Talk:Riderless horse

is this a custom in the U.S. only, or is the exclusive focus on American riderless horses simply an artifact of systemic bias? &#8212;Charles P._ (Mirv) 07:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Is it a custom that was revived in the 20th century, or does it have a continuous history? 213.122.8.152 (talk) 14:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Not sure. Perhaps the author doesn't know either and is waiting for someone to put an addendum on. Maybe he's not familiar with other cultures, and doesn't want to sound like a arrogant prick by making something. I don't know; is this a custom in the U.S. only? Do some research. Grahamdubya 02:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

is it true that the horse can never be rode by a person again? Atrades (talk) 09:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe that horses used in such ceremonies are pressed into service for the event in question, but then generally ridden again, though there may be certain circumstances, such as a horse owned by the deceased, where the animal may be retired from general use. I don't know if there are special traditions for riderless horses used for particularly special events or not... and, sadly, I am not one of the people with the time (nor sufficient motivation) to to this particular bit of research, though it is an interesting question.   Montanabw (talk) 04:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Sardar
We have a problem with the section called Sardar. The preponderance of reliable sources, including US military sites and the JFK Presidential Library and Museum, confirm that the US Army horse Black Jack (horse) was the riderless horse used during JFK's funeral. So what do we do? - Josette (talk) 18:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree. Coverage of the horse Sardar is appropriate over at Jackie's article. There seems little reason to believe that the army and library have this point wrong. Cheers, Jack Merridew 18:28, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In addition, the material the redlink keeps posting is lifted verbatim from the History Channel article, hence it's a copyright violation. So it's not acceptable even if it were true. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:43, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact, the one redlink has been blocked for 12 hours, which is a start. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:45, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw that. This all seems an old bit of rumor from '63 that's never quite gone away, hence History channel getting it wrong. They should stick to what they know best. Cheers, Jack Merridew 19:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually Sardar was Jaqueline Kennedy's horse which was used in JFK's funeral service. His nickname was also Black-Jack.  See links:  Let's not incorrectly rewrite history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.105.157.190 (talk • contribs)
 * The other sources say otherwise. You would appear to be evading a block for pasting that (incorrect) copyvio. Bzzzt. Jack Merridew 20:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's only a 12-hour block, else I would turn in the IP for obvious block evasion. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There does not seem to be any reliable evidence, other then one website, that Jackie Kennedy nicknamed her horse "Black Jack". And the name "Black Jack" is not used in reference to a horse in her memoirs, as the website claims, but as a reference to her father and grandfather. Sardar is listed as one of her pets here, no mention of the nickname "Black Jack". - Josette (talk) 20:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Please see  Do you have some vested interest in this being your "black jack" or does it bother you that the horse is Pakistani? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.105.157.190 (talk • contribs)  — 24.105.157.190 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Strike that bogus accusation or I'll rethink my decision not to report you for block evasion. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:25, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and reported him, as well as his other IP and his registed user. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:31, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Strange argument here. What are you talking about block evasion & baseball bugs carrots? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.105.157.190 (talk • contribs)  — 24.105.157.190 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I found this information from page 490 of the book Four days in November: the original coverage of the John F. Kennedy assassination by Robert B. Semple. 


 * "But perhaps the most poignant touch of all was the sight of the huge steed, not quite black, more of a dark chestnut, spiritedly trailing the horsedrawn artillery caisson and it's coffin of the deceased president. For awhile this afternoon there was a report, confirmed by the White House, that the horse was Sardar, a bay gelding that Mrs. John F. Kennedy received as a gift from President Ayub Khan of Pakistan during a visit to that country last year.


 * The report turned out to be incorrect and was subsequently attributed to the confusion during the last few days, particularly since Mrs. Kennedy had personally ordered several changes in official plans.


 * In any event that big, prancing horse has been the No. 1 animal at Fort Myer stables ever since he was delivered in 1953 after breaking-in and training at Fort Reno, Okla. He has maintained that standing for a decade among 14 grays and 15 blacks that are normally kept at Fort Myer for ceremonial occasions. His role as the caparisoned, or "covered", horse in today's funeral procession..."

I think this pretty clearly explains the confusion. - Josette (talk) 21:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

There is also this Southeast Missourian news article from Nov 26 1963 which says the same, that initial reports from the White House claimed it was Sardar, but they were later revised. 70.112.123.77 (talk) 16:02, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Hamilton
The last edit, i.e., deletion of two items, as "toned down hyperbole," removed important and interesting material —e.g., 1) reason for Hamilton to be extended that honor, and 2) details of riderless horse funeral that should have been left in the entry. In fact, the entry is deficient in not containing a complete account of that type of funeral. And If the quotation was too long, that is a different thing that should be explained as such in the edit summary! If in need of correcting something, the poor grammar in this Talk Page, would be quite appropriate! For example, "is it true that the horse can never be rode by a person again?", the lack of titles in the first two items, etc.LeBassRobespierre (talk) 18:17, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * We don't need to go into details about every famous person's funeral that ever had a riderless horse escort. And raving about how famous Hamilton was (as opposed to Lincoln, Kennedy, etc.) is rather WP:UNDUE.  This is an article about the horses, not state funerals in general.   Montanabw (talk)  07:11, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * This article is internally inconsistent. If the honor of a boots-backwards horse goes only to officers equivalent to the Army's Colonels and above, and to the Secretaries of the Services (when existing), Secretary of War (when existing), Secretary of Defense (when existing) and President of the United States, then Alexander Hamilton didn't get the boots-backwards horse by being an ex-Secretary of the Treasury. That's Wikipedia's own text contradicting its own text. If Hamilton DID get a boots-backwards horse, it seems likely that the only way he could have qualified for it is by being Major General in the Quasi-War. I could not find where Hamilton ranked higher than Lt. Colonel in the Revolution, and that wouldn't qualify under Wikipedia's own statement of the rule. Alternatively, your text stating the honor to be reserved for Colonels and above in the military command could be wrong. SOMETHING is wrong: either Hamilton couldn't have gotten the boots-backwards horse, OR he got this honor without meeting the conditions of the rule, or your statement of the rule is wrong and an ex-Secretary of the Treasury gets this honor, or the correct explanation of this honor to Hamilton is NOT his cabinet-rank as you state but his military-rank in the Quasi-War as you omit. SOMETHING needs correcting, I just don't know what. But please, just beat me down as you always do when (a) I find two statements that contradict each other but (b) don't have a source that asserts that one or both halves of the conjoined contradiction are wrong. You just can't impeach Wikipedia for being internally inconsistent and get away with it.2604:2000:C6AA:B400:91C:8837:FFB4:48F9 (talk) 07:39, 27 August 2015 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Montanabw (talk) 03:03, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

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"Loose horse" listed at Redirects for discussion
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