Talk:Richard Marcinko

Pre-Career
Is there any non-classified information about his life prior to the Navy? When his parents immigrated, his local community? School athletics, motivations for joining the service? 75.175.96.208 (talk) 18:26, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Career
There are so many errors in this it borders on fiction. I can not seem to sign in for some reason and am hesitant to make changes until I am able to do so. -- The way the it reads now, the reader would be led to believe he was promoted to Commander after Vietnam. Well, he was, much later in the 1980s. He was an ensign and Lt. jg in Vietnam. Red Cell is not a counter-terrorism unit nor has it ever been. They did not infiltrate Air Firce One, nor has any memeber of Red Cell ever claimed this that I am aware of (or that I can find in writing). --Team Six was not involved in any deployments or active missions while Marcinko was CO, only training. All the missions refered to happened after he left.138.32.32.44 10:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As for Red Cell and Air Force One - Marcinko himself (a member, right?) claims in Rogue Warrior (considered to be non-fiction) that his team was able to simulate an explosion next to the plane during a security exercise. 24.91.126.96 00:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

All but the first paragraph has been pilfered verbatim. A rewrite is in order. And by "pilfered verbatim," I believe this is copyrighted material. In addition, it kisses way too much butt and doesn't address corruption allegations. -Joseph 10:27, 2004 Aug 26 (UTC)
 * completely rewritten by User:Alkivar

More than allegations, he was convicted and served time in addition to paying a fine. I don't think I should personally add the details as I know him personally and despise him too much to maintain neutrality, but know that he was convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, making false claims against the government, and bribery. A Standard Form 180 (SF-180) submitted to NARA can help make this article complete. -keshiklabs 7:30, 2004 Oct 3
 * POV as all hell, I agree you should have 0 to do with this article, leave it to folks who can remain neutral.  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 05:51, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Gaping hole in story?
The man went to federal prison, how can this be overlooked? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.195.213.246 (talk • contribs) 22:45, 29 January 2005.
 * because there is minimal published information about his trial/sentancing/prison sentance. Find me a source that says more than "and Marcinko served X time in jail" and I'll be happy to put it in.  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 00:33, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * His biography talks about his 18 months in a federal pen, as well as mentioning that it was for misappropriation of funds. It also mentions that these charges were only brought up when more serious charges that would have carried a longer prison sentence were dismissed. While this account is Dick's and therefor could be biased, it has been publically expressed since the publish date of Rogue Warrior (at least 1993). I have not seen any credible accounts on the internet arguing against Dick's account. His prison time is an integral part of his "Rule Breaker" image, as well as being a significant milestone in his life. It should definately be included here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.80.63.244 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 23 September 2005.


 * You misunderstand my point... Yes I know Dick mentions this time served, yes he mentions why, but NO ONE ELSE DOES. You cannot simply reference the subjects own opinion for this, you need either a secondary "non biased" source or at least a link to a case log or something. Find me this and I'll write it in, in suitable form discussing the facts. You will note however that HIS CONVICTION IS MENTIONED! "whom he accuses of involvement in his subsquent conviction for misappropriation of funds and resources under his command."  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 00:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

The person below beat me to citing Cpt. Gormly's book, but the case was covered in multiple articles in the Washington Post (you may have heard of it?) at the time. Since you're volunteering to do the editing, I'll let you do the research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.77.67 (talk) 16:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The person above says that no one else mentions Richard Macinko's conviction, and time in Federal prison, I would suggest there is at least another source for Macinko's conviction:

Combat Swimmer - Memoirs of a Navy Seal by Captain Robert A. Gormly, USN (Ret.) ISBN 0-451-19302-4

Gormly, took charge of Team SIX after Richard Macinko, and was involved in the Naval Investigative Service investigation into Richard Macinko, and members of Team SIX, the investigation was referred to as "Iron Eagle" pages 244-260 of the book discuss the investigation. I am not sure it is against copyright to quote it verbatim as a source for further edits, if it is please delete:

"The Iron Eagle investigation finally came to an end late in 1989. With respect to SEAL Team Six, they found no command-sponsored corruption. Three men admitted to bringing one automatic weapon each back from Grenada (and not turning them in during my amnesty). Four other members of SEAL Team Six were charged with submitting false travel claims. One pled guilty and received a slap on the wrist. One was found not guilty at court-martial. After that charges against the others were dropped. Two non-SEAL petty officers I'd found cheating on travel claims before the NIS investigation were convicted at courts-martial in 1987. The Marcinko aspect of the investgations had different results. Dick and a civilian associate were charged with conspiring to defraud the Government of $50,000 while he headed the Red Cell. The case centered on the grenades, and other explosives that Dick had contracted to buy in 1984, ostensibly for Six, and his fledgling Red Cell. I was subpoenaed to testify that as commanding officer of Six at the time, I had neither requested, nor wanted the explosives. The Government alleged that Marcinko and the civilian, who manufactured the ordnance, were in collusion to charge twice the price it cost and split the profit. When Dick was charged, he had his lawyers request for his defense documents he knew were highly classified. They hoped the government would drop the charges rather than risk public exposure of classified information. This wasn't an an unusual tactic" [Page 255]

The reference to his conviction, and Federal jail time comes at the bottom of page 260, and comes with a bias, Gormly spoke in the chapter that Macinko had tried to "burn" him and get him removed from command of Six, so the rest of his quote should be considered non-NPOV opinion of the man:

"The trial ended with a conviction for the civilian and a hung-jury for Macinko. In 1990, however the U.S Attorney General retried him and got a conviction. Again, I had to testify. Marcinko served time in a federal prison. Dick had once been a good naval officer. When he became a convicted felon, he shamed the uniform he'd worn for many years. He discredited himself, the Navy, and SEAL Team Six in the process of trying to steal taxpayers' money. While Dick command Six, he created an aura of suspicion around the Team. The way he did business made many question his honesty. When his actions at OPNAV brought him under scrutiny again, his former associated with Six brought the command under scrutiny, too. Six became known within the upper echelons of the Navy as "the command under constant investigation" -- Dick Marcinko's legacy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.96.81.150 (talk • contribs) 21:09, 24 March 2006.

I have met Dick, and have also read his book. Even though it is listed as "non fiction", it is largely a work of fiction. There are events in it that either never happened, or were greatly exagerated. One of the things I noticed that he glossed over was his brief mention of the 1986 security test at Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station. In this drill, his team was stopped cold by the Marine Security Detachment. He was also arrested for the kidnapping and torture of a civilian employee (charges were dropped - but he was formally reprimanded by the Navy). He even made claims that Seal Beach was a "secret Nuclear Weapons Depot", even though all nukes were removed in 1983-84 (2 years before he conducted the security drill). And I know what happened during these drills, because I was there at the time. In one of the drills, I was the only friendly "casuality", and we "took out" 6 Det Six infiltrators. Hardly the type of thing he would want to brag about, since he makes himself and his team look so invincible on paper. And when he was court-martialed, he became the embarasment of the Navy, Marine Corps, and the Special operations community. If you want more prrof of the conviction, simply look in an old copy of the Navy Times. 72.161.217.83 16:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

PRISON: I would suggest 'witch-hunt' be replaced with 'retaliation' since those commanders already knew who the 'witch' was.50.10.99.70 (talk) 03:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Commission
How did he become an officer? One does not enlist in the Navy as a teletype operator, and then "work" up to the rank of Commander? I am not questioning that he got a commission, but how did it happen? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 08:17, 12 June 2006.

I will repeat his question above. Some do start as enlisted and work their way to officer ranks, but as selected based on enlisted experience and expertise. Their officer designators are such they are Limited Duty Officers or Warrant Officers, and also most often do NOT have a college degree. - It says he has a master's degree, which implies he has a proceeding bachelors degree - from where? When? OCS to me implies a degree- it is not OCS for those that are "Limited Duty Officers or Warrant Officers. He served time in jail, was that the result of a Court Martial or What? What form of discharge from Military Service did he receive? - With that information as guidance I would recommend a more recent picture without uniform as the main picture, his service jacket picture in uniform may remain but lower in article . Wfoj2 (talk)
 * He earned a B.A. in International Relations from the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California in 1972. He actually completed OCS in December of 1965 without a degree. He was reccomended by a Captain to become an officer under the Officer Integration Program earlier that year, the Navy used to take 50 enlisted men every year and make officer's out of them. He retired from the Navy in February 1989, as a retiree he was investigated by the Grand Jury. No court-martial, honorable Discharge. I have several pictures with him over the past 10 years, I'll see if I can crop myself out of one.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I see edit adding listing of a Bachelor's Degree. You list his year of OCS completion, and state a program that I can believe did exist for that era but no longer exists. However, I suspect the location/school of degrees are crossed. For the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, the degrees normally conferred by them are are Master's degrees. Under some conditions some students there receive a second bachelors, but to my understanding they do not accept students without a bachelors degree. I recommend picture without uniform. That is only my recommendation, I don't yet see a consensus from others or a must. Getting the bachelors degree after commission - probably on own show a lot of conviction and hard work in addition to that. Wfoj2 (talk) 02:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No sir, the schools are not crossed, unless the source crossed them, but I doubt it.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Marcinko joined the Navy as an enlisted person and was selected to attend Officer Candidate School (O.C.S.) OCS trains enlisted personnel in order for them to gain a commission as officers the Navy.  He did this after becoming a SEAL.  He also received a Master's degree.JEdward 01:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, he did this before becoming a SEAL, while he was still with UDT

All I have to add is the quote from the Wiki: "...While none of his stories are factually inaccurate..." this seems to be all that needs to said. All his stories are factually accurate. If none are inaccurate, then they must be accurate. If they are accurate, then he is what he says he is. If they are inaccurate, then he is not what he says he is.

um...what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wellcraft11 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Disgrace???
A statement like "Many former SEALs have stated publicly and privately that they consider Marcinko a disgrace." DEMANDS a citation. Especially with the use of the word "many". Additionally, if statements were made "privately", is there really a method of verification?


 * EDIT - This quote seems to have been removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.98.202 (talk) 07:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

More on citations
"Marcinko has come under criticism from many in the Special Operations community who feel that he airs too much dirty laundry"

Using "many" without a citation in this case needs a citation. At the very least, 1 or two people in this community should be quoted. The weasel words have to go if they are unsourced. Badfever 01:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

As a reader, might I also say that I do not understand what it means to "air too much dirty laundry". And I suspect I'm not the only one. I suggest finding another way of expressing whatever that means. -Confused Wiki Reader

Meaning he tells TOO MANY SECRETS. SpartanGlory1983 (talk) 05:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC) SpartanGlory1983

Awards
According to the Aug 22, 2006, SECNAV INSTRUCTION 1650.1H "NAVY AND MARINE CORPS AWARDS MANUAL", The United States Navy does not award Oak Leaf Clusters in lieu of second or subsequent awards for the Navy Marine Corps Commendation Medal, or for any personal Navy decoration for that matter. Oak Leak clusters are worn on the service and suspension ribbons of Defense, Army, and Air Force decorations and the Joint Meritorious Unit Award. For subsequent personal Naval decorations, gold stars are used for the 2nd through the 5th, 7th through l0th, 12th and so on. Silver stars are worn in lieu of multiples of five gold stars; i.e., the 6th, llth, etc.

In Richard Marcinko's case his military awards Navy Commendation Medal should read, "Navy Commendation Medal with one gold star."

Additionally, The awards cited under the military awards header should be listed in order of precedence, not according to date of issue or in any other fashion. This is a practice that denotes the seniority of a medal and its significance among other medals. According to this practice, this would make the new order become; Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Bronze Star with Valor Device and three oak leaf clusters, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal with one gold star, and Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star.

Lastly, Marcinko obviously has more medals and ribbons then those annotated under the "Military Awards" section; you can see at least 13 medals/ribbons and two devices in his photograph. Additional research should be completed that verifies what medals and ribbons he is authorized to wear with a citation denoting the source.

Bsdufault 20:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Excellent points, you're absolutely correct...I changed the order...I'm assuming a previous editor added oak leaf clusters, I can check the source material later. The infobox should only list major awards, but the entry on the page could list everything else.--Mike Searson 20:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

One more point that I completely missed, the Navy does not issue Oak Leaf Clusters for bronze stars either; however, the USAF and USA does. Instead, the Navy issues the same sequence of gold and silver stars in lieu of subsequent awards as mentioned above. The citation should read, "Bronze Star with Valor Device and three Gold Stars", (Gold Stars should be capitalized).

Bsdufault 21:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it. An Army guy must have put that in there! ;) SF --Mike Searson 21:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The opening paragraph was ridiculous
Seriously, I almost tagged it as "sounds like an advertisement." "...is one of the United States' most accomplished and recognized special operations experts, with over 30 years of experience in a variety of specialties including counter-terrorism, intelligence and special operations. He has a B.A. in International Relations from the U.S. Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, and an M.A. in Political Science from Auburn University." Is this someone's resume or an encyclopedia entry on him!?!? Marcinko deserves an entry, but not a platform on which to advertise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afabbro (talk • contribs) 18:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Good edit, but he was a sailor not a soldier. The criticism section needs to be documented as well. I've seen some of that criticism in print, SOF magazine from the early to mid 90's to be exact. I just don't know the exact issues or I'd put them in there.--Mike Searson 18:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Colloquialisms
It's a small point but, while I realize this is an article about an American subject, repeated use of informal terms and Americanisms such as 'stateside' seem a little inappropriate and colloquial, and perhaps confusing/unclear for international readers.

91.104.51.174 (talk) 14:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Awards and decorations
To reflect the style of prominent military-personnel articles (Audie Murphy, Matt Urban, etc), I propose to change the Military Awards section from:

Military awards

 * Special Warfare insignia
 * Naval Parachutist insignia
 * Silver Star
 * Legion of Merit
 * Bronze Star with Valor Device and three Gold Award Stars
 * Defense Meritorious Service Medal
 * Navy Commendation Medal with Valor device and Gold Award Star
 * Combat Action Ribbon with three Gold Award Stars
 * Presidential Unit Citation
 * Good Conduct Medal with Bronze Service Star
 * National Defense Service Medal
 * Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
 * Vietnam Service Medal with four campaign stars
 * Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star
 * Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal

to:

Awards and decorations
Thoughts, questions, complaints? Bullmoosebell (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The "Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal" is not in the graphic. There's only 12, not 13. - the WOLF  child  09:40, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

My edit: you make a good point about the Parachutist Badge. Perhaps a Master Parachutist? He was a jumpy fellow. Also surprising that a SEAL who trained his team with live fire in killhouses with teammates as hostages would not have Expert Pistol and Expert Rifle. Typical Wikipedia inaccuracy I suppose. But they got the Good Conduct medal right. That's a nice working class "Attaboy!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:152:497F:CA0:AC56:C47D:E01C:1EF1 (talk) 13:59, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Kudos to the Rogue Warrior
I'm a military mom! My uncles served in the Military, so did my brothers and my sons.

I found my first paperback at a Goodwill Store that Richard Marcinko wrote and loved it. I've acquired every book he has written except the newer one "Curse of the Infidel" (2014) and when I can afford it I will purchase it too. I'm going on 74 years old and I loved all the books Richard M. has written.

I've read through much of the articles on him and the verifications, critical remarks, fault findings and (carping). I can honestly say that it "hurts" to read so much criticisms against one man. "Who in GOD's Green Earth" made these people judge and jury! And why would someone be so crass as to research almost every incident/location mentioned in any of "The Rogue's" books. Some people actually know him and hate him...maybe because they weren't up to "par" to be in his Seal Teams or they were "politically motivated" to put "The Rogue" down. Just remember...you who scrutinized, probed and criticized....will meet at sometime in your future the "Real Judge" and I wonder what he will tell you, but most of all what will "other people say about you".

I wish I could hug this man (Richard Marcinko) because he is the kind of "warrior" I epitomize my military family members to have been. zaedison — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.167.213.153 (talk) 20:33, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Retired?
The opening paragraph states that Marcinko retired from the Navy.

He was dishonorably discharged after being tried and convicted in federal court on multiple offenses.

The language needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.113.192.12 (talk) 03:30, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Um, no. He retired before sentencing, he did not receive a DD. Nice try, though.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:29, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Died
He passed away today 2600:1014:B116:62AC:3C54:EF94:80F:5DE7 (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2021 (UTC)