Talk:Revolt of the Barretinas

Villamayor
There's a dead link in the article to "Villamayor (Huesca)." I can't find any municipality by that name in the province of Huesca. That also doesn't make sense, because the Revolt took place mostly in the Principality. Is it supposed to be "Vilamajor" in Vallès (Sant Pere de Vilamajor)? acomas (talk) 15:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll try and check, but I suspect the name is from the source? In general I tried to honor whatever spelling the source used.  Of course, contemporary spellings are a headache, as I believe Castilian Spanish was used for most of the official records / histories (or French, of course, for histories from the other side), but the common people use Catalan names except in an era before spelling was even close to standardized, so ugh.  (I know at least one of the histories I read while researching this outright said "Yeah these are all Castilian names, it's what the original sources I checked used, sticking with that for consistency's sake.") SnowFire (talk) 20:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

There isn't an English word for Barretina, plural Barretines (move)
Plurals respect the original spelling when there isn't an adapted word into English. In this case, barretina/barretines is correct in English. In addition Google gives a result of 2,290 entries for Revolt of the Barretinas, while 3,810 entries for Revolt of the Barretines (original plural).

Moreover, English accepts irregular plural formations from other languages (loanwords); like graffito~graffiti, beau~beaux, phenomenon~phenomena, alumnus~alumni, millennium~millennia, etc. So please, do not move the page. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 13:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Argh. Procedural note first: Do not do a cut & paste move!  It kills the history of the page.  You could have just used the "move" function to move it back.  It's going to require administrators to move the page now.  Sigh.


 * Google barely acknowledges this revolt, and the name isn't consistent, so I don't see that as a useful test. Google for Revolt of the Barretines only comes up with 7 hits, and only one hit that isn't Wikipedia or a Wikipedia mirror: http://www.freecatalonia.com/fc/contingut.asp?opc=4&idi=eng&c=4&s=5&ss=0 .  Granted, searching for "Revolt of the Barretinas" -wikipedia turns up absolute crap, a ton of hits but they're only mirrors of the Wikipedia article.


 * http://www.wordmagicsoft.com/dictionary/es-en/barretinas.php claims that barretinas is the plural of barretina, but it looks like an automated computer translation. I checked some other sources and they didn't say anything interesting.  I need to read Henry Kamen again, as he'd be the best source for this, but I don't have access to the library I used to write this article anymore.  Anyway, do you have any sources on this?  Barretina is a word infrequently used in English, so I'd like to see a dictionary saying that it should have the irregular pluralization.  (Don't forget that plenty of English loanwords do *not* maintain the original language's pluralization rules.) SnowFire (talk) 14:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i copied-pasted it, i will move it back to Revolt of the Barretinas. Well, I get 3,810 hits with Google . Jɑυмe (xarrades) 15:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just my search had quotes around the title. To be clear it's entirely possible you're right here; it's too bad Google isn't much help on the proper pluralization of barretina...  maybe the OED would know, but that requires a subscription, it seems.


 * If I recall correctly, I picked the title of this page mostly because that'd be my default "translation" of the term used by the Catalan Wikipedia version of this article. Kamen's "A Forgotten Insurrection of the Seventeenth Century: The Catalan Peasant Rising of 1688" is the main source of the content of this article, and I checked the journal article again - he only refers to it as the "revolt of the segadors of 1688-89."  Less descriptive name since Revolt of the Segadors sounds like the 1640 revolt.  Jaume Dantí's "La revolta dels Gorretes a Catalunya (1687-1689)" uses Gorretes and also mentions Kamen's use as just "La revolta dels Segadors".  If anything, this makes me think that perhaps we should delegate "Barretinas / Barretines" to an alternate title, and move the article either to Gorretes or Segadors (1687-89), since it doesn't seem to be a title used in the main sources. SnowFire (talk) 03:29, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, either name is good. But I think Revolt of the Segadors (Revolta dels Segadors) could lead to some confusion with the 1640 revolt (Guerra dels Segadors). What do you think? IMO the best option would be 'Revolt of the Gorretes. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 17:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * "Gorretes" doesn't flow as well or pronounce so well in English, but it's actually supported by a source I can find, so. Yeah, sounds like a good move to make, though I wish I knew the source that caused the original author to use "Barretinas" ( http://ca.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Revolta_dels_Barretines&oldid=266363 ), as I assume he or she didn't just make it up, and others were apparently able to find and update the article.  You wouldn't happen to know of any other Catalan or Castilian sources on the revolt, would you, that perhaps could clear up the name?  I looked back when I was researching it but didn't have much luck - it's generally a very cursory overview mentioning that the revolt happened, but no details at all. SnowFire (talk) 00:58, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Following this thread after many years, I also strongly support renaming the article as "Revolt of the Barretines", because it is the most natural plural following Catalan-speaking context (plural of barretina). Xavier Dengra (talk) 08:31, 8 February 2024 (UTC)