Talk:River Taff/Archive 1

Placenames
Could we add a section outlining some of the placenames which are based on the Taff/Taf, for example 'Llandaf, Caerdydd (Cardiff) (from Caerdyf - fort on the Taff)? I also think that we could include some of the more local names (i.e. non-town names such as Blackweir which is the name of an old farm,a now a family home, on the outskirts of Coopers Field. It is also used to describe the area around the 'blachweir' on the Taff.EoinBach (talk) 00:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Taffy as Nickname
Chambers Dictionary derives "Taffy" from Dafydd, the Welsh form of David. --Keith Edkins 21:15, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I strongly doubt that was the case. 195.92.194.12
 * I always thought that the river was the origin of the term. Would the addition of the word 'possibly' solve this arguement? --Moochocoogle 04:31, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It would be very unlikely that the nickname comes from the Taff - it was already in use in Elizabethan times and Cardiff didn't exist as a signifcant place in Wales until well in to the 1800s and even Llandaff would not have seemed particularly significant as a Welsh place, certainly not enough to provide a nickname. It is possible that it might be to do with the Taf that is further west, but of the many theories about this the river in Cardiff is an unlikely source.

I feel that the whole section on Taff as Nickname is just unhelpful as well as probably wrong. I have worked in Cardiff for some time now and I have never heard 'Taffy' used to mean *just* people from Cardiff, as stated here. Indeed, if you think of the Scottish poem 'Taffy was a Welshman and Taffy was a thief' (cheers Scots), it is nothing to do with Cardiff specifically. Also, again, consider that Cardiff is a very recent development and it is unlikely to have been applied to the city. Furthermore, I have worked with young people in Cardiff for some years and they have often used 'Taffy' to refer to everyone else in Wales and in a derogatory sense. I think that this is a development of the use of the word and is peculiar to Cardiff, however you are going to tell me that I have no source for this other than my experience!

Personally, I would prefer to delete the section or simply say that one of the possible explanations of the nickname for Welsh people (not exclusively from Cardiff) is to do with the river but this is unlikely given that Cardiff is a very recent development and the nickname predates it by centuries.

DewiDewiMR (talk) 18:22, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Information
I've just measured the length of the Taff on an Ordnance Survey map to be 52.6Km from Pontsticill Reservoir to the river feeding into Cardiff Bay, however, I figured a fact like that would need a credible source, which I dont have... So I just added it here --Skipper is (talk) 07:33, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Lengths of irregular features depend on the resolution they were measured at. See Coastline paradox hrf (talk) 15:18, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Second diversion in Cardiff
The Taff was diverted for a second time in Cardiff sometime after 1937, to the north of Clarence Road bridge. The change is shown here, which compares the 1889 OS map with a modern aerial view. This 1937 aerial photograph has the old alignment. Can we get a source and a date? Verbcatcher (talk) 23:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Taffy deletion
Whilst I am loathed to make this talk page more about the exononym than the actual river, I was a little surprised to see the following sentence deleted:

It was common for people in times of war to dehumanise an enemy by ascribing a singular name to them all.

I get that the term Taffy is no longer used in a war setting, but should that impact on reporting it's origins? I have also linked a reputable literary source on the Paddy/Jock/Taffy development in warfare. If the issue is with the use of a singular name; Tommy, Gerry, Ivan, Charlie and Tojo are all well known examples of dehumanization.

I can not think of any other reason it should not be included here, but happy to discuss, Cymrogogoch (talk) 10:07, 30 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I deleted the sentence here with the edit summary "Not principally a wartime usage, no source for use by wartime opponents". I know that English soldiers called Welsh soldiers 'Taffies' WWI and WWII, we need a source to confirm that soldiers in enemy armies used this term.


 * The citation you restored is archived here, and does not mention Paddy, Jock or Taffy. It says:
 * The idea that our boys are going into the Middle East calling the locals ‘rag-heads’ is not nice. But there is also the old military dilemma underlying this. If you want young men to go out and kill other people (which I certainly don’t), then you probably do have to encourage them to dehumanise the enemy in just this way.
 * This is is an inadequate a source for the restored text. The use of a description like 'rag-heads' is more dehumanising than one based on a personal or geographic name. In addition, the source is a blog posting by Mary Beard, who is not an expert in this field. Please justify the retention of this text. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Afon Taf or Afon Tâf?
Should the Welsh name of the river have a circumflex: Afon Tâf? This is supported by the homepage of Afon Tâf High School in Merthyr. However the Welsh language Wicipedia article is Afon Taf (Caerdydd). The same issue may apply to River Taf in Carmarthenshire, where the Welsh language article (cy:Afon Taf (Sir Gaerfyrddin)) is titled Afon Taf but prefers Afon Tâf in the text. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:32, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The trend in Welsh has been to avoid the circumflex.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:05, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Nickname trouble
The derogatory term "Taffy" for a Welsh person...
 * It is no more derogatory than Jock or Paddy. The only Welsh person in a group is always liable to be called Taffy, without any derogatory meaning. A nickname is usually a signal of cheerful acceptance or even welcome. Touch of POV here, I think. Valetude (talk) 21:42, 27 March 2020 (UTC)