Talk:Revenue Tariff Party (Tasmania)

Claims that it operated only in Tasmania/at the 1903 election
I have amended this because The West Australian for 30 March 1901 has a list of candidates (towards the end of the first column) and results: there were "R.T." candidates in Fremantle, Kalgoorlie and Coolgardie and the party had no less than 13(!) candidates for the Senate. Cheers, Grant  |  Talk  07:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Then we have conflicting sources. Most of those candidates are listed by Hughes and Graham as Free Traders, and the elected ones definitely sat as Free Traders in parliament. From the article, which has things like "Moderate Protectionist", it seems to be more of a policy description than a party designation. I tend to think it very unlikely that this grouping had anything to do with the one this article is about. Frickeg (talk) 07:43, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The West has always got things wrong, but I doubt it would get the affiliations of local political candidates wrong! If you search the National Library newspaper archive, there are several mentions of the RTP e.g.


 * Mr. Kirwan said that when in the Federal Parliament he was a member of Sir George Reid's Revenue Tariff Party. They opposed high duties and predicted the terrible handicap they would place on the development of Western Australia, and especially upon mining and agriculture. (The West Australian, 28 April 1926, p11)


 * Since Reid and Kirwan were prominent Free Traders, I assume that in the early 1900s, the RTP was synonymous with the FTP in WA.


 * The only other possible explanation is that the name "Revenue Tariff Party" (which had parallels in the UK and USA) was used by separate parties in different states. The "parties" at the time were (unlike those now) state-based, loose and in a state of flux. Grant |  Talk  08:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that explanation is probably likely. However, we do know that the Tasmanian party was a separate entity in 1903, although its two members were Free Traders again by 1906. It seems clear that the West is talking about a different RTP to this one; in fact, theirs is almost certainly a synonym of the WA Free Traders. The whole thing could use a lot more research, but for the moment how about something along these lines?
 * The original text, followed by:
 * ''The Western Australian Free Trade Party used the name inconsistently in the 1901 federal election.
 * Frickeg (talk) 08:47, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I think I would prefer a dab link at the top, e.g. "For the Revenue Tariff Party in Western Australia, see Free Trade Party."? Grant |  Talk  09:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a good option too! Frickeg (talk) 09:16, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm increasingly uneasy about Hughes & Graham's assertion that the RTP existed only in Tasmania.

I say this because "Revenue Tariff Party" seems to have been a fairly widespread synonym for the FTP, e.g.


 * Frank Crowley, in Big John Forrest (UWA Press, Crawley WA, 2000) pp308-9, refers to the three blocs from WA in the 1901 elections, as "labour", "protectionists" and "revenue tariffists".


 * The Advertiser 11 February 1903 p8.


 * Senator Sir Josiah Symon ... desired also to take the first opportunity of testifying to the deep sense of the loss which the Commonwealth has sustained in the death of Sir Frederick Sargood. In spite of what was happening from day to day, Sir Frederick was an entirely honest merchant. (Laughter.) He was a valued member of the Senate and of the revenue tariff party, and he would live in the goodwill and affections of his countrymen. They would all welcome Mr. Reid from that great State in the west, where he went, saw, and conquered.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=AG19011011.2.12&
 * refs in New Zealand papers to Sir George's Reid's party as being the RTP, e.g.

It occurs to me that perhaps in 1901 the Tasmanian RTP was separate to the Tasmanian FTP, was unsuccessful in the election and did not merge with the federal FTP.

So I think perhaps this page should become a dabpage, with links to
 * Free Trade Party (no change)
 * Revenue Tariff Party (Tasmania) (the content from this article)

Grant |  Talk  03:47, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have no objections with that option. As I said, there's a lot of work still to be done on this and early parties are notoriously difficult to pin down. Hughes and Graham, I suspect, have simply given all the branches of the FTP the same designation (FT). However, this confirms that the separate RTP was only active in 1903, and only in Tasmania (since Hughes & Graham make a point of differentiating the Tasmanian Free Traders and Revenue Tariffists in the 1903 election, but not in 1901). Ultimately it too merged with the FTP before the 1906 election. Frickeg (talk) 05:08, 13 September 2010 (UTC)