Talk:Republic Protests/Archive 1

Comments
I also think that the title should be the "republican protest", otherwise it may be understood as if people are protesting against republic. --Firez2006 21:15, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That would be a poor translation. That would translate back to turkish as "Cumhuruiyetciler mitingi" which is not the name of the protests. -- Cat chi? 02:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Title in translation?
Does the title translate into English? "Republican ..."? – Kaihsu 15:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It should be something like "Watch After the Republic".

Ben translate ettim benden sonra biri daha iyi translate etmis. Resim bulmaya calisiyorum ama bulamiyorum... niye hic bir gazetenin internet sitesinde hic bir resim yok? --User:evilturtlefromhell 15:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Watch after and protect are the same thing. So.. yeah.

Picture
The caption under the third picture reads "Fanatic islamic terrorists in the large square before the Anıtkabir" which doesn't correspond to the article content and is overly judgmental, I sugest replacing 'Fanatic islamic terrorists' by 'Turkish demonstrators' CyberTrokair 11:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well ok I put in a picture. But I don't really know how to work the wiki html so someone make it look good. --Evilturtlefromhell 16:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I have many photographs taken from TV about this protest. I wonder whether it would be possible loading them. If someone can inform regarding this, that would be great. Thanks!, -- Bahar (Spring in Turkish)  &#9997;  16:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC), tr:Kullanıcı:Bahar101 (more active here)

If you want to upload TV-screen shots, you can use this licence: Bronks 17:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

tv-screenshot

No, you cannot use them, that would be copyvio (see the criteria explained in the box above). Is there nothing on Flickr or something, where you could ask the photographer to license it under a creative commons license?--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 17:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Well the pictures all fine and dandy..but demonstrators is spelled wrong.

And oh yeah it's up for deletion. --evilturtle 18:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Help yourselves if you need pics: (kutukagan 22:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC))


 * Can we use them? What is the licensing situation for them? Baristarim 14:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Turkish native speaker wanted
Could someone with knowledge of image licensing explain my comment here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hasanoglanli/458939297/? This would get us an excellent picture for the article Protect Your Republic Protest.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 07:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

not a current event
this event is not a current event, it's a PAST event. it was yesterday. please stop tagging it as current. the ongoing talks about wether Erdogan must/can be president is a current event. it must have it's own article and THAT article must/can be tagged as a current event. --85.102.180.116 17:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * On wikipedia we tag recent events (like stuff that happened last week) as a current event. Please do not remove the template. -- Cat chi? 17:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I don't see any reason why this should have a separate article at all. Put it in the aticle about the election, and/or the article about Erdogan. --dllu 22:57, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree - this is more useful within the presidential election article. --Buyoof 23:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree...this can easily be merged and made into a section of the presidential election article. Jmlk17 03:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree - This should be merged with the election article. --Toxicroak 06:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This is the largest protest in Turkish history so it is notable enough to have its own article - notice how long articles on the cited sources are. The article has been recently initiated so give it time to develop. Smaller protests have their own articles, I do not see why this shouldn't. The protest itself isn't very relevant to the election itself - it isn't a part of the process. It isn't just relevant to Erdogan either he and his party is the subject of the protest. -- Cat chi? 10:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Also I feel the article should cover the issues that lead to the demonstration as well as the demonstration itself. I am working on this but I need time. -- Cat chi? 12:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

This's a significant event. Largest protest in Turkish history. Keep seperate. 85.104.42.229 15:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * But what's interesting is not the demonstration on its own, so much as the reason for it (is there an article on the Turkish constitution?).
 * Anyway, I've removed my merge suggestion again. I'll let this take its natural course, and maybe put the suggestion up again after the election. --dllu 17:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - This is a world-wide recognised thing, it was all the BBC talked about in Malaysia. Highly notable. If 200,000 people attended, it must be somewhat significant. Twenty Years 15:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This article should be kept seperate. Basar Kizildere 08:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This article is not just about elections or Erdogan, its much for than that Korrybean 00:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

citations needed
I put two citation needed templates on the page. Even though there are cited sections in the same paragraph, those particular sentences are uncited, as they contain allegations against Mr. Erdoğan citations for those sections are of dire importance. Please do refrain from removing the templates as removing those templates without properly citing those sections would be outright vandalism. Peace. --88.245.114.193 07:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please move uncited information to talk instead. As a new user you ought to have a read of WP:V prior to vandalism accusations. -- Cat chi? 10:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

GA nomination
I nominated this article as a GA candidate. Baristarim 04:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Wonderful job in just a week's time! All contributors please accept my congratulations, regardless this becomes GA or not. Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll agree with this sentiment - certainly held my interest for the duration. Orderinchaos 02:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've failed the article. This diff indicates that the article is not stable.  ShadowHalo 06:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The instability is because of the developing events. No one anticipated a second rally. Now there are talks of even a third rally... I just updated the page today with last nights current events. Too early for a GA nom, I would agree. -- Cat chi? 04:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Statement from article

 * The Speaker of The Turkish Parliament, Bülent Arınç recently triggered another controversy with his words "They [The protestors and the secularist elite they embody] should prepare themselves for the New Turkey". Secularists such as the Hürriyet columnist Emin Çölaşan claim that Bulent Arinc's words were an open expression of the Islamist AKP's and its leaders' intentions regarding the secularist and Kemalist régime.
 * The spokesman for The Speaker in a statement stated that Arınç's "well-intentioned words were manipulated" and that the criticism is "politically motivated". Both Arınç and his spokesman claimed that what was implied by the "New Turkey" was "Turkey's quest of accession to the EU, the democratic reforms this quest will bring and the era of stability which has been and will be marked by Turkey's "excellent" economic performance" but still, many secularist are not convinced about Arınç's intentions and see his words as a confirmation of the long-held beliefs that the AKP and their moderate Islamism has a hidden agenda of reshaping the Kemalist and secularist regime into an Islamic one.

I removed the two paragraphs above for lacking sources, I cannot find any sources for it. -- Cat chi? 15:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Gül was prominently a controversial candidate for several reasons. His background including the two proscribed islamist political parties, and a recently re-revealed interview of him in the Guardian newspaper in 1995 where he stated "We want to change the secular system" was seen as the major concerns of the protesters. Morever her wife, who previously filed a complaint against Turkey in the European Court of Human Rights, is wearing a head scarf; which many had seen as a threat to the secular Republic Regime of Turkey, and thus expressed this inconvinience in the second rally.

I removed the paragraphs above for lacking sources, I cannot find any sources for it. -- Cat chi? 18:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I knew that was coming. I'll find the sources in Turkish but I really don't know where to fit this in article. maybe I should put that in the presidential election page. Kerem Özcan 11:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I appearantly found a source while not looking for it. The issue about his wife still needs a source - which shouldn't be too hard to find. Feel free to expand this in the article. -- Cat chi? 13:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well actually just yesterday I found sources for both his statements in the Guardian and her wife, but thought that it'd be better to add it at the end of the background part. So well-sourced, it stays there :) Regards, Kerem Özcan 14:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Now I noticed that the information is repeated twice. One in the Background part, and the other in the aftermath of the first rally. Where do you think it should stay? Kerem Özcan 18:30, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes you are right. It should be presented only once but I am uncertain what is the best place for it. It feels like the aftermath of the first rally would be better as it talks about Gul while the background section does not. -- Cat chi? 02:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed "Due to the demand of the people" from "Due to the demand of the people, a second rally was organized to start at 13:00 local time on 29 April 2007" since it didn't make sense to me.81.235.186.15 23:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Error in the article
There is an error in this current events article. The demonstration on Apr. 29 was in Ankara (the capitol) and not Istanbul. CNN initially made this mistake, which seems to be occurring all over the place at this point, however, the square in question, Çağlayan, is in Ankara. It is "the equivalent" of Taksim, for those of you familiar with both locales. Kingerik 03:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You should be kidding. The protest on April 29 was definitely on Istanbul. Tandoğan, where the first rally took place, is in Ankara. However Çağlayan, where the second rally took place, is in Istanbul. I can provide you satellite pictures if you like. :)--Ugur Olgun 07:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I just had to come in here to "LOL" at this. Caglayan is in Istanbul, not Ankara. Basar Kizildere 08:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * ...and 1 LOL here too! When did we move Caglayan to Ankara folks? Could it be you mean "Kizilay" ? Bckmz 14:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. I heard the news via recap from someone reading a Turkish newspaper, whereas I speak only English (blatently obvious everyone?).  Regardless, I discovered my error far to late to cover my tracks.  I understand, however, that there were protests in both locations on the 29th.  In my (lame) defense, I tried to do a little research before posting, but the only immediate information I could find on Çağlayan was either in Turkish, or regarding an economics professor in England, neither of which did me any good.  Looking now, however, I ought to have trusted the Turkish Daily News report found a few entries below.  I bow my head in shame. Kingerik 03:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Esteemed vs Mister
I think "Sayın" should be translated to english as "Mr." or "sir", regarding the context Erdoğan said it. Though it literally means "esteemed", the meaning and the usage shifted towards to the "Mr." in the years. This literal meaning can be mentioned in brackets, but using it solely like that causes misleading. One, who would have no idea about Erdoğan and/or the situation might consider that he's Pro-Kurdish, or of a Kurdish descent. Regards, Kerem Özcan 14:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there is a confusion among translators on this. In the English language referring to someone as "Mr." is nothing remarkable. It translates to Turkish better as "Bay". Esteemed is a sign of respect and better translates to Turkish as "Sayın". "Sir" does not translate back to Sayın. -- Cat chi? 14:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not saying anything against it. But I rather claim that "in the context he said it", Mr. would be more appropriate. Erdoğan even calls Baykal, the main opposition leader, "sayın"; though I'm pretty sure that he doesn't regard him as "esteemed". :) And I think I should say that, neither I like Erdoğan, nor I think that he likes Öcalan. But still, I think that interpreting it as esteemed is just not good faith (And correct me if I'm wrong but he said it years ago and it didn't really attract the attention of anybody at that time.) So I'd say that the usage of "Sayın" today is much closer to "Mr." than "esteemed". Regards, Kerem Özcan 14:34, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * In the context of Turkish -> English translation esteemed would be better. Second guessing his motives on the usage of the word "sayin" would fall under WP:OR. Who knows, he might have even used the word sayin in a sarcastic manner. Weather he actually holds Ocalan or Baykal in high regard or not would require citation and would also be beyond the scope of this article. -- Cat chi? 14:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, what can I say. You play the game with the rules :) You are right about the WP:OR and hence I withdraw my suggestion. Still I want to quote Can Yücel here; "If that S.O.B. had written it in Turkish, he'd write it like this" (Answering the critizations directed to him about his Hamlet translation) ;) (No bad feelings by the way) :) Kerem Özcan 15:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

attribution
Someone removed the image credit from the cc-by-sa-2.0 image I've added. I notice that compliance with this standard is patchy on Wikipedia but I am correct to say that this is necessary, or isn't it?--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 07:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It isn't necessary. The credit is available at arms length on the images description page. -- Cat chi? 13:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Not sure if this is the proper place to post this...Some IP logged on and completely deleted this article, replaced with some vandalism. I revereted back to the history, but I think some minor typos were created in doing so. May need some clean up. Ghettodude 18:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Mass Terrorist Protests
im removing terrorist, its clearly vandalisation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.146.26.176 (talk • contribs)

Aftermath of the second rally
The big quote in Turkish in the middle of the section needs to be translated... --85.211.167.167 12:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)