Talk:Richard Burton/Archive 1

Voice
I put the sentence It was at this time that he began to develop the distinctive speaking voice that became his hallmark. in this article way back in August and it was meant to be associated with his supposed time at Oxford. It is now in the first paragraph and looks out of place. Mintguy 22:37 Dec 18, 2002 (UTC)


 * The Internet sources I perused said that too, and that it was why he left after only six months, that the faculty felt he was overshadowing Shakespeare's lines with his unique style, but you can check out Deb's reaction to that scenario at Talk:University of Oxford. -- isis 22:52 Dec 18, 2002 (UTC)


 * It's true, he may have picked up an "Oxford accent", but he had already had some coaching in "losing his Welsh accent" from Philip Burton, who, as well as a teacher of English, was a BBC radio producer. Deb —Preceding undated comment added 18:24, 19 December 2002 (UTC).

What makes you think Burton 'lost his Welsh accent' -- those beautifully rounded vowels are pure Welsh -- ask Bryn Terfel. Burton's official websites simply states Philip Burton encouraged him to speak more distinctly by walking further away and getting him to project his voice -- nothing about a change of accent for a man who had written into his contracts 'not to work on St David's Day'. Philip Burton is often describes as an English teacher, but was, in fact, a teacher of English. He, himself, the son of a miner, came from the heart of the South Wales vallies and for higher education moved no further than Univesity College, Cardiff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.3 (talk) 21:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's in quotes because it's what Philip Burton said he wanted him to do. But I agree he never quite lost it. Deb 17:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm the fags1 and the booze would have assisted in his voice change and I'm not sure he would have been quite so heavily into either at 16. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mintguy (talk • contribs) 23:35, 19 December 2002 (UTC)


 * I see. I must have misunderstood what you meant about his distinctive way of speaking! (Although I think he was probably already into fags and booze as a teenager.) Deb —Preceding undated comment added 18:51, 20 December 2002 (UTC).


 * Richard began smoking cigarettes when he was only eight years old and for most of his life smoked about sixty a day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.6 (talk) 22:52, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Knighthood
Imdb.com bio says he was a CBE. However, this is not a knighthood, is it? Thus he was never "Sir Richard". Incidentally he's not in the WP article with the list of recipients of the Order of the British Empire honours. Can someone who's up on the British honours system clear this up? Ellsworth 23:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You're right, he wasn't a knight. I think we've been here before.  It was the other Richard Burton who was a knight. Deb 16:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * So the paragraph in the article is correct. I'll put in that he was a CBE as imdb bio information is presumably reliable. Ellsworth 00:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Narrative gap
This article jumps from him being an air force cadet in WWII straight to, "In 1952, Burton successfully made the transition to a Hollywood star." I'm guessing he did some other acting in between, like on the stage or in English films. Golfcam 02:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


 * English films...English films????!!!??? I can't believe you said that! Deb 17:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Picture
The picture of him is not sastisfactory. It's too small. The last picture was a close-up and even that one was only decent. The picture's been changed twice over the past couple monthes. I reccomend the picture of him found on IMDB and then keep it that way.


 * A picture of Burton as Marcellus in "The Robe (1953), when he was 27, would be best because that film showed the actor at his most handsome.


 * I have to agree . It's poor quality. Does anybody have a problem with [http://imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1396/Mptv/1396/0406_0538.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Burton,%20Richard%20(I)


 * Good photo, can we get it uploaded, this article really needs a photo in its infobox Grunners (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Source question
I'd like to add a quote about Richard loving Elizabeth up until the day he died despite remarrying other women, but I can't find it online. I do, however, have it in a biography penned by Richard Burton's brother Graham Jenkins. What's the policy for book citations?

Maybe Jenkins made it up. He seemed to ignore every bad thing about his brother.


 * There's no problem with citing a book, especially when it's a primary source. It doesn't matter whether Graham Jenkins made it up - he's still in a better position to know whether it was said than 99.9% of people are. Deb 11:47, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

This is the same Graham who denied his brother's homosexual affairs, despite not being with him at the time.

Bisexual?
"Burton admitted to being bisexual in an interview, although his exact words could be viewed as merely an example of his wit."

What were his exact words? Why not let the reader decide how they could be viewed?

He said all actors drink to cover up their homosexuality, and that he was once actively gay as a young man. This was from a 1974 interview with Michael Parkinson. (InLikeErrol 16:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

This is an LGBT article. Burton admitted to having been actively bisexual: he didn't 'try it once and didn't like it', he chose to have many homo experiences, at a time when it was illegal. Most people are hetero, but many bisexuals claim that most people are bi. It would be very unlikely that Burton's quote about actors being homosexuals who cover it up with drink would be first said by a heterosexual. The fact he was an acor who was a very heavy drinker makes it virtually certain that he was including himself in the quote in question. Therefore he should be in bisexual and LGBT categories. Werdnawerdna (talk) 23:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Picture claimed to be in public domain
http://www.retrosellers.com/images/spywhocamein.jpg http://www.retrosellers.com/features97.htm (see note at bottom of page) Does anyone think this picture could be used for the main article? 81.184.56.76 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

"Hologram" of Burton
While Burton's voice was used in the stage production of War Of The Worlds, it is inaccurate to state that it was a hologram of him, or indeed a hologram at all. The process used was to film an actor synching his speech in Burton-like make-up, his head restrained to prevent excess movement, and this image projected upon a profiled 'sphere' that was essentially a head-shaped screen, the projection providing the detail of the eye and mouth movement while the screen allowed immobile features such as the nose to 'stand out' into the ostensibly 2D projection of detail. I think one term used was a "soligram" (possibly "solo-"), but it isn't strictly speaking a hologram of any kind.

(Incidentally, the decision was made to to make the image of Burton the younger and more visually iconic version of himself, even though matching against the more mature voice of the narrating Burton.)

Thinking about it, I should have checked that this information is not contained within the WotW stageplay article, but I feel that a correction should be made. Less verbose than the above, perhaps referencing an existing explanation, certainly adding 'quotes' to the term to show the looseness of the term.62.49.25.104 (talk) 15:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Latest additions
Some substantial additions were recently made, and some of the new content was very definitely not NPOV, even though it was referenced. I also amended the statement that Burton won first prize as a boy soprano at "the Eisteddfod". The phrase implies that this was the National Eisteddfod which I very much doubt. More probably it was a local eisteddfod or perhaps a local heat of the Urdd Youth Eisteddfod. If it was the National, everyone would have heard about it sooner. Maybe someone knows the facts behind this? Deb (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Warren Mitchell
Why is there noting about Warren Mitchell he helped him on his acting carrer.


 * So did lots of other people. Deb (talk) 19:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

No what I mean is in the RAF and Oxford. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.127.63 (talk) 18:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Burton and Churchill
There appears to be no evidence for the claim that Burton hated Churchill, or that Churchill claimed to wipe out all Japanese people. The only source that makes either claim makes them both together in one paragraph; that would be a book by Howard Zinn. I put a citation needed next to them, but I privately think it's all made up. 67.170.93.244 (talk) 09:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Read Burton's own words or Penny Junor's biography - the Communist-leaning Burton absolutely HATED the right-wing Churchill and regarded him as a war criminal. (92.11.132.0 (talk) 17:12, 14 November 2008 (UTC))

Name
Richard Burton was also a nineteenth-century British adventurer and eccentric, who first translated the Kama Sutra and, I believe, The Arabian Nights into English, thereby introducing them to the West. He is one of those obscure historical figures with a tremendous cult following even today. Should this be disambiguated for a potential new page? Danny —Preceding undated comment added 14:36, 1 August 2002 (UTC).
 * Absolutely should be disambiguated. He isn't an obscure figure at all!  Total wack job, sure, but he is the true discoverer of the sources of the Nile (Speke was a punk), did much to introduce the cultures of India, Africa, and the Middle East to the West. Disambiguate away and I will work on him. The actor is more obscure than he is at this point.  Ortolan88 —Preceding undated comment added 14:41, 1 August 2002 (UTC).
 * How should we distinguish them? Richard Burton (actor) and Richard Burton (whack job)? ;-) Danny —Preceding undated comment added 14:48, 1 August 2002 (UTC).

Either Richard Burton (author) or Richard Burton (adventurer) ought to do it; I'm leaning toward "author", as he's so well known for Arabian nights. --Ed Poor —Preceding undated comment added 15:01, 1 August 2002 (UTC).


 * I thought first of Richard Burton (explorer), but Richard Burton (orientalist) is best. The latter covers Arabian Nights, sneaking into Mecca, chasing the Nile, all in one.  After all, his tomb looks like a desert tent.  Ortolan88 16:09 Aug 1, 2002 (PDT)

Churchill
There is a good clip of Burton being interviewed by Michael Parkinson on the BBC I guess in the early 70s in which as his 'party piece' he gives a reading of Churchill's speech to the House of Commons on taking over as Prime Minister.

The Burton-Taylor Theatre in Oxford is named in his (and Liz's) honour. I think it had something to do with the production there of Faust but any idea if they made a cash contribution or endowment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.72.46 (talk) 10:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Conan 1997?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0545498/ ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.92.228.44 (talk) 11:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Adopted and part Jewish?
According to NNDB (http://www.nndb.com/people/260/000032164/) Burton was adopted and his maternal grandfather was Jewish. How reliable is NNDB? 87.194.226.202 (talk) 16:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The adoption question is already covered accurately in the article. Haven't heard the Jewish one before.  A lot of Welsh people have Jewish-sounding surnames, eg. Samuel, Isaac, for which the true explanation is religious-minded people taking Biblical surnames.  So far I haven't been able to find out Edith's maiden name. Deb (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The 2007 book The Hollywood Book of Extravagance: The Totally Infamous, Mostly lists his mother's name as Edith Maude Thomas (so does the 1992 book Richard Burton: a bio-bibliography‎). As for the Jewish thing, the 1981 book Richard Burton‎ (by Paul Ferris) states "His father was half Jewish". The 1991 book Richard Burton: so much, so little‎ (by Peter Stead), on page 129, notes the "the Jewish grandparent whom nobody ever mentions but of whom he was always later to boast" (thanks to Google Books for all this). But I could not find any more detail, or exactly how accurate those claims are. I remember seeing a detailed family tree of Burton online which didn't seem to show any recent Jewish ancestry, but I can't seem find it again to re-check. All Hallow&#39;s (talk) 02:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Imdb says he was partly Jewish as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.14.13 (talk) 16:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)