verify the birth date. The discussion on the spelling of his middle name back then occurred because everything else online had Eryn. I have an ancestry subscription but switched the source to one that could be viewed for free.
 * I'm fine with leaving things like they are now.. It makes the most sense.
 * I only wanted to mention records can be inaccurate, even digital ones, in case it does come out in an interview that there was an error. Kiwatts (talk) 07:26, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes you were the one who found the link to Genesreunited while searching for Ren Eryn Gill and left the name as Ren Eryn Gill even though your link said it was Ren Erin Gill. I was the one who changed it to Erin. :) Dalonev (talk) 10:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * can you share the video clip timestamp where he allegedly spells it with a y? I will post my screenshot of my chat with his dad somewhere and share the link, which I know isn't acceptable as a source, but perhaps it will set your mind at ease. Sra.Salsa (talk) 20:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfLh69oxXos Happens at 17:52 @Sra.Salsa.
 * We don't need a screenshot of his birth name as stated by his father, we already have it linked here, see reference 13. As stated prior, I also found his birth name on Ancestry.com. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  20:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ultimately, if you really wanted to make that edit, you could simply replace it with Ren Eryn Gill[references for chosen name] (born Ren Erin Gill, 29 March 1990)[references for birth name].
 * I think that would be acceptable. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  21:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree with you! The birth record is enough, but someone keeps changing it back. Sra.Salsa (talk) 21:15, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's primarily because you aren't taking into account the fact that he does have a chosen name that is documented by him; you're simply changing his name to Ren Erin Gill and calling it a day.
 * His birth record is enough to state that he was born Ren Erin Gill, his video made by him where he spells out his chosen middle name is enough to state that his chosen name is Ren Eryn Gill. <b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b><sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?  21:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I find the current edit an acceptable compromise. Thanks! Sra.Salsa (talk) 21:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * but, technically, doesn't that wording imply a legal name change, so perhaps it's more appropriate to put it in the "also known as" section? Sra.Salsa (talk) 21:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ren wants to be known as Ren Eryn Gill, that is documented now. Does not really matter if that is his legal name or not, many artists use other names. The article names look fine now in my opinion. Dalonev (talk) 08:46, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It is very simple to change your name in the UK. You can simply declare it (with two witnesses) or you can have it official recorded using an enrolled deed poll for 48.32 pounds Kiwatts (talk) 10:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Martin Gill YT community Sra.Salsa (talk) 21:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It's a reply on his first post on the community tab Sra.Salsa (talk) 21:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC)