Talk:Renminbi/Archive 2

1969
Just to satisfy my curiosity more than anything else, did anything happen in 1969 that could explain the comment in ? It's proven to be a very reliable source. Oh, and please don't assume anything you think is inaccurate to be misinformation. Call it wrong or mistaken but please don't just assume intent to deceive. Dove1950 (talk) 23:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * My apologies. I did not intend to imply an intention to deceive - merely the plain vanilla sense of "mistaken information".
 * I looked but couldn't find anything about 1969. Is there any way to contact the authors of the website to see their sources or what they had in mind? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 08:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

60% of Mongolia's cash circulation?
I'm not sure exactly what it means that the RMB occupies 60% of Mongolia's cash circulation. I live in Ulaanbaatar and I can say with certainty that the RMB is neither legal tender nor accepted here. It's very easy to change RMB into tugrik and vice versa, but that's not quite the same as saying that the RMB is in circulation. And by the way, I've also been to South Gobi province, and even there the tugrik is the normally accepted currency. Is there any source to prove the assertion in the article?

Bathrobe (talk) 04:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was the one who tagged this fact as citeneeded. I think I mya have found a source for it: a website of the Chinese government, which I'm not sure I immediately trust. I wouldn't at all mind seeing this fact go (I was rather skeptical of this fact when I couldn't find a single Mongolia tourism website that mentioned RMB, or for that matter any currency but the togrok). Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I second bathrobe (except that I don't live in Mongolia, I just sometimes travel there. Plus isn't Zamyn-Uud in East Gobi?). Maybe what they mean is that 60% of the money exchanges in Mongolia is between RMB and Togrog. This would at least sound plausible. Or maybe some of the really big deals are made with suitcases full of RMB? I will delete the statement for now. Yaan (talk) 08:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I cited it to People's Daily a year or more ago. It is referenced, http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200402/17/eng20040217_134974.shtml, but I've got no knowledge of why it should be a trusted reference. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)


 * They must have something wrong. That, or there is something that does not catch the eye of the ordinary foreigner. But I guess it is the former. Maybe it is just a printing error, but actually any two-digit number would come as a bit of a surprise to me. Maybe they just got some statistics wrong.
 * It might also be worth pointing out that in UB, exchanging Togrog for Yuan (or vice versa) is just as uncomplicated as exchanging Togrog for other currencies, like Dollar, Euro, Yen. It's not like in China where you have to bring your passport and fill in your place of residence.
 * Btw. Is the people's daily writing that North Korea borders China, or that North Korea borders Mongolia? Yaan (talk) 18:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Reads rather ambiguously. It's obviously a translation from Chinese, and strange things can happen in translation, especially if the style editor correcting the English doesn't have much idea, either.


 * It's quite plausible that 60% of something is RMB (money flowing in, money being changed...), but 60% of money in circulation is palpably wrong. Even a foreigner can tell when money is "in circulation" (for instance, in Macau, where the HK dollar is almost completely interchangeable with the Pataca, except for that HK$10 coin, which for some reason is unacceptable). If RMB was "in circulation" you could just pull it out and it would be accepted anywhere just like tugriks, and that's definitely not the case. (If you like, I can test it out by buying dinner tonight with RMB :) )


 * Bathrobe (talk) 04:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No need for that. I could try it out next time I am in Mongolia. Plus it is OR anyway ;). Actually, I paid a small part of my last Mongolian visa in Yuan. But that was in Zamyn-uud, and the rate offered by the officer was not really favourable. Yaan (talk) 12:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

16% or 18.37%?
The NYT is correct. The RMB has increased by roughly 16% since the removal of the peg. When the peg was removed, the rate was set at 8.11 and it has increased about 16% since then. The 18.37% increase is relative to the higher rate before the removal of the peg.

Anyway, if you still disagree, you should get a citation for your source. It's not acceptable to remove a cited statement from one of the world's finest newspapers and replace it with calculations of your own. See the no original research policy. Terence7 (talk) 04:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding me of the NOR policy.

Basically, this is simply a difference in the perception of what marks the beginning of the removal of the peg.

Since the PBC's statement in the announcement regarding this issue is rather ambiguous and has therefore resulted in disagreements, both numbers should be equally acceptable. But consindering the official opinion from the Chinese government, 18.37%, thus the 8.2765 rate, is used in calculation and more widely known to the general public through offcial channels like CCTV and many others.

To support a more prevalent perception, I've included a citation from Xinhua News Agency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Delfman (talk • contribs) 06:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yi language
The article says:
 * The denomination and the words "China People's Bank" are also given in Yi, Mongol, Tibetan, Uyghur and Zhuang on the back of each banknote.

I couldn't find Yi writing neither in modern Yi script nor in Latin script anywhere on the images of banknotes to which the article links.

There are three possibilities:
 * There's no Yi at all on Chinese banknotes
 * There's classical Yi script and i don't identify it
 * There are images of banknotes with Yi which i haven't seen yet

For now i mark it as "citation needed", and i'll remove it if no sources are added within reasonable time.

If anyone knows for sure that there never was any Yi writing on Renminbi, be bold and remove it now. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I put on a scan. Now you can check it for yourself. Heilme (talk) 20:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't find it. Am i missing something? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, for the misunderstanding. What I mean is that I put on a scan of the banknote (10 RMB reverse) in the article, so you can check the languages used. I am no saying that there is a Yi script. In fact, I think there isn't. Heilme (talk) 17:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 06:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Markup
I pulled out a line just now. Its contents were:

This combination of unicode symbols means something along the lines of "State and an overview of the first set of RMB" or "With country first set of Renminbi outline" according to translators online that try to render these non-ASCII symbols into English text, so I'm not too sure what it was originally a part of, or why it was there. I didn't see it in the last weeks worth of edits.

Since the symbols aren't part of the Alphabet, nor are they part of the ASCII standard, searching for the source of them seems like an unpleasant task. Perhaps someone else can figure out why that was there and what the rest of the reference used to be? Zaphraud (talk) 20:19, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Ref 3: "中华人民共和国第一套人民币概述" (General Introduction to the First Series of the Renminbi of the People's Republic of China) --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Design/series
I am thinking of shortening the design/series section. For a currency collector, that would be a wealth of information, but for a layman, I think it could be confusing and so I think that describing the current series is more than sufficient. The other, previous, design series should be linked to their respective main article. Anyone disagree? -Heilme (talk) 01:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Exchange rate of the dollar vs. the renminbi
"The Chinese government has also claimed that, while the PRC runs a large surplus with respect to the United States, its overall balance of payments is not out of balance." i am not sure if this is correctly worded. what does " balance of payments not being out of balance "supposed to mean? china runs a surplus on both the capital and current accounts. it therefore has a positive BOP. Avataran

"The PRC government has also claimed that, while mainland China runs a large surplus with respect to the United States, its overall balance of payments is not out of balance."

I think what this intends to say is that China's overall current account surplus is fairly modest. A country's balance of payments is a table which shows its current account, capital account + any adjustment terms. By construction,for any country, current account surplus = capital account deficit + any adjustmetn terms. What does it mean to say that '(China's) overall balance of payments is not out of balance'? funkydoodle

I think what it meant was that even though China runs a large surplus against the US, it runs a deficit against some other countries, so the overall balance of its trade status is more modest. zhouij

A question about this exchange rate stuff:

When a country devalues it's money, do some types of debt go away, beacuse the dollar it owes is worth less that before? America seems to have been trying to devalue the dollar (did you know a slice of pizza went up 20 cents in the past year?), and it makes sense with the type of deficit Bush has racked up. And I heard China is the big buyer of American bonds. So by inflating the dollar, we should be taking money from the Chinese to pay our deficit, no? But it doesn't work because the Yuan is pegged to the dollar. That must be why we want them to revalue? GWC 24.193.79.69 03:10, 13 January 2005 (UTC)

Valuation
hmm,I think there is no doubt that Renminbi is really undervalued. PRC does not have a real market economy. It politically controls the exchange rate of the dollar vs. the renminbi, and deprives its citizens and workers of rights. This is a unjust competition. Maybe the best way is to impose sanction against it ,and there will be a huge number of unemployed chinese very quickly, which is impossible to take for chinese government.Thus chinese government has no other choice but adopts the real market economy.


 * After China joined the WTO, are they supposed to follow some regulations? Many critics complain that China is not playing a fair game.


 * If lets say they allow the RMB to float, at what rate is US supposed to pay for the current United States treasury bonds that China is holding. Also, i think most people are being unfair to China. You don't just wake up one day and float a currency. The process has to be sequenced and timed properly, otherwise they will fuck up their well executed market transition. And yeah, i know US and the rest of the world is hurting, Chinese government is there for China, not for the rest of the world. If all the rest decide to sell their citizen to special interest, don't come around and start blaming China when life get hard.


 * My guess is, the peg will stay in place until after the banking sector mess is cleared up. Since bank privatization take place 2008, the floating may end up happening in 2010 to 2012. Offcause that assumes there isn't some Chinese special interest pushing for unreasonable sequencing

--

From 1999/01/01 to 2004/04/18 the interbank exchange rate from FXHistory has been US$1=8.2836±0.0064 yuan (pegged to US$ since 1995) except for one two-week period around 1999/12/05 when it was 8.2371. The exchange rate for tourists using US dollars to buy renminbi (cash to cash) will be almost 1% lower at the People's Bank Of China. Joe Kress 18:04, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)

Is there anything to say on the exchange rate of Renminbi to EURO ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.29.77.101 (talk) 11:11, 14 April 2005 (UTC)

Unofficial Users / Use outside mainland China
Judging by the article text in the section Renminbi, Taiwan is no more (and probably less) of an unofficial user of Renminbi than Cambodia, Nepal, Laos, Myanmar or Vietnam. Therefore I have removed Taiwan from the list of Unofficial Users in the infobox. --69.105.29.215 (talk) 17:13, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Coin and banknote use frequency
In the infobox it says this: Coins Freq. used	¥0.1, ¥0.2, ¥0.5, ¥1 Rarely used	¥0.01, ¥0.02, ¥0.05 Banknotes Freq. used	¥2, ¥5, ¥10, ¥20, ¥50, ¥100 Rarely used	¥0.1, ¥0.2, ¥0.5, ¥1 Well that's not totally true - the parts that I doubt are bolded. I live in Chinese mainland and in recent years, I've never seen ¥0.01, ¥0.02, ¥0.05 coins, nor a ¥0.2 one, let alone it being "freq. used". These are no longer even produced. Also, the ¥0.5 and ¥1 banknotes are very frequently used - much, much more frequently than the ¥50 and ¥100 ones I'd say. If no one opposes, I think we should change/remove the information (it's not cited thus unreliable anyways). Wyvernoid (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've never seen a ¥0.2 coin, either. A note, yes, but not a coin. As for and ¥0.01 and ¥0.05, I've never actually used them in circulation, but I do receive them from banks from time to time, meaning that "rarely used" is correct. ¥0.5 and ¥1 notes should indeed be listed as commonly used, as should ¥0.1, which are, at least in my city, very commonly used. (In my city, coins are used much less than notes.) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 06:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with that, but citations for all claims should be put if possible. My step mum always goes to china and brings back banknotes to the value of 0.1 to 100 Yuan, Also the 2 Yuan I have not seen, does that still circulate? Enlil Ninlil (talk) 06:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a bit hard to cite frequency of usage for coins and notes, as there isn't a heck of a lot of coverage of that topic. Still, we can certainly look around. The 2 yuan note is getting rare, and I haven't seen it in a while. I think it's a bit premature to call it out of circulation at this point, though. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 06:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and about the 1, 2 and 5 fen coins: I only get these when exchanging currency. I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the only ways you get an amount with a number in the second decimal place. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes references are hard and for most currencies you wont find them, but the Yuan might be an exception. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 10:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Yuan Symbol
The article was using the symbol for yen (¥ / &#65509) as the currency symbol for CNY. Based on some research that I've been trying to undertake, this is an inaccurate symbol, even though the current Unicode standard would seem to indicate otherwise. Anyone know for certain what the accepted international standard is for the symbol? I've seen Y suggested in multiple sources, but I'd like confirmation. --Dante Alighieri 00:18 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was actually Googling about financial sites, and the only symbols I saw was the Japanese yen used in place of the Renminbi, sometimes distinguished by saying "RMB Y". In any case, "Y" and all its incarnations seem to be reserved for Yen, and despite RMB currency are counted in Y(uan) as well, it is left without special symbol. Taiwan also calls it currency New Taiwan Dollar "yuan" as well, and we always symbolize (when not using the Chinese character &#20803;) as $, never Y. But internationally, I don't know how they are used, maybe $RMB or RMB$ --Menchi 00:27 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Here's a Simplified Chinese page (from the PRC) that says "RMB&#65509;". --Menchi 00:30 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Well, that's as clear as mud. :) Oh well, I suppose we should just use the &#20803 symbol, since we can, and be done with it. While we're at it, should we be calling it CNY or RMB? --Dante Alighieri 00:59 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Should we use the &#20803 character as the symbol? Because it's not really a symbol like $ or ¥ are. Again, I cannot speak for RMB, but for New Taiwan Dollar, if I remember correctly, in accounting and things like that, they just use $. I don't know how Taiwanese accountants disambiguate New Taiwan $ from US $, though.


 * I don't think normal people use CNY....


 * --Menchi 01:09 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I suppose we could just duck the whole issue by saying stuff like "12,543.34 yuan" instead of trying to throw a symbol in front of 12,543.34. It's  not much different than saying "143,000 dollars" instead of "$143,000"....


 * We probably shouldn't be deciding this on our own... :) It seems that we could use a Wikipedia-wide usage guide on currency symbols. There are lots of issues to discuss, like the proper way of labelling dollars as US dollars or other dollars, for example. I don't recall the format for naming those sorts of discussion pages though... I'll go look. Create a link here if you decide to create the page before I do. --Dante Alighieri 01:13 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I just created Naming conventions (currency). Let's see if we can build some consensus there. --Dante Alighieri 01:17 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * In the PRC, they use the yen symbol to mark prices. -- Roadrunner


 * 1 or 2 strokes? --Menchi 03:33 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * 2 if I remember right which I might not.


 * I've seen a lot of signs all around China with one stroke on the Y.... alerante | Talk 01:39, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I made two charts which represent how the disputed signs are displayed in the browser. There are two Unicode entities pointing to the Yen sign, one is Yen Sign (&#165; / &amp;#165;), the other is the Fullwidth Yen Sign (&#65509; / &amp;#65509;).

The following chart varies the font instead of language code. Note that some of the font might not have the actually glyph, most modern browsers would try to substitute the glyph from another font.

--&#31354;&#21521; 09:11, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

The official (and preferred symbol) for the Yuan (currency unit) is 元. &yen; may be used when the 元 symbol is not available, such as when using Extended ASCII, or Latin fonts not containing the 元 symbol. See for example http://www.boc.cn/bocinfo/bi1/200903/t20090310_613299.html (from Bank of China) and http://www.xe.com/symbols.php. Unless there are objections the Renminbi currency unit should be listed as 元. AdeBarkah (talk) 05:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Both are commonly used; in fact, I frequently see them both used at the same time (for example, on train tickets in China, the price is written as &yen;300元. I don't think we should remove &yen;, but reflecting 元 also would probably be a good idea. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The Correct one is with one stroke only. I have changed all the yen symbols to the Kazakh Short U in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lr4087 (talk • contribs) 04:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd always assumed the two were interchangeable, but perhaps I was wrong. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 04:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, no, this is not the case. How do I know? Look at 100 yuan note of the 2005 series and take a good look at an angle at the security thread. It says "&yen;300100". If it's on the currency itself, it's fair to say it's the right symbol. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 16:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, I'm a Brit who's lived in Beijing for years and have never once seen the Yen symbol being used for RMB. The ONLY symbol ever used is 元 (for readers without characters installed, it looks like the Greek letter Pi but with an extra line across the top). If people can't type the proper symbol, they either put "RMB" or "Yuan" not use the Yen symbol.

I've used Wikipedia for years and this is the most inaccurate article I've ever seen.

Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.126.92.228 (talk) 05:28, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, that's simply not true. As I've pointed out, it's on the bills themselves, and it's also on China Railways tickets. The character is certainly much more common, but &yen; is definitely used. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 07:42, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Fen, Jiao, & Mao
Currently the article has
 * The fen and jiao have become increasingly unnecessary as prices have increased. Chinese retailers tend to avoid decimal values (such as ¥9.99), opting instead for integer values of yuan (such as ¥9 or ¥10

It's be sourced, but it's still inaccurate. Chinese retailers almost never use centesimal values (or, by extension, the fen coins'', but they have no problem whatsoever with using decimal values or jiao. As this experience prevails in Shanghai, one of the more expensive Chinese cities, it must be even more the case inland. -LlywelynII (talk) 06:06, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right. I've often been annoyed with this explanation as not so much inaccurate as inadequate. There are, of course, many places where all prices are in integers. In general, I only spend one-jiao notes (coins are all but unknown in Guangdong) at places that deal in small goods, such as supermarkets and convenience stores, but still, this is not sufficient to suggest they are unnecessary. I use five-jiao notes even more frequently, as many places will price things with a jiao value of 5 even if not any other jiao-value (McDonald's being one example). So yes, this fact is just wrong. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 10:37, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Yuan vs. Renminbi
The Chinese Yuan page describes the difference between the two terms, but this page does not. In either location, the two words seem to be used interchangeably. Can this distinction be clarified? Marzolian (talk) 14:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuan is the unit, and Renminbi is the name of the currency. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 15:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

you have 'RMB' in the article and you never explained what it means.
--195.74.248.144 (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * RMB is just an acronym for Renminbi

Merge request
I think this article should be merged with yuan. Of the two, it is clearer, and the content overlap is substantial. The yuan article has slightly more historical content, but not enough to justify a completely separate article.
 * No. Yuan is the unit, and Renminbi is the name of the currency. Yuan and RMB are not supposed to be interchangable, but unfortunately many English-language texts like to make that mistake. RMB only refers to the currency used by the PRC; Yuan refers to any type of monetary form, whether it be republican or some other era; the Japanese Yen uses the same Kyujitai character for yuan, as does the Korean Won. In everyday language, "American yuan" (美元; meiyuan) refers to the US Dollar, and "European yuan" (欧元 ouyuan) refers to the Euro; yuan can have a large variety of definitions, but it cannot be equated with RMB. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 15:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Objectivity and POV Neutrality
I am new to this entry, so I have not immediately made any change. In reading it, however two things immediately caught my eye. In the main body, the word "unrealistically" seems rather "unneutral"(!), e.g. the case of: "Initially, the exchange rate was unrealistically high"

Later, in the body of the section "Depegged from the US Dollar" I remain unconvinced of the use of the terms "simply" and "currency war." e.g. "However China has simply shifted their reserves from dollar accounts to accounts in their competitor nations, leading these other nations to invest in dollars to keep their own currencies down. The result has been an international currency war"(with footnote)

I recognize, in the current period there is certainly a range of important effects and counter effects occurring as a consequence of significant fluctuations/revaluations in/of major currencies, and even sovereign interventions, but that hardly seems cause for a neutral, fact based source like WP to use the word "war" (though that time MAY come!), particularly if it is based upon the comments (even if footnoted) of a single finance minister from a country which is facing export challenges as a result of the vicissitudes of global currency markets.

My concern with "simply" is that even if China had shifted all of "its reserves" to accounts in competitor nations, it would not be "simple," and furthermore, it didn't happen. I am convinced that somewhere there are still a few Chinese Treasury accounts denominated in Renminbi. Perhaps the insertion of some words like "allegation" near the word "war," and some quantitative reference to whatever value the Chinese purportedly "shifted" could at least buy some time until a major re/work is done?? Would use of data from footnote 34 (a blog, but from WSJ) be sufficient? Comments?? GrinchPeru (talk) 22:31, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

500 USD per day limit
In the past, I've always been limited to purchasing 500 USD per day at Bank of China, which agrees with the text of this article. Today, though, I was allowed to buy nearly thrice that much for the first time ever. Does anyone know if there's been a change in the laws? Heimstern Läufer (talk) 15:25, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

With the ending of both the Olympics and the World Expo there has been a sudden change again in exchange of USD and RMB with the ability to change funds becoming more tight in many cases and banks in Shanghai sometimes turning people away from making exchanges. Since I do not have documentation on this but only empirical evidence I will not submit the information to the formal entry. But it raises a few questions in light of a weakening Dollar. Some air that some of the Expat population has here concerning the tightening control of RMB and USD exchange in somewhat reminiscent of the attitudes people had towards exchanging of funds in 2000 and before. I would speculate that the black market exchange will open again in China, good for Expats as well as those Chinese business men seeking to flee the country. But then again. . . this is only speculation and discussion. . . right? Greenlionrampant (talk) 07:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Writie for clarity, please: "principal unit"?
"The Renminbi (sign: ¥; code: CNY) is the official currency of the People's Republic of China (PRC), whose principal unit is the Yuan."

What is "principal unit" even supposed to mean? Does it mean the Renminbi is some multiple of the Yuan? Is one Renminbi the same as one yuan? Is renminbi supposed to refer to all the units (yuan, jiuo, etc). Then does it just mean "PRC money"?

A reader should not have to be asking these questions and shouldn't have to read past the first paragraph to find the answer.

CountMacula (talk) 12:31, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yuan is a unit, like metres, kilograms, pascals. Renminbi is a currency, like US Dollar, Russian ruble and Euro.
 * For the unit Yuan, 100 fen units make a yuan unit; 10 fen units make a mao unit, and 10 mao units make one yuan unit. If I had 37,000 fen, that would equal 3,700 mao, or 370 yuan.
 * 370 yuan and 25 fen is the "counting way" of saying RMB¥370.25, similar to how "Ten dollars and fifteen cents" is how you would render US$10.15. In this case, dollar and cent are the names of the units, whilst US Dollar is the name of the currency. Currencies and monetary units do not necessarily equate per se (i.e. not have the same definition).
 * Just like how you'd count your coins and notes in dollars and cents at the supermarket, but have trades for US Dollars on the stock market/currency exchange, the currency renminbi is what you would refer to the thing that you financially exchange on the market, whilst yuan refers to the individual coins that you take out of your wallet when you buy bananas. Do you call the notes in your pocket "United States Dollars", or just dollars? Same deal. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 13:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * English makes this distinction much less clearly than Chinese does, which is part of why the confusion arises. There's really no way around it, either; it's just the way the words are used. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 15:26, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

This might explain a bit better than I do: Stephen Mulvey, 26 June 2010, Why China's currency has two names - BBC News --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 06:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, for many people it's still not clear what the difference is. I mean, if the yuan refers to the coins and banknotes (the actual money people are paying with), shouldn't there be some more info about the yen and the won? The renminbi is the Chinese currency, the Japanese yen is the Japanese currency, and the Korean won is the Korean currency, but they all pay with the yuan/yen/won (it all originates from the same currency, doesn't it?). I mean, isn't it the same with the franc (formerly used in many countries), the krona/kroon/koruna/ etc. (still used in many countries), the florin, the mark, etc. etc.?? Robster1983 (talk) 09:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It's mostly due to historical and political contexts. Renminbi (人民币) literally means "People's currency", similar to how Renmin Gongheguo (人民共和国) means "People's Republic", Renmin Zhanzheng (人民战争) means "People's War", Renmin Yinhang (人民银行) means "People's Bank" - it belongs to one of those communist/socialist contexts. Here, Renmin (人民) means people or populace, and Bi (币) means currency, and it is differentiated from other historical Chinese currencies, such as the Yuan used during the early Republic of China (1912-1949) era. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 11:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole issue is explained quite clearly in various articles, including the "etymology" section of this one. Readers often don't realise this. Fundamentally it's a matter of language and culture. In Asia the concepts of the currency and the units of the currency have often historically been separate. This is not usually the case in the West, and I get the feeling that many readers don't realise that such a distinction is possible. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

More coin detail required
The article needs coin specifications (width, thickness, weight) to be tabulated, and photographs of them. — O'Dea 04:43, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, there is little mention of the fen. Though it is little used now it would still be accurate to make mention as well as include a picture for information.Greenlionrampant (talk) 07:43, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

potential Wall Street Journal resources
99.19.40.123 (talk) 10:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Tokyo and Beijing Agree on Currency Pact 27.December.2011 by LINGLING WEI and BOB DAVIS from Beijing and TAKASHI NAKAMICHI from Tokyo; excerpt ...
 * U.S. Criticizes Japan, China on Currencies 28.December.2011 by TOM BARKLEY and SUDEEP REDD

Name
Renminbi Literally means "Peoples money" Please add that. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.169.226 (talk) 20:05, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be "Renminqian". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Why the Japanese monetary symbol?
After 5 years in China, I have never seen "¥" (the symbol for Japanese Yen) written to show prices. It has always been "元". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.3.27.95 (talk) 03:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's definitely used in some areas, such as Guangzhou. I've seen it a million times. It's also used on the bills themselves; have a look at the silver holographic tape that goes down the middle of a 100-yuan bill. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 04:54, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Same here. Go to any store in Beijing and the price tags read something like "¥15.00". Same goes for any McDonald's or KFC outlet. --  李博杰  &#124; —Talk contribs email 09:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Stores are required by regulations to use the ¥ symbol on standard price tags. I am very curious as to where the OP had been for those five years that never uses the ¥ symbol to show prices! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:38, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

potential resource
The Future of the Yuan; China’s Struggle to Internationalize Its Currency by Sebastian Mallaby and Olin Wethington Foreign Affairs January/February 2012 99.19.44.155 (talk) 17:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Capitalise or not?
In the lead it is capitalised. Later it isn't. Which is correct? Whichever it is it should be consistent. Huw Powell (talk) 00:11, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I tried doing some searches on news websites (BBC, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC) to see what's used, and it seems that the lower-case is most commonly used (annoyingly, though, it wasn't consistent; I found at least a few on each with the capital version). I would go with the lowercase, myself, though; I can't see why it would be a proper noun, any more than one would say "US Dollar" or "Japanese Yen" rather than "US dollar" and "Japanese yen". Heimstern Läufer (talk) 03:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Year of Banknote Print
I am trying to learn why all the banknotes I saw on a recent visit to China all had a 2005 year stamp on them. The US dollar prints the year it was made, and as far as I can tell this either means the Chinese government printed a bunch of money in 2005 then stopped or they just print the year of the design on there instead. I'm gifting a set of one of each of their available currency to my father, a coin/bill collector, and I would love to be able to give him the full story on it. I'm going to keep digging and update the article itself if I find anything worth adding. Nathan (talk) 18:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

In the foreign exchange market, Chinese RMB share of the global market is even lower than India Rupee?
We can check the data here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market 219.151.157.113 (talk) 05:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

RMB
Where does the abbreviation RMB come from? The article repeatedly uses this abbreviation with no explanation and no sources. I know where CNY comes from (ISO 4217) - what's the rationale for using some other (unspecified and unsourced) designation? Roybadami (talk) 20:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * RMB - RenMinBi. Does it need any more explanation? Nathan (talk) 18:07, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. Why is it used when the ISO code is CNY? Does it have some official status? Should it be used at all? Should there be some standard for picking one over the other? 153.133.149.186 (talk) 12:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Well renminbi is the Mandarin word for the currency; Yuan (Chinese Yuan - CNY) is the pinyin for the word. Apparently CNH is also used.  I think it is when the currency is traded in Hong Kong.  If you want some more details try this link: http://www.ecrresearch.com/chinas-currency-rmb-cny-cnh .  Someone can integrate the information from that link into the page if it is seen as necessary. Nathan (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Etymology section belongs in the Yuan article
The etymology section deals with the etymology of yuan, which is not the title/topic of the article. That section should be moved to Chinese yuan. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 17:37, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Ideograms
The frequent translations of terms into ideograms make the early part of the article hard to read. Strictly speaking they are all unnecessary (this is after all the English Wikipedia), but I can see that some people might find them useful. But could they not be brought together somewhere where they do not interrupt the main thrust of the article? Deipnosophista (talk) 13:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed that a bit by moving the abbreviations and codes to a separate argraph. On the other hand, the  boxes shoud be eliminated; they take up a lot of space for information that is partly redundant with the text, and belongs to the Wikitionary, not to Wikipedia. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 17:42, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Nickname
Suggest we add Redback to the nickname of the RMB, similar to the greenback for the US dollar. http://www.economist.com/node/17959580 --85.27.175.190 (talk) 07:35, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Article out of date
Needs updating re Russia Saint Aviator  lets talk 07:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

CN¥ vs RMB
There is a discussion at Template talk:CNY about whether the template should display '¥100' or 'RMB 100'. Please feel free to discuss it there.  Stepho  talk 13:10, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

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Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe is listed as an official user of the currency, but on the Zimbabwe page there is no mention of this _at all_.
 * Seems to me this would belong on the actual Zimbabwe page - not necessarily here. Aleding (talk) 19:15, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

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Sterling comparison
It is pointed out in the second paragraph, that "The distinction between the terms "renminbi" and "yuan" is similar to that between sterling and pound, which respectively refer to the British currency and its primary unit." The source given for this is nominally a WSJ blog. Checking the source however, it is not the article itself that says this but what is essentially an anonymous comment. WP:IRS asks for reliable published sources, and I doubt this counts, so I have placed a citation needed tag there until a better source is provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.24.130 (talk) 04:36, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * done--86.179.100.206 (talk) 07:20, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I just read that sentence about sterling and pound myself, but had a slightly different problem with it. The definition explains that renminbi is a sort of collective noun for yuan. I'm not sure exactly what the proper gramatical decription is. However, later in the article the word 'renminbi' is used synonymously with 'Yuan', eg 3rd para "Until 2005, the value of the renminbi was pegged to the US dollar,"have caused the renminbi to be...". It is not possible to construct a sentence 'Until 2000, the value of the sterling was pegged to the US dollar." Thus 'sterling' and 'Remnimbi' are plainly not equivalent. There is a mistake in either the explanation or usage of the word in the article.


 * I think that 'sterling is always used as a unique plural. Thus you could say, 'The value of barley fell on the market', 'the value of sterling fell'. You could not say 'I bought four barleys' or 'I bought four sterlings'. Sandpiper (talk) 06:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

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Verb Disagreement in Second Paragraph
Renmimbi is first treated as a singular, and then treated as a plural, in this single sentence, resulting in awkward phrasing (even though the form of the word is invariable); can it be fixed? "Renminbi is sometimes accepted in Hong Kong and Macau, and are easily exchanged in the two territories, with banks in Hong Kong allowing people to maintain accounts in RMB." (Seems to me the plural sense works better in both clauses, but I am no expert.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.25.115.38 (talk) 23:41, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Pre-PRC communist coins.
Can I insert information on pre-1949 coins issued by the Communist Party of China into this article or does this only cover the currency from 1949 onwards? Would it fit in the history section? --58.187.171.100 (talk) 07:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

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"Chinese yuan"
I've always had an issue with the page "Chinese yuan" redirecting here, why? There are plenty of historical currencies with that name issued by the Republic of China and for some reason there doesn't seem to be a single page that covers the currency of China between 1912 and 1949, why is that? --Donald Trung (talk) 17:56, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

"The" renminbi?
For an English speaker, the very frequent but inconsistent use of "the renminbi" in this article is confusing, especially given the analogue to "sterling" as opposed to "pound". One never refers to "the sterling" in the sense of money; "pound" is countable in units, whereas "sterling" is not. Looking back to a 2013 version of the page, there are some, but fewer, references to "the" renminbi. (There's also presently inconsistent capitalization, as "Renminbi".) If I understand what the article is trying to say in distinguishing between "renminbi" and "yuan", it seems there is no such thing, in English, as "the renminbi", since it's not a unit of anything. However, Wictionary disagrees with this interpretation, giving not only the plural form as "renminbis" but also asserting that "yuan" is a synonym. Merriam-Webster is no more clear, stating that the form "renminbi" itself is the plural, and defining the term as "the official currency of the PRC consisting of yuan". This definition would suit the analogy to "sterling"; but a plural form further confuses the matter. Then their two recent examples given appear to more-or-less agree with Wiktionary: On Tuesday, the renminbi had lost a little more ground against the dollar, and The yuan, also known as the renminbi, has been slipping steadily against the dollar since April. Overall, this sounds to me like a language problem between Chinese and English, as to whether "renminbi" is or is not countable in units, as well as a confusion in English-language usage where the term "renminbi" is widely but incorrectly used to mean "yuan". Or maybe I'm misapprehending the whole issue. Can anyone help? Milkunderwood (talk) 00:43, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * But you'd say "the pound sterling", wouldn't you? Or "the Hong Kong dollar". Would those be closer analogies? How else would you say the equivalent of "The renminbi is issued by", than as "The pound sterling is issued by"? — kwami (talk) 03:04, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You're right – "the pound sterling" would be a much closer analogue than simply "sterling" alone, which is not countable in units. And certainly "The renminbi is issued by" works. But I think we still have the problem of renminbi not being countable – unless, in Chinese grammar, it is. (And many thanks for your response.) Milkunderwood (talk) 03:50, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

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CNY or RMB ?
The ISO 4217 code for this currency is ‘CNY’, not the mis-capitalised abbreviation ‘RMB’. On this page should almost all non-quoted instances of “RMB” be changed to “CNY”. I believe so. Is there passionate dissent? JDAWiseman (talk) 14:40, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

redback
This one sentence seems totally random and it isn't explained why it's named after a spider. It's probably just one author calling it this way for attention and it probably has a negative connotation. --147.142.69.127 (talk) 13:21, 20 January 2020 (UTC)


 * It's nothing to do with the spider. It's a cited usage (see the source), and is mentioned in bold as per WP:LEAD for alternative names. If you look at the Redback disambiguation page, you will see it there alongside other known uses of the term. Hope that helps. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 23:23, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Former use in Taiwan and Hong Kong
This article claims that the RMB was previously used in Taiwan and Hong Kong. Is this true? I am unable to find evidence for this claim, and I find it unlikely considering that Hong Kong and the ROC have long had their own currencies. I will remove the language within a few days unless someone is able to provide evidence to support these claims.  Mysterymanblue  14:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)