Talk:Reuben D. Mussey Jr.

General, not Colonel
I disapprove of the recent edits by Donner60 (talk |contribs). According to the University College of Law, Ellen Spencer Mussey's husband, Reuben D. Mussey, Jr., "led African American troops as a general in the Union army during the Civil War", not limited to the rank of Colonel. Bullmoosebell (talk) 05:38, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The edits are based on Eicher, John H., and David J. Eicher, Civil War High Commands. Stanford: Stanford University Press, 2001. ISBN 0-8047-3641-3.
 * The URL for this book on google books is http://books.google.com/books?id=Fs0Ajlnjl6AC. The description of the book is as follow: "Based on nearly five decades of research, this magisterial work is a biographical register and analysis of the people who most directly influenced the course of the Civil War, its high commanders. Numbering 3,396, they include the presidents and their cabinet members, state governors, general officers of the Union and Confederate armies (regular, provisional, volunteers, and militia), and admirals and commodores of the two navies. Civil War High Commands will become a cornerstone reference work on these personalities and the meaning of their commands, and on the Civil War itself." :"Errors of fact and interpretation concerning the high commanders are legion in the Civil War literature, in reference works as well as in narrative accounts. The present work brings together for the first time in one volume the most reliable facts available, drawn from more than 1,000 sources and including the most recent research. The biographical entries include complete names, birthplaces, important relatives, education, vocations, publications, military grades, wartime assignments, wounds, captures, exchanges, paroles, honors, and place of death and interment." :"In addition to its main component, the biographies, the volume also includes a number of essays, tables, and synopses designed to clarify previously obscure matters such as the definition of grades and ranks; the difference between commissions in regular, provisional, volunteer, and militia services; the chronology of military laws and executive decisions before, during, and after the war; and the geographical breakdown of command structures. The book is illustrated with 84 new diagrams of all the insignias used throughout the war and with 129 portraits of the most important high commanders." Several editors of Civil War pages in Wikipedia use this as a standard and most reliable reference. The description supports this. It is more reliable than a web page, even from a university, referring to the relative of the subject of the article. There is no doubt that Mussey is described as a general in some sources but this is only because he was nominated, but not confirmed, as a brevet general. He certainly did not lead troops as a general. If his appointment had been confirmed, he would have received the brevet grade as an award as many other officer did, to rank from March 13, 1865, a previous date to which many brevet appointments were backdated. I might speculate that Mussey's nomination ran into trouble because he served as Andrew Johnson's private secretary from April to November, 1865 but in the absence of a definite source to this effect, it can not be placed in the article. The Eichers show Mussey in their "might have beens" section. These include "officers who were appointed and/or nominated as generals, and may even have served as such, but who were not confirmed in general officer grade, and hence were not duly commissioned." Eicher, 2001, p. 587. On page 606 in the entry for Reuben Delevan Mussey, they shown "Bvt. Brig. Gen., 13 March 1865 (not confirmed)." The last substantive grade entry for Mussey on this page is "Col. 100 U.S.C. Inf. 14 June 1864." Donner60 (talk) 06:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Your edits are sound, and I appreciate your professionalism with this discussion. I hope all editors can emulate this medium and keep Wikipedia a credible resource through professional courtesy and dignity. Bullmoosebell (talk) 09:02, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Bullmoosebell and others: I think it is clear from the Eicher book cited in the article and from the absence of Mussey's name from Warner, Ezra J. Generals in Blue: Lives of the Union Commanders. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 1964. ISBN 0-8071-0822-7 and other sources that Mussey led the troops as a colonel, not a general. What is not clear is whether the Eichers are correct that Mussey's later appointment as a brevet brigadier general was not confirmed. Hunt and Brown do not appear to support the statement and in fact list Mussey as a brevet brigadier general. I have added a footnote concerning this conflict in sources as the only accurate way to try to reconcile these conflicting points as accurately as our information seems to allow. While I must say that I was opposed to accepting the web site citation in preference to the Eicher compilation, a closer reading of Hunt and Brown and the fact that Mussey is referred to as a brevet brigadier general in at least a few other early sources lead me to believe that the even if Eicher is considered the definitive modern source, there is reason to suggest that the Eicher book may not be definitive in this case and if Hunt and Brown is their only source, that book does not seem to provide a good basis. Perhaps the only thing we can say with certainty at this point is that there is a conflict in the sources as to Mussey's confirmation as a brevet brigadier general. This is a somewhat complicated and puzzling point. I am sorry that I did not look at it more thoroughly even though acceptance of the information in Eicher usually carries with it a very low risk of error or dispute. In the absence of some further definitive information, I hope the footnote here and a similar one in the Ellen Spencer Mussey article will suffice as giving the most accurate information available. Donner60 (talk) 10:43, 24 December 2011 (UTC)