Talk:Ricardo Arjona/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Basilisk4u (talk · contribs) 13:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I will review this article. It is by far the longest one I have done, so if any onlookers want to help with the review, that would be fantastic! Thanks. Basilisk4u (talk) 13:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! I'll be with you throughout the review process, as i made the article from scratch. --Hahc21 (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Basilisk4u, I'm willing to help out with the review. Erick (talk) 22:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Thanks a lot.  Basilisk4u (talk) 03:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Review
For now, the first thing I notice is that the lead should not be more than four paragraphs. Please consider shortening or combining paragraphs. Basilisk4u (talk) 13:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, i now the guidelines says no more than 4 paragraphs, but there was so many information than i felt were needed on the lead... I'll be working to reduce the number to 4. --Hahc21 (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I reduced them to 4. Take a look. --Hahc21 (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A note: Argentinian certifications are not available until the 2012 Gardel Awards are held, and the CAPIF restores their website. Until then, those sources will be unverifiable... --Hahc21 (talk) 00:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The site was attacked earlier by a hacker group which is why it was taken down and the Mexican site seems to be going through maintenance. I reformatted the certifications so that each of the certification site displays all the certifications by the artist. Erick (talk) 21:53, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

(reply to Hahc21) Yes, it seems the Mexican site is going through maintenance on the certifications. It has not been updated for over two years now. Per WP:LINKROT, a broken link does not make a source unverifiable as the information was there to which I added the accessdates the day I found the certifications. Erick (talk) 22:18, 16 May 2012 (UTC) Ok. Thanks for the information. And thanks for helping out on thw review process. --Hahc21 (talk) 00:22, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Archiving
I'll be archiving all sources to avoid a dead link. It'll take some time, but i'll do it :) --Hahc21 (talk) 16:02, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Prose comments

 * Note: I will also go through the article and make small corrections where I see fit. Additionally, Spanish is my second language and I am still learning, so please correct me if I misinterpret a source or quote.  Thank you! Basilisk4u (talk) 04:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * At your services, ma'am! --Hahc21 (talk) 05:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Lead

 * The first sentence of the article should not mention his Grammy winnings per WP:UNDUE to maintain a neutral point of view.
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "In 1993, he received from the then President of Guatemala, Ramiro de León Carpio, the "Rafael Álvarez Ovalle" Order for his international merits." Change to "In 1993, he received the "Rafael Álvarez Ovalle" Order from the then President of Guatemala, Ramiro de León Carpio, for his international merits."  Also, the name of the award should not be in quotes.}
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Arjona begun his music career at age 21..." -->  "Arjona began his music career at age 21..."
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I feel that calling him an "international popstar" may be a bit much, I will try to think of another word.
 * You're right, i think the word is placing him alongside Madonna and Britney Spears as an international popstar. The problem is, i don't find a sustitute :(. I don't know which word could fit in there. What that phrase means is that, with Animal Nocturno he became a successful and known singer throughout Latin America and the United States, which, as it is a couple of coutries, the word "international" fits right. And as he is a pop singer, i pasted "popstar" and written "international popstar" as also many sources had claimed he is. I'm thinking on this "...he released, in 1993, his fourth album Animal Nocturno, which catapulted him into the mainstream music scene, and paved the way for subsequent albums...". Whataya think? --Hahc21 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Since the album gained popularity in the United States and Latin America, you could be specific and just mention that. I think that using the word "international" would imply that he also became famous in Europe, Asia, and Africa. How about: "...he released, in 1993, his fourth album Animal Nocturno, which gained him significant popularity throughout the United States and Latin America, and paved the way for subsequent albums..." Basilisk4u (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 15:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Ricardo Arjona has become the most successful Guatemalan and Central American act of all time, with more than 20 million albums sold to date." I think the source said that he is one of the most successful Latin American artists of all time, I would recommend changing it to "Ricardo Arjona is considered to be one of the most successful Latin American artists of all time, with more than 20 million albums sold to date."
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think another phrase should be used for "went independent", maybe "Arjona independently founded his own record company..."
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The names of genres, except for Latin, Tejano, and Norteño, should not be capitalized.
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe you could specifically mention what critics like about his lyrics. And possibly change the sentence to "Arjona is best known for his skills as a lyricist and themes on his songs..." "Arjona is noted for his lyrical style, and often addresses topics such as..."
 * ✅ Critics have encountered opinions about his skills as both a lyricist or a musician. So let me think how i can write it. --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Raping should just be called rape
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by "overt sexualism"? It could have a few meanings.  Is it sexism, meaning discrimination against a specific sex, and the "overt" means that he is openly sexist?  Or is it open expression of sexuality?
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Four Arjona albums had reached number one..." "Four Arjona albums have reached number one..."  This is in there a few times.
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "and some other awards from..." --> "as well as awards from..."
 * ✅ - The issue is, he received the Latin Heritage Award and other awards from the ASCAP. I wrote it as this: "the "Latin Heritage" Award as well as other awards from the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers". --Hahc21 (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * You have a paragraph break right after In 1993, he received the "Rafael Álvarez Ovalle" Order from the then President of Guatemala, Ramiro de León Carpio, for his international merits. even though there is only two sentences. I suggest merging of some of the content from the second paragraph. Erick (talk) 19:13, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 00:46, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Biography and personal life

 * There are a few sentences such as the second halves of the first and fourth paragraphs that need citations.
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 18:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The first sentence of the fourth paragraph seems a bit out of place, as the rest of the paragraph does not talk about him recording Déjame Decir Que Te Amo.
 * ✅ I deleted it. it is further explained in the career section, so it's not needed here. --Hahc21 (talk) 18:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "...where he reputedly said he spent six hours..." --> "...where he claimed to have spent six hours..."
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 15:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The links to the Latin Grammy/Grammy and the #1 Latin songs lists seem out of place for a biography article. A more fitting article to put under See also would be "List of Guatemalans" and/or "Music of Guatemala. Erick (talk) 05:46, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See also
 * ✅ --Hahc21 (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Beginnings and early breakthrough

 * "The label attempted to make Arjona a Latin-lover type and then, the album failed on charts." --> "With the album, the label attempted to portray Arjona as a stereotypical Latin-lover type."  Then add the part about failing to chart into the sentence about critical success.
 * ✅ -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 23:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Because of his experiences on the music industry while recording this album, he decided not to make an album again." He never made an album again?
 * Yes, he did. :). So I have no idea of how to rewrite it. Suggestions? I just followed the sources... -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 23:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, how it is written makes it sound like he never made another album, which he certainly did. The source says he decided to abandon the music industry and become a teacher. You could say, "Because of his negative experiences while recording the album and its commercial failure, he decided to abandon the music industry and become a schoolteacher."  Basilisk4u (talk) 19:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks! -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 14:35, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe add something about how he began writing for other artists after the first album.
 * Ok. -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 23:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

In general

 * It seems that every time there is a mention of an album being released, the Allmusic review of the album is also mentioned. I feel this to be a bit unnecessary.  Perhaps some could be removed and some replaced with reviews from other sources, because Allmusic, while it is a great source, it is not the only one.  Basilisk4u (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't found other reviews. Only Independiente, 5to Piso and Poquita Ropa have been superficially covered by other sources. So i don't know what to do on it... -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 23:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Images

 * "McDonald's (above) and The Walt Disney World (below) are two of the companies named by Arjona on his song "Si El Norte Fuera El Sur"." This information is neither mentioned nor sourced in the body of the article.
 * I deleted them by now. ✅ -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 01:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I would not use an image of the September 11 attacks. Erick (talk) 19:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Why? I mean, i know how hard it was when it happened. I was in New York City that day (i arrived to the country on a goverment visit on Sept.9) and i lived the events. It was such a shocking experience... But i see no reason to avoid using the image, even when it's directly related with the topic. -- Hahc21 [ TALK ] [ CONTRIBS  ] 01:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I got a bit carried away. Erick (talk) 01:51, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry ;) -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 02:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * (Optional) There is a parameter (alt) that allows you to describe a picture which is useful for readers who cannot images. Not required, but just throwing that out there. Erick (talk) 02:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll be checking ot out soon. :) -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 03:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Samples

 * The sample for Mesías exceeds the maximum length you may use in a sample.
 * I'll get it fixed. -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 01:46, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 02:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * The sample for Fuiste Tu is fine. Erick (talk) 19:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Misc

 * The disambig links toolbar found three links that are disambiguous . Erick (talk) 02:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 02:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * * ❌ There's still one left. Erick (talk) 03:19, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow! I thoug there were only one of those. Now, it is done. -- Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 03:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Continuing review
So sorry for the delay. I recently had jaw surgery and I have been recovering, please excuse me if I take a long time to respond. I am continuing here as the sections above have gotten a tad messy. Thank you Basilisk4u (talk) 01:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * o.0 don't worry!. Now it's me and you. Erick went on vacations and will be out 'til June 16. — Hahc21 [ <font color="RED">TALK ] [ <font color="GREEN">CONTRIBS  ] 02:32, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Some more points

1990s International breakthrough, Si El Norte Fuera El Sur and Sin Daños a Terceros

 * Give some specific details about Del Otro Lado del Sol's lack of success (like chart positions)
 * I'm afraid that information of that album other thatn the tracklist and cover art doesn't exist :(. —<font color="#333333">Hahc <font color="#333333">21 01:28, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's okay. I think one of your sources says that it "didn't have much success", which is the only thing I can find.


 * "and became the one which took him to fame" Maybe you should say "and served as his breakthrough album", although wasn't Jesús, Verbo No Sustantivo the one that made him famous?
 * With Jesus he became known on central america, but Animal was the one ho made him famous across latin america.
 * Mention that in the article Basilisk4u (talk) 15:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

—<font color="#333333">Hahc <font color="#333333">21 02:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "consolidated his reputation"? Perhaps "confirmed his reputation" would be better
 * Done.
 * The second paragraph of this section has a lot of unsourced statements about commercial success: "quadruple Platinum certification in the United States and Argentina. Historias reached No.43 on the Billboard Top Latin Albums. Several hit singles were released from it, including "Te Conozco" (No.3 on Billboard Latin Songs) and "Señora De Las Cuatro Décadas" (No.7 on Billboard Latin Songs)."
 * Spell out the word "number" as opposed to "No."
 * I can't seem to find the part about Arjona claiming many times that his fourth and fifth studio albums are the best-selling of his career in the source given
 * The ref says: "Los dos discos que más copias han vendido en su carrera son "Animal nocturno" (1993) e "Historias" (1994)". I've also restored a source from his discography which supports the statement as claimed by Arjona. This ref i'll add says "En esas condiciones saqué discos como Animal nocturno e Historias, que dicho sea de paso son los dos discos que más copias han vendido en mi carrera", as said by Arjona.
 * "This was the first album in which Arjona mainly explored beyond the theme of love, to include nationalism and globalization" I don't think the comma is needed
 * Done.
 * The Billboard chart positions need sources
 * I'm fixing it to all the career section.
 * "Sin Daños a Terceros also enjoyed a huge commercial success" I think "huge" is not quite neutral.
 * Done.

2000–2005: Galería Caribe, world tour, Santo Pecado, hiatus and Adentro

 * "The singer commented that twelve months were needed to make the album, stating that he 'had least friends before starting with the project.'" I think this translation is a loses a little meaning in English, do you know exactly what he is trying to say?  I'm not quite sure what he means.  Also, it should be "less friends"
 * Well, he's trying to say that before stating the recording process of GC, he had more friends. I think i'll change it that way.


 * The link given for many of the Allmusic reviews/information only goes to the page for the review Dejame Decir Que Te Amo. Make sure you find the right pages for the sources.
 * Mmm are you sure? I checked the ones on this section and they're all correct.


 * Billboard in Billboard 200 needs to be italicized
 * Done.


 * The paragraph about "Mesías" is a bit confusing. Try to talk about what the song is about before discussing the controversy. Also, the description of the song is a word-for-word copy from the source and it is not in quotes.  Make sure to reword this.
 * I fixed the word-by-word copy and quotated. I'm swapping the text to first introduce the song, and then explain the controversy.


 * Photo caption: "Mesías" was directly associated with the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center." I wouldn't say "directly associated" with the attacks, because it sounds like the song caused them.  Say something like "Fans and critics noted connections between the lyrics of "Mesías" and the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, resulting in an FBI investigation."
 * Done. Good sugestion.


 * "...he wanted to give them a second chance to sound on the radio" --> "...he wanted to give them a second chance to receive radio airplay"
 * Done.


 * "Aside from that, the album received..." --> "Despite this, the album received..."
 * Done.

I think i've fixed all. Hey, i'm encapsulating the sections into divhide to make easier to read the page. Cheers! —<font color="#333333">Hahc <font color="#333333">21 02:44, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Another reviewer has brought up the issue that the "Criticism and controversy" section may give undue weight to negative reviews of Arjona. I am not exactly sure how to deal with this issue, so I may need to request a second opinion about this. Thank you for your patience! Basilisk4u (talk) 20:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha i moved the section to my sandbox. It really gives a bad impression over Arjona. I'll develop it to be neutral on my sandbox and then re-add it. Since the article has been copyedited, i think there won't be more prose issues... Cheers! —<font color="#333333">Hahc <font color="#333333">21 01:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I am nearly ready to pass the article. There are not many prose issues I can find, and the only thing I would recommend now is to add more citations in the "Collaborators" section.  Basilisk4u (talk) 06:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Awwwww thanks! I'm very happy it finally passed. You deserve a barnstar for your work. Cheers! —<font color="#333333">Hahc <font color="#333333">21 16:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)