Talk:Rhinemaidens

Chéreau
I wonder about "resolved the water problem". Chéreau's Ring was memorable, and extremely funny in parts, but I don't know that he "resolved" the problem. Perhaps "addressed"'? Just a suggestion. Tim riley (talk) 17:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * He "resolved" the problem of staging an underwater scene by playing the scene out of the water, using the dam. Having said that, "addressed" is much more elegant, so I've changed it,

Brianboulton (talk) 21:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Name
Nice article. Shouldn't it be called Rhinemaidens (Wagner)? Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Very possibly. I'll consider this. Brianboulton (talk) 09:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I certaily would vote for that sort of change. Indeed, if they are original to Wagner, why not just call the article Rhinemaidens?--Peter cohen (talk) 12:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The title wasn't free when I first developed the article; Rhinemaidens then linked to an article called Nix, about water-sprites generally. I changed the link a few weeks ago, so it now comes to here. Since the article is nominated for GA as Wagner's Rhinemaidens, should any change be left until after the GA process? Or can it be done now? Brianboulton (talk) 23:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at your user page, you've had more experience than I of the process. You could ask on the nominations talk page.--15:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's apparently OK to change the name during the GA process. My preference is for the Ssilvers suggestion: Rhinemaidens (Wagner). This is because, should I pick up my future idea of writing articles on other Ring characters it will be necessary to use a style e.g. Wotan (Wagner) to distinguish from the existing article on the mythical figure. If anyone feels that this is a misguided choice, let me know. Brianboulton (talk) 10:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not having heard a dissenting voice, I made it Rhinemaidens (Wagner). I've fixed the redirects and altered the GAN page. Maybe the new name will entice a GA review (perhaps should have called it Naked Rhinemaidens). Brianboulton (talk) 22:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Naked Rhinemaidens
I don't think that the current ROH production is the first to feature these. DIdn't the Bayreuth Peter Hall one have them too?--Peter cohen (talk) 12:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't know. The article doesn't claim that the ROH production was the first in this respect, there could have been others. I mention it as the most recent instance. Brianboulton (talk) 17:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that Hall's wasn't the first either, although his use of a reflected pool and butt-naked singers probably comes closer to Wagner's vision than any before. Superb article, BTW. I hope you get your GA rating! Are planning any others (Wagner's Giants/Gods/Dragons, etc)?--Dogbertd (talk) 18:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've confirmed that the Hall production did have naked Rhinemaidens. I've also added a mention of the wheeled stands of 1876 and a piccie.

Categories
Since the article is about characters in an opera, it seems odd that the categories of Germanic myth and Legendary creatures are retained, but the Opera category removed as unsuitable. I am seeking an explanation from the editor who did this. Brianboulton (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ....and he has explained. No further problem. Brianboulton (talk) 09:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

GAN on hold
Article is quite good over all, couldn't find much. Leave me a note when done. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "Alberich steals the gold: Das Rheingold, Scene I – the initiating act of the entire Ring drama." - should that be an em dash?
 * Yes - done. Brianboulton (talk) 09:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "German legend of Lorelei" - links to an article about a rock...check dab
 * The link article isn't only about the rock, it covers the legend as well, and also includes a translation of Heine's poem. It's the only relevant article on the dab page. Admittedly its not a great link, but it's all there is. Alternative is delinking. Brianboulton (talk) 09:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "Within the story told in the operas, the background of the Rhinemaiden characters is undisclosed. Nobody knows where they come from." - second sentence reads awkward, suggest a merge...
 * Yes, I've reworded these sentences into one. Brianboulton (talk) 09:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Everything else looks good; passing. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 06:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This GAN has passed, and this is now a good article! If you found this review helpful, please consider helping out a fellow editor by reviewing another good article nomination. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor, if you wish.

Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 06:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, DHMO, for the review. And thanks, Brian, for creating WP:Wagner's second GA.--Peter cohen (talk) 16:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Source for Hanna Schwarz as Flosshilde
Schwarz was removed during the FAC due to its sourcing. I have managed to locate the book mentioned and here is the data in case someone would like to integrate her back in.

Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians by Nicolas Slonimsky (Editor), Laura Diane Kuhn (Advising Editor), and Dennis McIntre (Associate Classic Editor); published by Schirmer Books, 2001; 8th edition; Volume 5; ISBN: 0-02-865530-3 (volume 5), 0-02-865525-7 (the whole set).

(p. 3249) Schwarz, Hanna, German mezzo-soprano; b. Hamburg, Aug 15, 1943. She studied in Hamburg, Hannover, and Essen. In 1970 she made her operatic debut as Maddalena in Rioletto in Hannover. [...] In 1975 she made her debut at the Bayreuth Festival as Flosshilde in Das Rheingold, and continued to sing there during the next decade. In 1977 she made her U.S. debut as Fricka in Das Rheingold at the San Francisco Opera, [...]

Hope that was of help. Jappalang (talk) 11:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this. It will certainly make a reference to include in the article on Schwarz. I know that Brian is wary of the danger of things getting rather prose listy in this section. All the other singers mentioned are covered in rather more detail in their own articles. For me the most attractive feature of mentioned Schwarz is that she is the most recent name. However I would be more interested in mentioning Lotte Lehmann and Elisabeth Schumann, two of the biggest names of the inter-war years. One or both could join Sutherland in the list of interpretators away from Bayreuth. Would you regard a page at the Lotte Lehmann foundation and/or a referenced page at the Elisabeth Schumann Website  as reliable?--Peter cohen (talk) 13:42, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Lotte Lehmann foundation looks reliable based on their declaration of sources and about page. Elisabeth Schumann Website could be iffy.  It states its sources, but seems to be a one-man operation by a freelance editor-writer.  Perhaps you could bring them up at the FAC or the Reliable Source Noticeboard to have a second opinion.  Jappalang (talk) 01:20, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations on FA!
I meant to support, but came too late. Johnbod (talk) 18:18, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks.--Peter cohen (talk) 19:05, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

File:Wagnersmaidens.jpg
Why don't we have a color version of File:Wagnersmaidens.jpg? I suggest using one of the colored pictures as the main/FA pic instead of this black&white reproduction. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 09:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Featured Article
Awwww, I started this page. Congrats everyone. Maaya まあや 12:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Rhine maidens
Should be written as two words. Ksnow (talk) 16:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)Ksnow
 * Not when used in the context of the opera. Brianboulton (talk) 18:06, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Dead link
Is the dead link moved to http://www.wagnersociety.org/library.html? DrKiernan (talk) 17:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Rhinemaidens vs. Rhine-daughters
Speight Jenkins insists that they should be called Rhine-daughters, not Rhine-maidens. Is that a better translation of Rheintöchter? &mdash;Ashley Y 10:54, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The literal translation is indeed Rhine Daughters (as the article makes clear in the first sentence). Despite this, the vast majority of English sources call them "Rhinemaidens", which the article follows. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Image: "Andvari and the Rhinemaidens"
This image, File:Andvari and the Rhinemaidens by Harry George Theaker 1920.jpg was added to the article in June 2014. It is from an unreliable source, a children's book published in 1920, which incorrectly depicts a relationship between Andvari and the Rhinemaidens. Andvari is a dwarf from the Poetic Edda, from whom Wagner derived his Alberich character but is by no means the same person. The Rhinemaidens do not appear in the Poetic Edda, and their interaction with Alberich in the Ring cycle is entirely Wagner's invention. It's a pretty picture, but misleading,  so I have deleted it. It's not as though the article is short of images. Brianboulton (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Issues to check
Please check for MOS:BADITALICS, and there are HarvRef errors everywhere. See Category:Harv and Sfn template errors, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  17:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I've fixed the harvref issue; can you elaborate on your italicization concern? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Nikki! I didn't do a close check, but are there proper nouns in foreign language that are italicized?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sandy, there are titles italicized, but no other proper nouns that I see, other than the parentheticals allowed by BADITALICS. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Nikki ... I removed my note from WP:URFA/2020 and appreciate that you did my work for me :) Bst, Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  23:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)