Talk:Rhoticity

This article has been split; see also Talk:Rhotic and non-rhotic accents.

Yat
I added a fact tag to the claim that Yat is non-rhotic, because I doubt that that is true. Cardamon (talk) 07:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Brazil
All dialects of Brazil use r in some way. There are just informal differences in the pronounce and use it in infinitive verbs, what I bet not being (at least exactly) non-rhotacity.

The meaning of "(ʁ/h)" varies with the dialect, the region, the speaker, the socioeconomic profile of the speaker, we basically use everything that sounds guttural for this phoneme, from x/χ through ʁ/ʀ/r or h/ɦ to even ɣ or ç if appropriate in some words.

influenced by São Paulo dialects and caipira) -> ʁ/r/r
 * Portugal -> (ʁ/r)/ɾ/ɾ
 * Southern Brazil dialects (except Florianópolis which is somewhat similitar to Portuguese and Rio de Janeiro dialects and much of Paraná,

many speakers in São Paulo, most speakers in Northern Brazil and non-caipira Minas Gerais, and cultivated speakers in caipira areas -> (ʁ/h)/(ʁ/h)/(ʁ/h)
 * Northeastern Brazil, mostly middle and upper class speech in Rio de Janeiro (also the formal version of the dialect), non-caipira Espírito Santo, Standard Brazilian Portuguese,

(present in the entire country and socially accepted as formal in many environments), mildly cultivated speech in Caipira areas -> (ʁ/h)/(ʁ/h)/nothing a few regionalities of Caipira being both mildly cultivated and influenced by other dialects -> (ʁ/h)/(ɹ/ɻ/ɾ)/(ɹ/ɻ/ɾ)
 * Rio de Janeiro lower and lower middle class speech/Rio de Janeiro informal speech (I'm from Rio and this is my native speech), substandard Brazilian Portuguese
 * São Paulo city traditional dialect, still strong in much of the inner city -> (ʁ/h)/ɾ/ɾ
 * São Paulo megalopolis modern (most of the lower and lower middle classes, some middle and upper classes informal speech) dialect,
 * Caipira, pure -> (ʁ/h)/(ɹ/ɻ)/nothing Lguipontes (talk) 15:38, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Catalan section
The comments about Catalan language are true only for most dialects of this language, including the ones spoken in Catalonia, Balearic Islands, South of France and North of Valencian Community, at least. However, the final "r" is pronounced in the dialects spoken in the central and Southern areas of the Valencian Community, more or less from the town of Valencia to the South of the linguistic domain of the Catalan language. In other words, the Southern dialects are rhotic. This could be around 25%-30% of the speakers of Catalan (I do not have the exact figures at hand). Therefore I suggest an edition of this section which takes this into account. However, my knowledge on this science is very limited and I would prefer not to do so for myself, but to ask for this edition to a specialist with better bibliographical sources.

Lemadezorn (talk) 21:54, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Forms of non-rhoticity
It appears from the examples given on this page that non-rhoticity has two main categories. One is change of to an approximant and vowel, causing vowel lengthening in some cases, and the other is deletion of the rhotic without any vowel lengthening. The first change occurs in English and German, which both have approximants as rhotics (one an alveolar approximant, the other a uvular approximant), while the second occurs in Catalan and Asturian, which have an alveolar trill or tap. This fact should be described in the article, but it needs a source for verification. Does anyone know of such a source: meaning, one that describes the types of non-rhoticity, and attempts to explain which type occurs where? — Eru·tuon 15:28, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Can we clarify the question? I don’t understand what is meant by the statement that /r/ changes to become an approximant and a vowel in English (RP) and German (non-rhotic). The sound /r/ is an approximant consonant. What, then, does /r/ change to in a non-rhotic accent? A non-rhotic accent is one in which /r/ is not realized in specified contexts. Is the statement about historical change? RoachPeter (talk) 09:55, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, he's saying that rhotics can either be vocalised or deleted. Alakzi (talk) 02:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)