Talk:Riccardo Giacconi

Untitled
Sacconi is not only an Italian-born scientist, he did all his studies till the PhD in Italy, this is the base of his work later. How can we neglect this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonio.napoli (talk • contribs) 16:25, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Again: "Italian born" in English means "Italian since his/her birth", it does not mean that someone (Hubble? :-)) kidnapped Giacconi in his cradle and brought him to the U.S.. Nationality is important culturally, Giacconi is and will always be culturally Italian, and also American, since he lives in both cultures. The same is valid for Fermi, Segrè, and all the millions Italians who emigrated in U.S.A. Ciao, Alex2006 (talk) 16:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Nationality and WP:OPENPARA
This discussion deals with the change in the opening paragraph from American to Italian-American, against what the WP:OPENPARA guideline says.

The reason for the change is written in the edit comment. Please go to WP:OPENPARA (which is a Wikipedia guideline) and read it. Of course, if you don't understand it, you are welcome to ask me again. Alex2006 (talk) 08:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

P.S. I forgot to say that thanks to this guideline, we "won" (among others) Fermi, Segrè, Bruno Rossi and - last but not least - Lagrange: on the other side, we "lost" Giacconi and Viterbi. I think that this is a fair deal... :-) Alex2006 (talk) 11:41, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! OK, but it seems that Giacconi has the Italian citizenship. A person can hold two citizenship, and if you have one, for any reason, you are legally Italian. Giacconi, holding the Italian passport, can vote for example. So I don't understand who makes this kind of decision...We should just write there that he is Italian - American.

Moreover, according to this. I will be soon German only. In fact, I will have soon the German passport, while keeping the Italian one. Condition that entitles me to vote, and only Italian can vote. Therefore I can conclude that I am Italian for the Italian government in the act of voting, while I am German for Wikipedia. Is the power of Wikipedia stronger than the one of the native legislator in defining the nationality?

I read it, and it quite vague. It say that also the citizenship (i.e. nationality) counts. He has italian nationality, all his studies have been made in Italy. He is also Italian. Please be serious on that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OPENPARA#Opening_paragraph


 * No, OPENPARA says that in the opening paragraph it goes the citizenship/nationality held when he/she became notable, Now, Giacconi moved to the U.S. right after his Laurea, so he became notable in the U.S. If he had done his main research in Italy, we would have written Italian. Alex2006 (talk) 13:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Alessandro, quoting from the page you referred to: In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.

I understand that it is also the country where he is a citizen. Being Italian citizen, having the nationality, he is indeed Italian - American. Here there is no doubt. Do you want to discuss on the phone? Otherwise we will never solve this. Because if you are right, I am German, but I am not!! Accorging to Montessori, an adult is formed after 24 years old. Giacconi at 24 years old was still in Italy. He is fully Italian. Later, he got the USA citizenship as well, and now he is Italian - American. But maybe he got the USA citizenship just for convenience...This doesn't not mean he is a complete US people. I will get the German nationality soon, I don't do because I feel German, but for my own convenience. At the end, I will still be Italian. You should ask Giacconi what does he think? does he feel US citizen or Italian, or both?:-))
 * I have no doubt either that he is Italian-american: but I don't think that you still understand how Wikipedia works. There is a guideline (WP:OPENPARA), established through user consensus, and what it says is clear. Since Giacconi emigrated to the U.S. right after his degree, and did all his important research there, in the opening paragraph it should be mentioned only his American nationality, disregarding whether he was homesick, drank Chianti, played Mandolin or other amenities. As long as this guideline remains in this form, it must be applied in this form. This means that in the opening paragraph (NOT in the whole article, of course) there is no place for a double citizenship/nationality: he is described either as Italian or as American. And since he became notable in the U.S., we write "American". If you don't agree about the guideline (that has advantages and disadvantages) you can go to the respective talk page, and discuss there. Until then, you should leave the article as it was before your changes. Alex2006 (talk) 14:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Third opinion
wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.


 * Viewpoint by Alessandro57: Riccardo Giacconi ethnicity in the opening paragraph should be described as American, since when he became notable he was and worked in the U.S. (he left Italy right after his degree and never returned). This is according to WP:OPENPARA.


 * Viewpoint by (name here): ....


 * Third opinion by srich32977:
 * No second opinion has been offered, so I have no third opinion to offer. (This article is coming off my watchlist.) – S. Rich (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Viewpoint by otherone:
 * I suggest as "italian and american". Or "italian american-naturalized". U.S. allows dual citizenship. Giacconi was all his life italian, and part of it he was american. My guess, the problem comes when you want to claim the prize for a country. It is pointless to discuss that, the article already decribes how and where all the research was done. Let the readers get their own idea instead of imposing one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.55.24.49 (talk) 00:38, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:OPENPARA is a guideline of wikipedia, so it must be followed. I am not against what you write, but you have to discuss the change of the rule at the talk page of the manual of style, not here. Alex2006 (talk) 04:08, 3 June 2015 (UTC)