Talk:Rider (Fate/stay night)

More Cybele BlahBlah
I've added this bit to their description, please feel free to word it more properly: (It should be noted that even though this is the canon mechanic of the eyes, their power is not demonstrated in any of the Fate scenarios; moreoever, Heaven's Feel and Hollow Ataraxia both have pictures of Rider consistently not wearing her blinder or her glasses and yet not petrifying anyone, which hints that the eyes can in fact be controlled by Rider at will.)

The justification behind this is that in several cases, including some of the adult scenarios played out in Hollow Ataraxia, Rider can in fact control her eyes and not petrify people. Furthermore, when Rider is killed by Saber on the rooftop, there were several people in her range of vision, excluding Saber due to her high Mana score, but including Shirou, who should have been petrified but were not, as her blinder was destroyed right before she was and exposed her eyes for all to see.

There simply does not seem to be a coherent explanation for this other than Type-Moon suddenly deciding that Rider can in fact control her powers at will, despite the weapon's provided description.

Unless someone finds an excuse for this, I might suggest removing the part of the entry that says that the eyes will work on people even against Rider's will. (If you do remove that part, then do erase the bit I just added myself as well.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.83.146.151 (talk) 04:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The only justification that matters, sadly, is the official sources which stat what's in the article. Unless and until they give info saying otherwise, her eyes can't be shut off and she has no control outside of using the stated ways to prevent their effect. As an aside, when you feel the need to use a word like "hints" in an article, step back and try and find a way to phrase things that doesn't rely on personal interpretations of things. If you can't, it's best not to include what you were trying to say. Also, please add new topics to the bottom of a talk page, not the top. Newer information goes at the bottom, just as when commenting on already existing topics you add your comments to the bottom. And now that that's out of the way, welcome to the article, it's always nice when people take interest and want to help with it! I'd recommend making an account to make it easier for people to contact you, and also that you sign your comments with four ~ at the end. Enjoy your stay! ^_^ Nezu Chiza (talk) 17:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see the point of keeping the official description as it is if in the actual media it doesn't function as described at all. It's like if God came down and said the Moon was in fact made of cheese. It is not. At best, if that happened, the Moon's wiki page might be edited to say "According to God, the Moon is made of cheese." In this case, we'd be looking at "According to the official material, the eyes function in so and so manners." with a clear mention that in the games, animes and novels, they do not in fact demonstrate that functionality at all. I'm not trying to be a spoilsport or anything but at the very least the fact they DON'T work like described needs to be put somewhere. 70.83.146.151 (talk) 22:51, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Understanding
Try to make it easy to understand for someone who does not know anything about the series. Add some background info, etc. Alex&#32;&#40;t&#41; 23:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Cybele
Cybele is the proper name of the eyes, not the name of the imaginary element (ether) the retina are made of. Also, it has never been stated in the game that the imaginary element is what allows her eyes to work that way. Arai 21:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * O.K. Terek 08:26, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Once again, the correct name is Cybele as in the Phrygian goddess of earth. The name Qubeley is a distortion made by the M.S.Gundam crew years ago simply because Japanese are not quite as good at romanizing names. As for why you get more hits with Qubeley than Cybele: It's a Gundam. And a relevant one in the story at that. OF COURSE it will have a buttload of results. Ephyon 12:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Japanese source still has it as Qubeley, whether it's a distortion or not. Unless they release an official ENGLISH source that changes it to Cybele, you go with the original source. In addition, please don't assume I can't tell hits for Fate from hits for Gundam. You obviously failed to check google hits yourself or you'd have figured out why I said SIX HITS FOR QUBELEY. Thanks for your time. Nezu Chiza 08:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Japanese Wikipedia has `キュベレイ' (Kyuberii) rather than `Qubeley' (which is presumably how TYPE-MOON had it in the game) and link to the Japanese article for Cybele. Since the noble phantasms tend to relate to real-world things, it seems pretty obvious what it is supposed to be. Elric of Grans 05:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Japanese source still has it as Quebeley huh. Uh. Dude. What language is the Japanese source in? Japanese. There are different rules of transliterations for any language. "Qubeley" isn't one that's ever been recognized as "standard" using the alphabet for the goddess; and even there's three main alternatives; Cybele or Kybele or Kubele (followed with pronunciation differences according to how different speakers interpret each syllable). I don't recall there ever being any official TM source that's had it in plain out romaj ala QUBELEY. Unless it's some imaginary source work. Arai 09:49, 16 December 2006


 * Using the logic that something SHOULD be a certain way is a slippery slope, really. After all, Arturia is Saber's "real name", and she's supposed to be Arthur. Should we change her entry to say her name is Arthur Pendragon then? Just demonstrating how, despite being based in the "real world", you can't automatically say it's "obvious" how things should be. But all we need is one verifiable official source for Cybele and I'm all for changing it. Elric of Grans has the closest to one so far, so I can see it being switched to Cybele perhaps. Dude. Nezu Chiza 13:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Gee, and I guess we should change Angra Mainyu to Anri Mayu. That's what we'd get going by the kana. Arai 13:56, 16 December 2006

Rider's eyes aren't named Qubeley. Why would her eyes be named after a mobile suit? The name is derived from the earth goddess (well at least going by our version of legends), Cybele/Kybele. Source here. I personally cannot confirm it but maybe one of you can. NobleServent2 05:01, 15 January 2007


 * The guy who wrote that is Arai, the one whose post is right above yours. Ephyon 05:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

To avoid confusion with Breaker Gorgon, Rider's Mystic Eyes should have their own entry under that one. This also allows the article to give some details on how Rider's petrification gaze works, which the article currently does not. Breaker Gorgon should have a picture of Rider wearing her blinder, and the Mystic Eyes entry could work with the current picture. - Sunder the Gold 22:40, 19 June 2007
 * I temporarily reversed your edits to avoid confusion (Not counted as an NP) and because its practically copy pasted from Arai's wiki. It's not a removal, I'll just reword it later tomorrow to make it fit better. Ephyon 02:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. I DID do some minor sentence restructuring so it wouldn't be a total copy-paste, but I admit that it was half-assed. But on the subject of separating things, shouldn't Bellepheron and Pegasus be separate items, too? Especially as Pegasus isn't an NP either. And is it true that Bellepheron can be used only on Pegasus, not any other beast? - Sunder the Gold 02:47, 20 June 2007


 * Well, Pegasus will likely always be used along with the bridle and saddle, so just mentioning that Bellerophon is the NP and that Pegasus is a summoned beast should do... actually, I should also reword that a bit to make it clearer. As for whether it can be used with another beast... I don't think anyone's ever asked that, or at the very least I've never seen it/can't remember seeing it. Maybe, maybe not. Ephyon 03:22, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Bellorephon
Someone please clarify this piece of information. The name of her Noble Phantasm is Bellorephon. However, I'm not sure if the Noble Phantasm itself is the attack or Pegasus. I believe Pegasus is her Noble Phantasm and the name of her Noble Phantasm attack is Bellorephon. This might be a bit confusing, so I will refer to my sources later to confirm. If someone else can confirm before me, that would be great! Mirioki 22:03, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm doing a small revamping of the Noble Phantasm information, and hopefully clarified your question: While the creature is called Pegasus, the Noble Phantasm's name is Bellerophon. Just like Gilgamesh uses heaps of different weapons for his Gate of Babylon, the attack and the tool (Or creature) do not necessarily share a name.Ephyon 01:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Adding on to this, Bellerphon is the name of the bridle the shes uses on Pegasus as well as the attack.Erithis 08:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * All three of you have spelled this word differently. Combined with Bellepheron by Sunder in the above thread, could someone please tell me how this is properly spelled? We have at least four options to choose from here. Tyciol (talk) 15:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

New image
Added a non-spoilery image for Rider on top. Sad to say, it's hard trying to find non-hentai images of her out there on the Interweb. ^_^;;;--み使い Mitsukai 20:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not that those are bad when viewed properly 68.107.147.41 15:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:FSN RIDER.jpg
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 * FIXED. Fox816 (talk) 21:00, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rider1337.jpg
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 * FIXED. Fox816 (talk) 06:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for Image:RiderBloodFortAndromeda.jpg
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