Talk:Rich Piana

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedily deleted because this is a recent death who is notable enough to be featured there and therefore, the article should be able to stay up. --PootisHeavy (talk) 14:42, 26 August 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree. Very notable subject, I don't even follow body building but I read a lot about him and he was featured in mainstream news sites.  I see a great need this page should exist. 73.104.48.134 (talk) 11:57, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

this is very well known person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.89.93 (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

This page should not be speedily deleted because his death was notable enough to be featured on the top Italian newspaper R ED G OLPE (TALK) 11:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 27 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. ~ GB fan 21:31, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Rich Piana (bodybuilder) → Rich Piana – The article title does not require disambiguation, however, the article name "Rich Piana" is locked for re-creation as the previous article on Piana was deleted after an AfD discussion at Articles for deletion/Rich Piana. Either the page should be moved or the latest article should be deleted and blocked. WWGB (talk) 01:20, 27 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Support – I agree. No reason that his name needs to be disambiguated.  There is, at present, only one "Rich Piana" article.  His.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:13, 27 August 2017 (UTC)  03:12, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Piana was a very notable person so I'm surprised that his original page was deleted in the first place. Rossbawse (talk) 03:31, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Philafrenzy (talk) 09:42, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support R ED G OLPE (TALK) 11:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support passes WP:GNG In ictu oculi (talk) 14:01, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support 86WikiEditor (talk) 20:17, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. Unfortunately, he may now be more notable now after his unusual death than he was a year and a half ago when the AfD discussion took place. —BarrelProof (talk) 06:53, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - I was a delete !voter at the AfD, but the coverage of his death by multiple reliable sources means he clearly passes WP:GNG now.  Given his apparent notoriety in the bodybuilding world,  I was indeed very surprised that I couldn't find better sources for the previous version of the article, but the consensus was that there wasn't enough in the way of suitable (independent, reliable) references to keep the article at that time.  The title was protected from recreation due to subsequent attempts to recreate the article in violation of that consensus, and without improving the sourcing.  But I now agree that this protection should be lifted so that this article can be moved to the "proper" title.  Note that, the administrator who imposed the protection, is not terribly active at the moment, so I have filed a request for unprotection at WP:RFPP. -- Finngall   talk  21:14, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Admin help
Please enable the above "move". Apparently, this "move" requires an admin, since the use of "Rich Piana" as an article title was previously used and is now "blocked" from being used again. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:49, 28 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name
Is there evidence his real name was Richard? Philafrenzy (talk) 09:42, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * He used the name himself . WWGB (talk) 11:59, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks but I am not sure he wrote that or chose the name on that page. I meant something more like an official document that confirms he was actually Richard. (Just for the lead, not proposing a move). Philafrenzy (talk) 12:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

His autopsy report lists his name as Richard Piana 13ov7 (talk) 14:16, 10 November 2017 (UTC)


 * While we're on the subject of his name, can we please note that there is no middle name in the autopsy report and no middle name on his tombstone. Anonymous IP addresses with no edit history have edited the article to add an alleged middle name. One of those edits had no edit summary. The other one falsely claimed that the alleged middle name was on his tombstone. —BarrelProof (talk) 05:56, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I see that at 18:06, 3 June 2018 (UTC), the alleged middle name was added again at the top of the article. No edit summary was provided. I have not found this middle name in any of the cited reliable sources, including his tombstone and autopsy report, so I removed it again. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:25, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, there is a new photo here. That's different from the temporary marker shown here. It includes the middle name "Eugene"! —BarrelProof (talk) 20:45, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Age/DOB
Does anyone have an official record showing Piana's date of birth? The medical examiner recorded his age as 46, which would mean he was born in 1970, but most websites list his year of birth as 1971. 13ov7 (talk) 15:05, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't need to be 1970. A birth date in early 1971 (any date before August 25) would make him 46 at the time of his death. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:55, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I found the date May 5 listed as his birthday in a self-published Twitter source . We have several sources that say his birth year was 1971. Many cited sources say his age at death was 46, so this establishes his birth date as May 5, 1971. Anonymous IPs and accounts with no substantial edit history have been repeatedly changing the birth date to September 26, 1970 (which is contrary to the sources that say he was born in 1971), or September 26, 1971 (which is contrary to the sources that say his age at death was 46). None of these edits have provide any edit summary or cited a source, so I have been reverting them. Help would be appreciated to find additional sufficiently reliable sources. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:02, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


 * His real birthday is September 26, 1970. Here is his gravestone: https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/349/182730833_1513441597.jpg, https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/349/182730833_1513441571.jpg, source: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/182730833/rich-piana — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.81.20.130 (talk) 22:41, 10 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Here is him confirming September 26 is his birthday: https://www.instagram.com/p/8HKveyo-R0/?hl=en. Autopsy report lists his age at 46: http://www.evolutionofbodybuilding.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/rich-piana-medical-report_Page_1-768x995.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.81.20.130 (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The gravestone says he was born in 1970, but the other "Findagrave" link above says he was born in 1971. Presumably, the gravestone is more reliable source than the other link? The article currently says he was born in 1971, which would make him only 45 at the time of his death in August 2017. You are saying that is incorrect, right? —BarrelProof (talk) 19:59, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Right. If you notice the article was written on August 25, 2017. The picture of the gravestone was not submitted until December 16, 2017. Whoever wrote the article most likely obtained the birth date from another website rather than the actual gravestone.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.81.20.130 (talk) 07:41, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

A few points here:
 * What "most websites" say is immaterial. Lots of websites exist, many of them simply copying information they found... wherever. If one widely followed site gets it wrong, it is quite easy for other unreliable sources to copy the error. No help here.
 * The main page of https://twitter.com/5percenterlife, claiming to be his, says dob is May 5 (no year given). The account says it started in March, 2016, and ran for about 5 months, churning out an endless barrage of sexual bragging, dick jokes, love of Ben & Jerry's ice cream and homophobia. Several days included over 30 tweets, then there was a 3 month break before going silent in July 2016. However, his official website links to https://twitter.com/5percentnutri and does not give a dob. It is entirely focused on pushing product. I see nothing to indicate the first is official. No help here.
 * The instagram account "1dayumay" has this post, giving September 26 dob, no year. It's mostly personal photos. Instagram has the handle as verified. The verified account reliably supports September 26, XXXX.
 * Piana's official site links to https://www.instagram.com/5percentnutrition/, focused on selling product. Instagram does not have this one as verified. I see no indication of a dob.
 * Piana's official site links to https://www.facebook.com/pg/5percentnutrition/about/?ref=page_internal, focused on the product. I see no indication of a dob. No help here.
 * Piana's official site links to https://www.youtube.com/user/5PercentNutrition, focused on the product. I see no indication of a dob. No help here.
 * Findagrave.com is not a reliable source. Essentially, if a grave isn't claimed, ANYONE can become the master of that grave and enter information. If they get it wrong, there's really no way to correct it, other than that person fixing it. The page shows the tombstone, reading September 26, 1970. Inexplicably, the page associated with the photo says September 26, 1971. Though tombstones are sometimes incorrct for various reasons, I see no particular reason to doubt this one. Why does the text say 1971? Who knows. This supports September 26, 1970, but weakly.
 * has changed the dob to September 26, 1971, without explanation, also changing the age at death to 45. ALL sources stating an age at death agree on 46. TheMasterWikiEditor is also building up a list of warnings for unsourced/unexplained dob changes.

We have an uncontested, reliably sourced day and year of death and age at death. We have a reliably sourced day of birth. We do not have reliable sources for any other age or a direct statement of year of birth. Calculating the year of birth with the info we have gives us 1970. Anyone wishing to dispute this will need something more substantial than a claim of what "most websites" say. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 23:36, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a great description of the situation. I agree. The tombstone is the best source we currently have for the birth date. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Anonymous IP editors keep repeatedly changing the birth date and age at death over and over – either not providing any edit summary or just saying something like "Correction of birth year" without saying where they are getting the impression that the information in the article is incorrect. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:09, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There is a new tombstone photo here. The previous one was a temporary marker shown here. But the birth and death dates on the new permanent marker are the same. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:54, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Verification of bodybuilding competition results
I would have thought that the people who run these bodybuilding competitions would post their historical records on the web somewhere, but I have been unable to find them. The sourcing for Piana's competition records is weak. I have the impression that some sources are just repeating what they heard informally from Piana and his friends, and the exact nature of the events and the years of the events seem mixed up. The best source we seem to have for these is, but it appears incomplete. That site's record for Mr. California events stops in 1993, and for the relevant years it identifies only the overall winners. Piana is not listed in any of those Mr. California records. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:07, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Follow-up comment: Mr. Teen California in 1989 and Mr. California in 1998 are supported by the article in The Sun. Based on that, I changed the 2003 date for Mr. California to 1998: —BarrelProof (talk) 21:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Edit dispute
I removed highly specific autopsy details from the lead. Asartea reverted my edit without stating a reason. I have never seen a Wikipedia article with multiple sentences in a lead section regarding detailed autopsy findings. This material does not need to be in the lead section and can certainly be covered in the article body. The disputed language is as follows:


 * He had been aware that his organs were enlarged and that is a known side effect of the steroids, human growth hormone, insulin and other hormones he had been taking. There was also significant hardening of the arteries and plaque in his arteries (coronary atherosclerosis). He also had abnormally yellowish skin color, fatty liver, ascites (accumulation of protein-containing fluid in the abdomen), congested thyroid, congested and discolored kidneys, ischemic brain tissue (brain tissue that had lost blood supply), necrotic brain tissue and brain edema. Another abnormality was in his lungs, which were filled with yellow fluid and swollen (bronchopneumonia pleural effusion wih edema), had apparent fat emboli and micro-abscesses, and also displayed both acute and chronic inflammatory cells.

24.29.56.240 (talk) 15:33, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * On further consideration I Agree with 24.29.56.240 in this matter. My revert has been reverted.  Asartea   Talk  undefined  Contribs  15:38, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, '' Asartea . 24.29.56.240 (talk) 21:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)