Talk:Revival (Eminem album)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2017
Techkid6 (talk) 21:17, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 21:30, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Hey, not totally sure what happened to the actual body of the edit request, I've never dealt with write protected pages before, so, sorry about that. I essentially was trying to fix the [citation needed] at the end of the Singles subheading, including the YouTube link to the song's release as well as the official announcement of it on Twitter.

I also included the text on the homepage as an actual first party source of the album name, as there isn't any source in the list that officially confirmed the title. I wasn't sure how to fit that into the *change X to Y* format, though. Thanks!

Techkid6 (talk) 23:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello, just say "add X before/after Y" or "fix X citation at Y location" and feel free to reopen the edit request when you do so. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:39, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Hip-Hop
I think it's safe to say this album is going to be some type of hip-hop, right? Souljia 1991 (talk) 02:34, 14 November 2017 (UTC)


 * We can't be exactly sure. That's why genres are not added to the info box until the album is released and has sources to support it. But we can't add hip hop just because we think it's safe to say it will be that genre. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball! Bowling is life (talk) 00:47, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Crystal ball
Technically, there's currently no definitive official proof that the album will be called Revival. We should rename this to "Untitled Eminem album" because "Revival" is a prediction at this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.192.103 (talk) 12:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * We can be reasonably assured that the album is titled Revival. If nothing else multiple reliable sources refer to the album as "Revival". --Deathawk (talk) 08:42, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Move to draft
Move this to draft until the album comes out. This article is full of speculation and hardly anything is confirmed. Not good enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.106.20.207 (talk) 15:59, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 28 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW doesn't seem any point keeping this open (non-admin closure) the RM was only edit by IP In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Revival (Eminem album) → Draft:Eminem's ninth studio album – Nothing in this article is confirmed, not even the name. Move to draft until it comes out. 31.106.160.181 (talk) 16:01, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Dr. Dre posted a video on Twitter today, announcing the album's release date. Therefore, the album and information in the page is correct along with the sources. Maintaining (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Exactly. The name was confirmed so that discussion is pointless right now. Tashi   Talk to me  22:07, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose – the album's name and release date has been confirmed. Even without these, the album itself was still notable enough to warrant its own article. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=PhilipTerryGraham&project=en.wikipedia.org count]) 22:30, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose: Per WP:Fringe There seems to be a small subset of Eminem fans who believe that the album was either, delayed or scrapped, based upon it missing an unconfirmed release date. This does not gel with reliable sources. Furthermore the album has a release date now. proving that those are false. --Deathawk (talk) 23:11, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Strong oppose and snow close: Release date and name are now confirmed. Sock   ( tock talk)  01:41, 29 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Untouchable"
Is Untouchable an actual single or a promotional single? All of the sources I have found don't say. Bowling is life (talk) 22:17, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Collaboration with 2chainz
Why is that song not on the album Lance Brown (talk) 05:59, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
 * He was going to feature on "Chloraseptic" with PHresher, but his verse was cut. All here, Theo (edits) 07:29, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2017
'Untouchable' should be added as a single. It was the second single that was released for the album, Walk On Water being the first one. MauriceMV (talk) 16:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌. Needs a source. See WP:RS.  City O f  Silver  17:10, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * They mention that its a single in an article on the site, located here: http://www.eminem.com/news/new-single-and-revival-pre-order
 * Still not going to work. Again, please read WP:RS and also have a look at WP:PRIMARY. We need verification from a third-party media outlet, like MTV News or something like that. 17:47, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is one for Untouchable: http://www.nme.com/news/music/listen-untouchable-new-single-eminem-2169647 and here is one for River: http://www.nme.com/news/music/ed-sheeran-eminem-wham-race-christmas-number-one-2175557 Only seems fair to add them back now.
 * That one for "River" isn't for "River". It's for Ed Sheeran's "Perfect".  Anarchyte ( work  &#124;  talk )  08:16, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here are a few for River: 1, 2. And I also shared a link for Untouchable. If needed I can provide more links for both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MauriceMV (talk • contribs)


 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Upsidedown Keyboard (talk) 15:01, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

"River" as a single
How can "River" be a single when it was released with the rest of the album? We've got one source saying there was an "indication" it could be a single but there's no confirmation. Should we remove this claim from the article?  Anarchyte ( work  &#124;  talk )  02:37, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You're right that the source deliberately doesn't state this for a fact. Since it says this can't be verified until next year, I don't see a major issue with removing it as opposed to keeping unconfirmed speculation around for 2+ weeks.  City O f  Silver  17:51, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Someone else has already removed it.  Anarchyte ( work  &#124;  talk )  08:15, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2017
MAHDIBZS1380 (talk) 19:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC) they said Eminem worked by duo group Grey but he works with Skylar Grey
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. shiv am (t) 18:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Word removal
The sentence:

'Revival debuted at number one in the UK, becoming the Christmas number-one album for 2017 there.[6]'

Should have the final 'there' removed since this is poor English and is not required. Boxrick (talk) 20:51, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

"Chloraseptic (Remix)" as single
Discogs calls "Chloraseptic (Remix)" a single, not a promotional single. Where is it called a promo single if anyone knows? If it's the third single, an article should be created. Theo (contribs) 11:49, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Framed single article
Framed is fourth single so someone needs to make page for it!!! Rainerpasca (talk) 22:18, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Gold Status
This album is gold now. Does that mean it sold 500,000 copies at least? Should we update commercial performance and the Eminem Discography? Vaxine19 (talk) 20:37, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

'the' American rapper
Sorry, I accidentally hit return before typing an edit summary on my revert!

Regarding so-called 'false titles', I no of no widespread consensus against them. I only see sources related to whether they're appropriate or not in journalism. But we're an encyclopedia. As the use or exclusion of the qualifier the implies a lot, e.g. when defining a subject in the first sentence, I see it as important to make the wording as literally correct as possible. Saying "the American rapper Eminem" implies that he is the only one. Even though there's no comma before "Eminem" implying his singularity, there are different English conventions used on WP which use different comma rules. The sentence is worsened by the word the, while omitting it correctly implies that there are other American rappers.

It 'false titles' are objectively inferior in encyclopedic writing, it needs to be established clearer, that's why I fight such mass-changes. This reminds me of the Comprised of debate, which again is conditional upon phrasing. As our grammatical overlords have yet to establish rules on either matter, I think editing time could be spent better, though I'm all for (the) good-faith efforts. UpdateNerd (talk) 06:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)


 * To me, it's completely ordinary English -- see WP:FALSETITLE to see why that is. I think a lot of people would say, "Do you know the American rapper Eminem?," not, "Do you know American rapper Eminem?" This creates an overly abbreviated, journalistic tone (as the essay states, false titles originated in newspaper headlines, where space is limited -- as opposed to Wikipedia, where we can write full sentences). I'm going to remove the false title again, I feel that the essay (as well as my comments here) have explained this situation well enough. JeffSpaceman (talk) 15:07, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Not relevant that certain conventions originated with journalism; the counter-argument is also dependent on a journalistic convention. All of the "ordinary English sentences" implying the correctness of including "the" are informal, and do not fit an encyclopedic tone or address the introductory sentence. Being able to link an essay doesn't make it a guideline or policy, and both WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO say that you should let discussion take place before restoring a challenged edit. UpdateNerd (talk) 16:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are correct. I have self-reverted, and will let discussion play out to see where it goes. JeffSpaceman (talk) 20:17, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in, but... I am baffled by two of the statements on false titles here:
 * Saying "the American rapper Eminem" implies that he is the only one.
 * No it doesn't. "the American rapper, Eminem," with comma, would imply that he is the only one. With no comma, there's no such implication.


 * Here's an example from the AP style guide: "They ate dinner with their daughter Julie and her husband, David. (Julie has only one husband. If the phrase read and her husband David, it would suggest that she had more than one husband.)"


 * All of the "ordinary English sentences" implying the correctness of including "the" are informal, and do not fit an encyclopedic tone or address the introductory sentence.
 * No, they're not informal sentences. Popcornfud (talk) 22:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of the comma rule, but as I mentioned a comma is easily overlooked and they can be placed very differently in other forms of English (non-U.S.). The example sentences have indeed been conversational, not encyclopedic, which is why I described them as such. UpdateNerd (talk) 07:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Tell me more about why you find the example sentences are "conversational". I'm not understanding this yet.
 * For example, the first example sentence is "The dog, Rex, was a golden retriever." I find it perfectly plausible to imagine this sentence in a Wikipedia article. Smith was approached by two cats and a dog. The dog, Rex, was a golden retriever. Smith said he could not remember any distinguishing details about the cats. Etc. Seems perfectly encylopedic to me in terms of tone. Popcornfud (talk) 12:28, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, that one isn't conversational per se, but is irrelevant. When you have a preceding sentence introducing a singular subject, of course then it's appropriate to call back to using 'the'. E.g.: There was an American rapper who made an album. The rapper, Eminem, decided to call it Revival. Completely unlike any introductory statement on this encyclopedia. IMO the example seems rather misleading; much better ones need to be produced and gain consensus before further implementation. Cheers, UpdateNerd (talk) 05:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)