Talk:Revolutionary Party of Mozambique

General comments about artcle
Thanks for creating this article. I have some comments which relate to me downgrading the article to Start class. Hopefully you find these useful if you are continuing to work on the article.
 * 1. Infobox - the 1982 merger into RENAMO should be in the infobox. I'm somewhat dubious about the ideology of democracy and freedom of religion...Mention of the UNAMO split should probably be here and in the lead.
 * 2. Title - I'm somewhat uncertain that Revolutionary Party of Mozambique should be the title of the article. Perhaps it could be "Revolutionary Party of Mozambique - Africa Livre"? Part of my concern is that this was never really a party in any practical sense. Some sources simply term it a bandit group. But if it remains as is, a clearer explanation is needed around the use of Africa Livre. Some of the sources you have cited do not even mention the RPM. The Historical Dictionary of Mozambique gives an explanation of the various uses of the term Africa Livre.
 * 3. Per WP:TRIBE, use of the term tribal should be avoided. Ethnic would be more suitable.
 * 4. The structure of the article is weak. A simple structure could be: pre-independence, independence to 1982 merger into RENAMO, split from RENAMO, legacy.
 * 5. The role of South Africa, Rhodesia and Malawi is simply missing from the article. There are multiple reliable peer-reviewed sources pointing to the active role of all governments in the 1970s and 1980s (obviously not Zimbabwe after 1979). Some suggest even PIDE was involved with Amos Sumane in the late 1960s. The 1998 Political Handbook is not appropriate here to justify a claim that the RPM/AL was independent.
 * 6. I have not seen it yet, but The War Within. New Perspectives on the Civil War in Mozambique, 1976-1992 released last year has a chapter devoted to RPM/AL and looks to be the most informative text for this article (interview, in French, with the editors here).

Sources for my comments: --Goldsztajn (talk) 00:27, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Peasants and the Policy of ‘Socialisation of the Countryside’ in Zambezia
 * Roots of Counter-Revolution: The "Mozambique National Resistance"
 * Notes on Malawi-Mozambique Relations, 1961-1987
 * Thanks for these suggestions, but I knew all that already. I am in the process of developing the article. No offense, but this was nominated for DYK, not GA. Applodion (talk) 00:41, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No offence taken. Nominating for DKY with some fairly inconsistent issues about the article seems premature ... I left my comments because you rated it as B class and I didn't feel that was accurate - I only wanted to provide justification for the reduction in the rating.--Goldsztajn (talk) 01:11, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Use of Political Handbook of the World 1998 as a souce
- Hi, taking your reversion of my edit here. I removed the statement that PRM/AL "was not known to have any support from outside forces" drawing on the 1998 Political Handbook because it does not have any serious credibility. I didn't do this because of my opinion, I did this on the basis of two points:
 * 1. the preponderance of sources from area specialists
 * 2. Banks and Muller are generalist encyclopedia editors, not researchers and provide no source for their claim. (personally I suspect their error originates in their failure to understand that Africa Livre and the RPM are the same)

Let's examine peer-reviewed sources: "In the north of Mozambique, beginning in 1977, acts of sabotage of a relatively minor nature began to be perpetrated by an organisation known as 'Africa Livre', based in Malawi." (p.635) "In order to support the infiltration of bandits in the north of Mozambique, the South African regime began to use Malawi, by promoting the integration in the new armed bandit organisation of 'Africa Livre" (p.638) "The former PIDE agents based in Malawi continued to strike across the border into Zambezia province, just as they had done during the liberation war. Now they linked up with former COREMO and UNAR members under the leadership of Amos Sumane for their sorties into the district of Milange. These bands would come to be known as 'Africa Livre'" (p.116) "The most important strengthening of the MNR came about through negotiations with the COREMO/UNAR/Africa Livre bands operating out of Malawi."(p.118) "a small independent anti-Frelimo movement called Africa Livre operating near the town of Milange and almost certainly receiving some support from Malawi or at least certain elements within the Malawi government." (p.497) (NB: use of the term independent here is referring to the MNR). "...there is no evidence that UNAMO is anything more than a separatist faction, based on ethnic resentments, nor that it has any kind of autonomous social or military base apart from private financing, allegedly through Malawi or Portugal."(p.38) The clear preponderance of academic scholarship points to the RPM/AL being subsidised by external forces. It is simply WP:UNDUE to include an uncredited claim from non-specialists that states otherwise. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 15:14, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * First, David Hedges, University of Eduardo Mondlande, Maputo, academic historian, writing on Mozambique and Southern Africa since late 1970s:
 * Second, Paul Fauvet, British journalist living in Mozambique since 1980:
 * Third, Tom Young, academic at SOAS, 20+ years teaching Southern African politics, co-author of Confronting Leviathan (key text on Mozambique in period 1975-1992)
 * Fourth, Colin Darch, University of Capetown, Democratic Governance specialist:
 * Also, in the edit summary of your revert, you state Banks and Muller "is properly attributed" - but it's only properly attributed in your edit, but the claim by Banks and Muller is an unreferenced quote. I have no difficulty accepting tertiary source per WP:RS, in the simplest sense, but it is not appropriate when all other reliable sources contradict it and those sources are from far more reputable, qualified researchers.--Goldsztajn (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Have managed to get a hold of The War Within: New Perspectives on the Civil War in Mozambique, 1976-1992 with Sérgio Chicava's chapter focussed on Zambezia. It supports the position that UNAR/RPM was getting external support. It also highlights the complexity regarding the name and Africa Livre.--Goldsztajn (talk) 16:43, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input! While I have access to all other sources you listed, I have not yet been able to get a hold of "The War Within". Could you perhaps add some information from that book to the article? This is just a request, of course - if you cannot do so, no problem! Applodion (talk) 21:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * From what I can see from a quick comparison, the chapter by Chichava is more or less the same text as the PDF of his in French you found. His text reinforces the highly localised nature of the RPM/AL. I'll also try to convert the French references you've used to the English version if you don't get a copy of the English version shortly.--Goldsztajn (talk) 23:14, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No need for hurry. As you have probably noticed, I have not yet included all information from his French text anyway. Applodion (talk) 23:18, 18 November 2019 (UTC)