Talk:Rickenbacker

Multiple Article Issues

 * I've taken the liberty of adding an Article issues template to the article's page: It really needs some inline citations and a good general cleanup. Also: I've rewritten the article on the 4001 model, and it really could use a picture. I figure someone out there must own one, and maybe they could take a picture for that article (it is one of the most famous models, after all). bwmcmaste (talk) 21:27, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've decided to adopt this page and completely rewrite it, as there's no been much done since over a year ago! After that pages for instrument series will be edited or added. ehamstra (talk) 16:26, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Rickenbacker Series'
-- Sofa jazz man 14:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There should be an article about each Rickenbacker guitar series.


 * I concur with your view that there should be an article on each Ric series. JSC ltd 18:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * What about the 2000 and 3000 series - most [are] discontinued

300 Series

 * I'm currently working on [300 series] an article dedicated to the Rickenbacker 300 Series.


 * I've been tweaking your articles so that they more closely conform to the conventions of WikiProject Guitarists and the Guitarist equipment task force, and I commend your effort in creating them. Keep it up!  Furthermore, you may be interested in joining said WikiProject by visiting its page and adding your name to the list.  JSC ltd 18:57, 23 February 2007 (U

By the way Harrison was first given a 330 12 string from Rickenbacker not a 360 12 string Nelson deCoteau
 * That is incorrect. Harrison received a double bound 360/12 - the second one made and the first to have the 'reverse' stringing setup. This is according to Richard Smith in his book on Rickenbacker, pgs. 68 - 80.THX1136 (talk) 18:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Product List
(Re: Notable, Current & Discontinued sections) The list on this page really goes into detail and I was thinking this would be better off as a separate page, loan behold there is one! So I think it would be a lot better to move that info over to the dedicated page rather than clogging up this page! Yellowxander (talk) 20:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Have fun ;-) Hotcop2 (talk) 01:12, 12 January 2012 (UTC)


 * ha, jebus that took a while, what a mess!! all moved over in code order! ;) Yellowxander (talk) 01:58, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Amplifiers

 * I believe Electro String/Rickenbacker built amplifiers for a span of 60 years give or take --Strawberry Pudding Wings

Luthiers &c
I think it's also worthy of note (somewhere) that the very first 12-string had the string-courses arranged the same way as other 12-string guitars, but thereafter they were reversed. similarly the 8-string bass.... I think there's room also for some mention of the origins of the "stereo" (splitting the pickups to two sockets) idea; was chris squire responsible for this or did he simply adapt it for his own purposes?
 * I've read this page several times over the last years, & it strikes me that it almost deliberately excludes any mention of the various luthiers responsible for the classic, distinctive designs; where is roger rossmeissl? where is there any mention of the cresting wave that made both the basses & guitars so easily recognisable from great distances, & which design john hall protects so jealously? are we allowed to go into more detail about the various knock-offs by ibanez, hondo, tokai et al, & how hall regards these things now?

Duncanrmi (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2009 (UTC)duncan
 * Going by what was included in Smith's book, Squire is not responsible for 'Rick-O-Sound'. This was a feature used mainly in the 'deluxe' instruments starting in the early to mid 60s. Also, one output is a 'mono' (TS jack) and the other is a 'stereo' (TRS jack). THX1136 (talk) 19:52, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Information that needs added to pre-existing areas

 * I'd like to see some information on the Rickenbacker 4080 doubleneck that Geddy Lee used in the 70's on this page. It came as both a bass/six-string model and a bass/twelve-string IIRC. --Insomniak 23:30, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing about 4004's? Only thing I can see in connection with it is the LK. Hairyhaw (talk) 17:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Colors & Body Finish

 * This section which talks about current colors, past colors, color of the year, and body finish in general, could use some more input. -- Strawberry Pudding Wings

Information that needs correction or deletion

 * Is the little tidbit about Gerry Marsden's guitar case really necessary? It seems to take away from the flow of the section.

The Rickenbacker brand bass guitar was originally patented by Adolf Rickenbacker. With "horse shoe" magnet pick ups, they were rather crude at first.'' There's a nugget of truth in there, but it has become terribly confused in the editing. Rickenbacker didn't make basses until the late 50s or 1960, but Adolph Rickenbacker had sold the company in 1953. Most of the (1930s) patents seem to be in the name of the engineer George Beauchamp, anyway. I'll get back to the pickup technology later. The article as it was this morning was very bass-centric. While the 4000 series is justly famous, the 330s and 360s are just as much part of the story, as are the early "frying pan" Hawaiians. More work is needed.
 * Hmm. I didn't realise what an old comment I was responding to. Anyway, some emergency surgery was required on this article...

--rbrwr

See: http://bartell.ronsound.com/ for more info on Paul Barth. He is also mentioned in the Wiki entry for the Acoustic Control Corporation who used his guitar designs for their "Black Widdow" line of guitars & basses. Paul Barth later founded the Bartell Guitar company of California in the mid/late '60's with Semi Mosley (sp?), who went on to form Mosrite Guitars. 192.77.161.22 (talk) 14:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)Ron LeSaar (Bartell fretless bass owner)
 * re: reference #7 for "Paul Barth" incorrectly links to Wiki entry for a 19 century politician, Paul C. Barth, not the Rickenbacker employee.

Major modifications needed that affect overall flow of article

 * I think something needs to be done about the way founding & early history is differentiated. I agree that founding & early history perhaps need to be seperated, but as of now the info in 'early history' (besides mention of the Adolf's name change) picks up from 50s while the earlier history (30s & 40s) lies within the founding area. I made an attempt to revamp this layout but the article was quickly restored by someone to it's original condition. I've accepted this and have added my amplifier information (there was still was no amp info) to founding history to keep things in linear order. The amps probably deserve their own category, just the same as the pickups, and yet it'd be hard to tell of the early history without mentioning that Electro String made them. To put it into better perspective I think the early history we have now is more of an area that loosely adjoins post-early history with pre-modern F.C. Hall history. I think it's a bit confusing not to regard the 1930s & 1940s era of the company as early history. After all it's approximately a twenty year span of time that we're not regarding as early history. Besides that point, I say there needs to be more information that explains the switch over of ownership to F.C. Hall and better explains the difference between the pre and post F.C. Hall era and better explains the relationship between F.C. Hall and Leo Fender. -- Strawberry Pudding Wings

Modifications made

 * I've expanded the article on the frying pan and added a link to it from this article. I also removed words to the effect that it is "considered by some" to be the first electric guitar. It is very well documented that the "frying pan" was the first electric guitar ever produced.  JSC ltd 17:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

General questions about the content of this article

 * Cliff Burton Picture; That's an Ibanez copy he's using on that picture isn't it ?


 * Nope, it's the real thing; I've looked it up on various sites, and Cliff even says that it's the real thing in an interview.

Disambiguation

 * Shouldn't this be under "Rickenbacker guitar", not just Rickenbacker?


 * There's no need to disambiguate unless (or until) there's something to disambiguate it from. --rbrwr

--Strawberry Pudding Wings
 * Well as I was saying above, they built & sold other things (amps) besides just guitars so it'd probably be best to leave the article as Rickenbacker. Anyways, the Rickenbacker we're talking about here, seems to be the most famous one, so if there needs to be a disambiguation, I still think this article should be the main one you're directed to if you were to just enter "Rickenbacker".

Colors
The colors section has four lists, which seems both redundant and a bit excessive. The information could easily be put into one listing of colors and years of availability. At most, we could have one list of current colors and one list of retired colors. I question the importance of listing this information in the first place (see WP:Listcruft). I'm going to pare it down unless someone gives a good reason. --emw 22:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I am the culprit. I made that section because I think people would like to know a bit about the history of Rickenbacker's colors. I suppose I tend to err on the side of more information rather then less. I agree the way I did it was really redundant, though. I see it has been changed now to a smaller section that features some pretty nifty looking graphs. Looks great! --Strawberry Pudding Wings


 * I added the graphs, which take up less space and conveys the information in a more intuitive manner. It was a gruelling effort and the colors might not be perfect, but that's the best I could do on short notice from the available list (see Web colors). If anyone thinks a different color is closer to the real thing feel free to tweak 'em. --Deon Steyn 06:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Interestingly, there's a 1958 catalog on RIC's website- and it appears that "Jetglo" and "Mapleglo" were not used that year. The caralog instead has "Black Diamond" and "Natural finish."  Also, Autumnglow and Fireglow were spelled that way, with a W.  Solicitr (talk) 20:07, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * good charts, but have moved it to the product list page, it would be more suitable there =) Yellowxander (talk) 01:59, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Content
Just for future reference, the third 12 string made was NOT a 660/12 but a 625/12 which Mike Campbell of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers purchased later. The first 660/12 was not made until 1989-ish as a Tom Petty signature edition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.151.244 (talk) 03:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As per Smith's Rick book (pub. 1987): "The company produced 3 different...electric 12 string guitars in 1963: two 360/12 guitars and one 625/12. Heartbreaker...Campbell owns the 1963 625/12. Tom Petty is holding it on the cover of...Damn the Torpedoes record album. It is one serial number away from George Harrison's December 1963 360/12..." The book also mentions that the first 360/12 was strung in the traditional manner - octave preceding main string going low to high. Harrison's was the first to be strung in the opposite manner after Hall made that change. Smith also states there was only one other 625/12 produced in the 63/64 time period. The implication of all this is the first, traditionally strung, 360/12 went unsold with Campbell and Harrison being the owners of the other two 12-strings that were first produced. Harrison's was presented to him by F.C. Hall during the Beatles first US visit. Campbell's was originally finished in Fireglo and then modified by someone outside of Rickenbacker - painted black and a 3rd pickup added. Smith's information was taken directly from Rickenbacker's own documentation to which he had unrestrained access when he was researching for the resultant book.
 * Also, there is no mention of a '660/12' model in Smith's book. He does mention that after the 1960's the model 625/12 became known as the 620/12 as no non-vibrato instrument had a '5' in it's model designation at that point. A similar thing happened with the 325/12 that Rickenbacker made for John Lennon. It's model designation was changed to 320/12 in a similar fashion. I'm guessing the 660 guitars are 'based' on the original 'crest of a wave' body style from the 1950s that was first used on the 4000 bass and are post 1987 manufactured - possibly 1989 as the above comment mentions. I realize this is way after the above comment, but wanted to add accurate info for future readers. THX1136 (talk) 20:27, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Rickenbacker links - unofficial page.
Hello, I have read the WP:EL policy more than once and I understand the fact that fansites generally should not be linked,

My question is - What about unofficial sites that contain vast amount of information that is not available in other places?

rickresource.com (the site I was trying to link to from the Rickenbacker guitars page) is currently the most comprehensive site for Rickenbacker guitars as well as it has the largest forum with participant of many Rickenbacker Luthiers and Rickenbacker officials. There is NO copyright violation anywhere on this site and every copyrighted material is used with a permission from RIC.

So, back to my question: Don't you think this is a bit bizarre that the most comprehensive Rickenbacker webpage is "banned" from the Rickenbacker article on Wikipedia? I have tried to resolve this dispute with the person who removed the links to no avail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:156.34.217.92 Thanks, GilbsonLP 11:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is the "vast amount of information" original research, and does it provide a source? If not, it shouldn't really be added. Jack ?! 04:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Some material is an original published research of Peter McCormack, Assistant Psychology professor at St. Thomas University (New Brunswick), some of it is contributed by others, most of which containing references to external sources, additionally - Rickresource offers a huge Rickenbacker register that provides statistical analysis of models/years/finish/etc... as well as stolen Rickenbackers database. GilbsonLP (talk) 11:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

A few more details:
 * Rickresource has the permission to use RIC trademarks (as you can see at the bottom of each page).
 * John Hall, RIC's CEO is participating in the forum: http://www.rickresource.com/forum/search.php?author_id=1456&sr=posts
 * Many other RIC Employees are participating in the forum: Kenny Howes http://www.rickresource.com/forum/search.php?author_id=177&sr=posts, Ben Hall http://www.rickresource.com/forum/search.php?author_id=390&sr=posts, Eric Behring (finishing supervisor) - http://www.rickresource.com/forum/search.php?author_id=611&sr=posts, Ben Hall's more "official user" - http://www.rickresource.com/forum/search.php?author_id=1456&sr=posts
 * Rickresource is not only a forum, it is a one stop huge resource for Rickenbacker, there is a huge register and gallery (the final gallery page is not yet published and still on the works, you can see a prototype @ http://www.rickresource.com/register/gallery.php), there are many other Rickenbacker related things in there. --GilbsonLP (talk) 20:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

First Electric ever made!
The Rickenbacker 12-string is the first Electric Guitar ever made, but I can't find it in the article!!!!! Here is a picture:

Can anyone fix this? Altenhofen (talk) 23:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, it was made in 1931. Altenhofen (talk) 00:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Never mind, the book I read about it in said the first solid body electric. Plus, I have found that the book also got the name wrong, the guitar is actually a Rickenbacker 360/12. Altenhofen (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * On second thought, this guitar was made 30 years before the Rickenbacker 360/12, plus this one has rounded sides, the 360/12 has flat sides.... Altenhofen (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That guitar pictured is a Rickenbacker 360/12 "New Style" which was introduced in 1964. It also looks like someone took out the stock pickup and replaced it. The old 360/12 had flat sides, but after 1964 (and still in current production) they started using rounded sides. Neither was this "first electric guitar." That was the rick frying pan slide guitar. 130.126.19.59 (talk) 16:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

it wasn't the first "solid-body" electric 12-string either. if you look closely at the picture, you can clearly see a hole in the body of the guitar.... :-)

Duncanrmi (talk)

Corrosion
The zinc coated screws are highly prone to rust and corrosion, this is an unfortunate design flaw with many Rickenbacker models. Many third party screw companies offer a complete set of replacement screws entirely made from stainless steel.--Jivesucka (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Notable Players
We need to establish some criteria for inclusion in the Ric players section of the article; it's already too long. I've just removed two names because, at the bare minimum, I think that the player (or the band the player is in) should be notable enough to have a Wikipedia article. Red link players in red link bands should be deleted. Again, this should be a bare minimum.

I think Roger McGuinn should be mentioned more than once on the list of "other people who may have picked up a Ric". The Byrds are basically known for McGuinn's picking up a Ric. Bayowolf (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

I would also argue that it's disingenuous (even if technically accurate) to include notable players who may have played a Ric on a couple of songs, but are primarily associated with other brands. Jimi Hendrix is the perfect example. He may have played a Ric at some point, but he's not known as a "Ric player." Strat, Flying V, SG, etc., etc. before Ric. --emw 18:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This article is looking more like a fan diary with the inclusion of everyone who's held a Ric. Since there is a page of NOTABLE Ric players, do we really need every name within the article as well?  As far as I can tell, John, Paul, George, Pete and Roger put Ric on the "pop map" so-to-speak and should be included in the main article.  I'm not sure Chris Squire even qualifies for the main page.  MOST of the rest should be relegated to the notable page.  Thoughts? Hotcop2 (talk) 17:28, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Nobody's responded to this yet. The article is loaded with red non-links to people nobody cares about.  Again, anyone on board to clear some of the names out of this article? Hotcop2 (talk) 19:30, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I did it a few days ago. Did I go far enough? -- Man way  13:57, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, looks much better. Hotcop2 (talk) 14:11, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Peter Hook
Regarding Peter Hook of Joy Division: Hooky *never* played an authentic Ric, but a lookalike copy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.12.183.162 (talk) 21:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Kurt Cobain
Thedarxide requested a source for "Even Kurt Cobain was said to have a lefty Rickenbacker 4001". I tried to find it, but the best i found was a couple of forums in Portuguese and Spanish:
 * http://forum.cifraclub.terra.com.br/forum/3/10361/
 * http://www.kdcobain.info/kurt-cobain/guitarras/

All the rest that i can google up is copied from Wikipedia. I am not mercilessly removing it, but a better source is needed. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Roger Rossmeisl
Why not a single mention of Roger Rossmeisl? He designed many of the modern Rics such as the 4000 series basses. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 14:34, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

agreed. this is unforgivable. see section above "luthiers &c".

Duncanrmi (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

bunch of stuff here: http://www.euroguitars.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96

but there ought to be a proper page for him in wikipedia, if this biographical & professional data can be verified & expanded upon.

Duncanrmi (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

removing McCartney photo
There is absolutely no reason to have two copies of the same Paul McCartney photo, so I'll be removing one of them. Elsquared (talk) 07:16, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Rickenbacher or Rickenbacker?
The article talks of a Mr Rickenbacher founding a company called Rickenbacker.

I was watching an episode of Hardcore Pawn and they had a very early slide guitar which had Rickenbacher on it.

An expert said that's how they used to spell the name of the company.

Anyone know if the company began as Rickenbacher?

Montalban (talk) 11:17, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * According to Smith's book on Rickenbacker, Adolph and much of his family 'Americanized' the spelling to match that of his distant cousin, Eddie Rickenbacker, who was a WW I flying ace. Smith opines that this was done in part to capitalize on his cousin's renown for the newly named instrument line that the Electro String Instrument Co. was building. Smith mentions the choice was made as it was easier to pronounce correctly compared to Beauchamp's (bee-cham) last name. Smith also notes that Adolph did not legally change the spelling. His last business card in the 1970's still had the original spelling. The company became Rickenbacker, Inc. in 1965. This was way after the 1953 sale of the company, ESIC, to F.C. Hall.THX1136 (talk) 20:56, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Most famous Rick bass player?
WRT to this:

The most famous person to use Rickenbacker basses is perhaps Motörhead vocalist/bassist, Ian "Lemmy" Kilmister

Lemmy is more famous than Paul McCartney? What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Not even "perhaps". MrRK (talk) 06:29, 10 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Very agreed. Hotcop2 (talk) 12:03, 10 May 2014 (UTC)


 * McCartney is likely far more notable than Lemmy, both as a guitarist and as a member of the Beatles, which in turn is a more notable musical group than Motörhead. – Matthew  - (talk) 15:42, 13 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The question is really who’s the most famous player OR who’s most famous for being a Rickenbacker bass player? McCartney fits the first, but not the second as he is more associated with the Hofner bass than Rick bass (it’s the one he’s seen with the most). The second question is harder to answer. Should it be Lemmy, Chris Squire, John Entwistle, Geddy Lee, etc.?THX1136 (talk) 00:21, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Copyright Violation?
§ Copyright Violation is about the company's actions to suppress, among other things, resale of used Rickenbackers. --Thnidu (talk) 00:00, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) How can that be described as a copyright violation? and
 * 2) How can such suppression even be legal?


 * It is my understanding that Rickenbacker aggressively acts to prevent the sale of counterfeit guitars that purport to be genuine Rickenbacker instruments. Perhaps you got the two issues mixed in your mind. Counterfeiting, I think you'd agree, is illegal. As you said, reselling a guitar by it's owner is not a violation of any copyright in the eyes of the law.THX1136 (talk) 18:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)