Talk:Republic of the Congo/Archive 1

Nomenclature
We cannot rename a country for our convenience. The country is Congo, not North Congo Danny

I want to put this into the 'look and feel' of the other countries (see []) - any objections? I will start here. 2toise 03:15, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC) mikes gay

Sure just add the prime minister: Isidore Mvouba.

Proposed WikiProject
In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Middle Africa at WikiProject Council/Proposals whose scope would include the Republic of the Congo. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Minerals
Shouldn't the mineral resources of the country be mentionned? Like that congo has 80% if the worlds known Coltan. (used in electronics) And also has Niobium. [] (I think mineral resources should be on the to-check list in articles about countries..) Dimonds are also a Congolies exsport, see --Lilidor 11:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Oil and gas
I added a link to- []. --Lilidor 11:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yet another misrepresentation of Marxism/Socialism
I'm not an expert of the course of socialism in Africa but current en:WP contains no basis for the statement that the region/state was Marxist between independence and 1992. I'm virtually certain that instead the same sort of nationalistic/communal bourgeoisie that rules/ruled generally in Africa albeit with pretensions of being Marxists (which is what the article currently actually says ("dominated by Marxist rhetoric")) led the Congo in the post colonial period. The OTD entry and article lede is a glaring misrepresentation of the facts stated in the body of the article. Lycurgus 04:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

History
The history section makes virtually no mention of what happened between the late 15th century and independence in 1960. Can someone with knowledge on the subject fill this in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.195.132.121 (talk) 04:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I think there is a significant problem with this page. Wasn't the Republic of the Congo formerly a colony of Belgium, not France? If so, then this page is all sorts of messed up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.233.210.211 (talk) 22:28, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Congolese woman picture
The lady on the picture is hideous. Is this the best picture you could find ? Please replace the picture with a beautiful lady. You can do better than that. Do not make people think that Congolese ladies are ugly because that is not true.Shady19 (talk) 02:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

^^^LOL^^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.169.172.228 (talk) 21:16, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Regions and districts
Currently the article claims 10 regions, 1 commune and forty-six districts. A congolese website says "11 départements, 76 sous- préfectures et 7 communes urbaines". The Second Administrative Level Boundaries Dataset (SALB; maintained by United Nations) lists 11 regions and 93 districts. Statoids (here and ) basically simply says that various sources do not match with each other. Any bright ideas? – Sadalmelik ☎ 18:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Half of the population below international poverty line
Once again,people who know nothing about the Congo write ridiculous information on it. Since when half of the population lives on less than $ 1. 25 a day ? Have you ever been there ? Maybe you're confusing this Congo with the Democratic Republic of Congo. Or even worse, you're confusing it with Haiti. There is no way in the world that people in the Congo are that poor. I was there this past summer and I have to say that for small country as it is, the standard of living is quite high.

So whoever wrote this is seriously mistaken. I urge you to remove this false information or I will do it myself. Shady19 (talk) 05:31, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The income information is sourced to the 2008 UN Human Development Indices; it is given on page 35 there, and indeed the Democratic Republic of Congo is a lot poorer than the Republic of Congo. Unless you have a source that disputes this figure, I don't see why we should take it out. AxelBoldt (talk) 07:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

That is data from 2000-2006. We are now in 2009, going into 2010. Until you get updated information, remove it. You probably do not care because you are not from there. Flawed information like this can be very offensive to people directly affiliated with the Congo. Like I said, I have been there plenty of times and if half of the people lived with less than $ 1.25 a day, they would all die of hunger. Life over there is expensive and the information you put there does not represent the reality. So take it off. I have looked at articles of poorer African countries and not even there, something like that was mentioned. Please be understandable and take it off.Shady19 (talk) 18:20, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you have sources other than your own observations? Sarcelles (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The point I am trying to make is that there is no need to mention that half of the population lives below the international poverty line in the opening paragraphs. I have not seen a similar line in any other article, so why put it in the Congo article ? Not only that it is wrong, but it is also very offensive. I do not need sources because I have been visiting that country my entire life and I know for a fact that people there are not that poor. $ 1.25 is roughly equivalent to 450 francs, which in the Congo will only get you a sandwich. Are you trying to tell me that over 2 million people in the Congo can't even afford a sandwich ? This is absolutely ridiculous. So please, let's show some respect here.Shady19 (talk) 22:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Coat of arms changed
The coat of arms of the Congo has been replaced with one with a woman holding a plate saying "UNITE TRAVAIL PROGRES", and this might have been long time ago. Unsonique (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

"braza" redirect inappropriate
Please don't autoredirect - see my talk comment on the non-redirected page of "braza" for why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.226.174 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 28 June 2007‎ (UTC)
 * Sorry, who wrote the above, and when? (if you type four tildes, that produces your user name with a timestamp). I guess I'll look for it in the revision history. El_C 8:14 am, 31 August 2007 (UTC+1)
 * Got it. 85.227.226.174, on June 28, was asking that the braza page not be redirected to this entry and instead be turned into a disambiguation page to account for a band of the same name. My answer to that is: is the band notable enough? (if it is, it might be better to refer to it as "braza (band)"). El_C 8:17 am, 31 August 2007 (UTC+1)

Wrong ISO 3166 Country code
No idea how to fix this, so I'll note it here -- the country code for the Republic of Congo should be CG, it is instead listed as CD (which is the Democratic Republic of Congo (see http://www.iso.org/iso/english_country_names_and_code_elements#c..). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nanofix (talk • contribs) 22:13, 31 March 2011 (UTC)‎

Removed inappropriate reference to "male endowment" in first paragraph
This is what I... snipped:


 * The country ranks first in male endowment according to an October 2012 study.
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.156.231.136 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)‎

Expand
I think all articles about sovereign states should have to provide a certain amount of in-depth coverage about key topics. Charles Essie (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested Move: → Congo-Brazzaville

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Republic of the Congo → Congo-Brazzaville – Quick! Which Congo is the Republic of the Congo, and which one is the Democratic Republic of the Congo? The current setup defeats the purpose of names, which is to help humans distinguish among otherwise similar items. The World Factbook gives "Congo (Brazzaville)" as the "conventional short form" name of this country. "The former French colony is often known as Congo-Brazzaville to distinguish it from its neighbor, the Democratic Republic of Congo (former Zaire)", according to Readings in African Politics (2003). On Highbeam, "Republic of the Congo" Brazzaville gets 317 matches, Congo-Brazzaville 1,596. Kauffner (talk) 11:20, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Oppose use Congo (of Brazzaville) and Congo (Zaire) instead. (Congo/ROC/DROC/PROC mess) -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 13:49, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Confusing or not, as far as I can see the two names we currently use are the two most common names for these countries. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:25, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For both countries, the most common name is simply "Congo". Kauffner (talk) 12:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the BBC, for one, would disagree with you. 5,299 results for "Republic of Congo" against 6,835 for "Congo" alone would suggest that the vast majority of references to Congo have "Republic of" or "Democratic Republic of" in front of them. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For the last year, I get 5,370 results for, 42 for . More relevantly for this discussion, there were 202 hits for in the last year. Kauffner (talk) 20:52, 16 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. These articles are currently at the correct titles, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Republic of the Congo. BBC country profile for Republic of Congo -  ...the Republic of Congo, which is sometimes referred to as Congo-Brazzaville. doesn't support common usage of Congo-Brazzaville. Zarcadia (talk) 11:27, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The country is "sometimes Congo-Brazzaville" in the sense that it is usually referred to as "Congo," not in the sense that it is more commonly given as "Republic of Congo." Many counties have constitutional names in the form "Republic of Foo," but this is the never the common name. The BBC site has hundreds of stories that use "Congo-Brazzaville", for example "Congo-Brazzaville polio outbreak kills more than 100" and "Congo Brazzaville/South Africa land deal". Kauffner (talk) 12:25, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - To the Q. "Quick! Which Congo is the Republic of the Congo, and which one is the Democratic Republic of the Congo?" the answer is "Republic of the Congo is Republic of the Congo and Democratic Republic of the Congo is Democratic Republic of the Congo." What am I missing? In ictu oculi (talk) 06:47, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose People are choosing to leave it as it is. This has been debated bfore to the same conclussion. I agree with In ictu oculi. Francis Hannaway (talk) 20:45, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Kauffner, do you also support moving Democratic Republic of the Congo to Congo-Kinshasa? --BDD (talk) 17:32, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * DR Congo is primary, so it should be just "Congo". Kauffner (talk) 21:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That would be bad, we should follow the Georgia example instead. Making one country primary over the other is very problematic. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Interesting proposal. The last go around (1960-1971), "Congo-Brazzaville" seemed quite popular.  However, in this one (1997-pres) it appears to be used relatively less (WARNING! O.R. alert!) although it seems still the most common term used by (Right Bank) Congolese themselves when dealing in English.  —  AjaxSmack   03:04, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * At the Olympics, none of DR Congo's athletes advanced, so this country was just "Congo." See also "Congo's capital picks up pieces after arms depot blasts". So if you are talking about this country only, the name is simply "Congo" and you don't need "Republic of", "Brazzaville", or any other disambiguator. Among disambiguators, the BBC certainly seems to prefer "Congo-Brazzaville": 1,140 results for, 161 for , 698 for . Kauffner (talk) 02:44, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE I cannot believe we are going around this merry-go-round of the same arguments every few months. This is an encyclopedia - we are not the ones who choose countries' names - we report facts. Both the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo have gone through a lot of turmoil in recent decades and this has included name changes. This was especially true during the transition from colonial authority to independence for both countries in turn. I have just returned from two visits to the Democratic Republic of Congo where I was able to watch TV from both countries. Both countries went to great lengths to always - and I mean always - state the name of the country in full ... The Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo. Congo-Brazaville and Congo-Kinshasa are archaic terms but were in use in the colonial times; they are undersood by people who remember those times and were even used a little after the fall of Mobutu because the situation wasn't firmly established. Now the situation is firmly established on both sides of the river and full names are used. If you stop someone in the street and ask them where they are from they will tell you the same. The BBC consistently uses Republic of Congo and DR Congo, abreviating just the first part. Congolese people may also abreviate the Democratic Republic of Congo to DRC (RDC in French).
 * From the point of view of someone who is looking for information in this encyclopedia, changing the name of these countries would be foolish because 1) it would be even more confusing than it has been, and 2) most people don't know what or where they are anyway - so why make it even more difficult for them when national names are the currently used popular names?
 * It is true that some news networks refer to the Republic of Congo as just Congo, but this is then clarified within the article. It's not helpful to look at headlines only - lots of thing are abreviated ... that's the nature of headline writing.
 * So I am totally, totally against changing the name of the article. Francis Hannaway (talk) 10:42, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * So you are playing the colonialism card? In colonial times, this country was called "French Congo" (or "Brazzaville" under the Free French). As for Kinshasa, it was called Leopoldville back then. You really think people in Brazzaville say that they live the "Republic of Congo"? Everyone called this country "Congo" until 1997, and Congolese do not need to remind themselves which Congo they live in. Check out this profile of the country in Les Dépêches de Brazzaville. It uses plain old "Congo" throughout -- no "Republic of". This is typical of the paper's coverage in both French and English. Here is a press release where the country's embassy calls itself "Embassy of Congo-Brazzaville." Kauffner (talk) 13:38, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If I were using the colonialism card I would favour your proposed name change, which I don't. Do I think that people in Republic of Congo would state that if ask - I don't think it ... I know it. And finally, as I've stated in recent years arguing on this very same subject and working very hard to keep naming consistent on all pages that mention these two countries, Congo-Brazaville and Congo-Kinshasa don't work either because they show a tremendous bias towards the people who live in the capital cities. This subject has been exhausted several times in the past and - for countries with less well known identities internationall - the official names are used by the population in general and should be used on Wikipedia. Francis Hannaway (talk) 17:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ... and as for adding Congo(Zaire) to the mix, you would get lynched if you tried that in Kinshasa. The problem with quoting references from as long ago as 2003 is that things have moved on quite a bit in both countries. You've got to be current with naming countries ... not some nostalgic reference from your school-days. Keep the names as they are - we had to struggle to establish them in the first place. Francis Hannaway (talk) 16:01, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you visited only DR Congo, perhaps you are projecting the preferences of people there on to this country. I gave media and diplomatic links to support the claim that this country's first choice is to be called "Congo". This is the name the country competes under the Olympics. They also seem to OK with "Congo-Brazzaville" as a disambiguated form. There are almost 600 deghosted examples on the government's French-language site: . Kauffner (talk) 23:34, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you read my first statement, I received TV and radio from both countries. But let's look at it from the perspective of the English speaking readership. You will not get any support from a readership which doesn't really know much about countries in Afric and turns to Wikipedia to get information. Editors tend to be specialists and can often (but not always) have detailed knowledge about particular subjects. For most readers, Africa is one place - and if not one place, then only divided into a few regions. There's the deserty bit at the top, for example; a lot of people know about Egypt and - in view of recent events - Libya. People often know about South Africa and Kenya because of holiday destinations. They are less likely to associate the popular resorts of Tenerife with Africa. Most of the rest is a blurr. Some soccer players come from African countries ... and that can help raise people's awareness. So, when - as I've already stated - a country comes through so many name changes (colonial, independent, new-regime, etc) the information provided in an encyclopedia must avoid being confusing. Now, I understand that you are trying to avoid confusion and are not just trying to be awkward, but Congo-Brazzaville/Congo-Kinshasa is just as confusing to the outsider as anything else. French Congo and Belgian Congo are probably the clearest terms to the outsider but obviously disallowed. For people to get to know these two countries the easiest way is to stick with the official names - and it is the inclusion of the word Democratic (and we all know that neither country is democratic) which people will latch onto to make a distinction. If there are several names, all being used in every article, confusion will become even greater. For example, calling the country Congo-Brazzaville in one paragraph and then switching to Congo or the Republic of Congo in another ... and then if the neighbouring country is mentioned in the same article, to have Congo-Kinshasa and Democratic Republic of Congo used as well. The number of names needs to be reduced - yet the official names must always be known. It stands to reason, therefore, that these official names are the ones which should be popularised. As I've said before - in Kinshasa, on TV and radio, they use the full names of both countries 100% of the time - including doing interviews in the street with ordinary people. You have no support from anyone - mainly because this is a very old and overstated situation. If we want people to distinguish the two countries, we must leave the names as they are. Francis Hannaway (talk) 10:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Demographics update
The topic titled "Demographics" needs to be updated to 2013 or later. The information is dated up to 2000; must be changed as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SarahTHunter (talk • contribs) 19:55, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:40, 1 May 2016 (UTC)