Talk:Riverina/Archive 2

Origin of name
I have to go just when the detective work was getting exciting. There is a connection between Dunmore Lang that I haven't unravelled - why was he coining names for the region from an Argentinian province - I don't hink he had been to Argentina. If anyone has time may be there are some clues in this book review and of course the books themselves--Golden Wattle talk 05:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I found this a while ago but couldn't find a way to integrate it into the article until now. Not really about the name but fits in with the discussion on Riverina separation in the review.--Mattinbgn 06:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Another source in the Australian Dictionary of Biography here and here on the Riverine Association.

From here
I think we have all done some good work but where does the article go from here? I notice it is still rated Start class, what is the process for having it reassessed? Is there anything else that stands out as lacking? I think I am getting to the stage with it where I can't see the forest for the trees and would appreciate the thoughts of others. Thanks--Mattinbgn/talk 07:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt at my analysis that this is still a Start class article but of course I may be biased. I note that you can ask for assessment at this site WikiProject Australia/Assessment - perhaps that is the next step Matt? -- VS  talk...images 07:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. I have put it up for assessment, let's see what happens.--Mattinbgn/talk 08:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Pleasure. Thanks also for putting up a talk link on your sig. It makes things a little easier. -- VS talk...images 08:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There should be a clear mention of defence in the Riverina. I know they are very much localised around Wagga, but Forest Hill isn't really Wagga and neither is Kapooka. I think both of them have as much impact on economy as CSU does.Garrie 21:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Football - VFL
I noticed at Mirrool, New South Wales the comment in the article that The town also has a football oval - and interestingly given how far north Mirrool is in New South Wales the style of football played in the town is Australian Rules. I think this interesting fact is generic to the Riverina. The boundary for what used to be called VFL was Wagga. This is my "common knowledge" from what I have been told. Do others agree? Can we source?--Golden Wattle talk 23:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There are (fairly poor) sources on the Barassi Line, the imaginary line dividing Australian Rules from League


 * Corowa Federation Bridge
 * Radio National discussion of differnces in sport in NSW and Vic
 * Blog message


 * A quote from the last one:

Yes, Tony, I am a Victorian, and I understand that my view is Victorian- (or perhaps Southern State-) centric. I’m also aware of how the AFL has made its marketing pitch (to the heathen States)in terms of what I continue to regard as a misnomer. However, I recall seeing a wonderful confirmation of my prejudice on a bumper sticker on a truck in the grounds of the Uni of NSW circa 1974. “Be Australian Play Aussie Rules”. There was no comparable sticker visible south of the Barassi line (immortalised by Ian Turner, as a geographic boundary running through the Riverina, just north of Wagga Wagga, through the ACT etc.)


 * Still looking for a concrete source.--Mattinbgn/talk 01:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a wikipedia article Australian rules football in New South Wales with a section on the Riverina - that section lacks in-line citations though. WikiProject AFL may be able to help.--Golden Wattle talk 20:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The Barassi Line comes up in a few google hits. There is a book review:  of. Perhaps somebody can check out the book which discusses the Barassi Line. The book is also referenced in an advert.

There is an essay that also discusses the Barassi Line in relation to soccer but you need access to a subscription to view it if you don't get it from another source - maybe someone with access to a uni library can help.

Actually, I suspect the Barassi Line needs its own article (with references) and then the wikipedia will have gathered together some knowledge authoritatively which would be useful :-) The line has been mentioned in various sports blogs and newspaper articles. Hence I have created the redlink and may work on it if somebody else doesn't beat me to it.--Golden Wattle  talk 21:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Article created--Golden Wattle talk 22:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Regional variation in the Riverina
While on regional differences, this isn't to do with football, but may further indicate the Riverina's position as a transition zone between Melb and Syd. This is a dead link I found at Australian English phonology but there must be other information available on regional pronunciation and vocab differences.
 * Cox, F. M. and Palethorpe, S. The border effect: Vowel differences across the NSW–Victorian Border Proceedings of the 2003 Conference of the Australian Linguistic Society 2003 p1–14.

The best known vocab difference I know between the Riverina and the rest of NSW is that you can ask for a pot of beer at a pub in towns like Jerilderie, Deniliquin and Oaklands and not be greeted with a puzzled look.--Mattinbgn/talk 21:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

German settlement in the Riverina
A better source than the existing one to integrate into the article. --Mattinbgn/talk 00:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps move the german settlement from history where it sits fairly uncomfortably and move to the culture section when it is written.-Mattinbgn/talk 21:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Culture section

 * Scots of the Riverina
 * Joseph Furphy
 * John O'Brien
 * Tom Roberts --Mattinbgn/talk 02:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mattinbgn (talk • contribs) 12:22, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Category:Riverina
I have created Category:Riverina--Golden Wattle talk 22:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Images can be categorised on commons under subcats of commons:Category:Towns of the Riverina, New South Wales, for example commons:Category:Hotels in the Riverina--Golden Wattle talk 00:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Moulamein
I don't like the oldest town claim for Moulamein. VS's Edit asserts a creditable reference through the GNB. I have my doubts about the local Shire Council site and suspect even the GNB may have been tainted by sources back to this. Maybe it depends how one defines a town. Effectively they are saying 2001 - 150 years - ie 1851 but claims further back to the 1830s. They claim police records back to 1845. Gundagai, New South Wales was established 1838 and gazetted as such. Moulamein, New South Wales was gazetted as a town in 1851. Read the Moulamein article history section for more on dispute of claim. Gundagai's establishment and gazettal was logical given the geography and history - why would Moulamein be established earlier than anywhere else?--Golden Wattle talk 00:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The claim on the website is possibly small town civic boosterism. The only reason I can see why, and it is speculation only, Moulamein would have been established earlier is that prior to the road and rail system, rivers were the highway.  Perhaps Moulamein was established informally by the squatters as a point on the river system reasonably close to the confluences of the Murray, Murrumbidgee, Billabong, Edward, Wakool and even Lachlan where small boats could drop off and pick up supplies.  Either way, it may need a better source than the Council website. Perhaps WP:AUSTHIST can help find a credible source one way or the other--Mattinbgn/talk 01:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Federation
I included federation in with Bushrangers, not for any logical purpose but so that the bushranging section wasn't so much of an orphan (plus I thought the alliteration in the heading was pretty neat :-)) I think there is a bit to add on the Riverina's role in federation in terms of inter colonial tarriffs and restrictions to trade and the leading role of Riverina communities, in particular Corowa in bringing federation about. The consequences of federation can be seen today with the fed. govt wanting control of the Murray-Darling, the Riverina's lifeblood.

Some sources I have found: --Mattinbgn/talk 00:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Heritage NSW
 * Treasurer's speech at Corowa in 2001
 * National Archives - Edmund Barton
 * Role of the ANA
 * no issues with the alliteration but the heading served to connect two disparate themes - good development since anyway--Golden Wattle talk 09:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Samuel McCaughey
Samuel McCaughey, irrigation pioneer, need to tie into article.--Mattinbgn/talk 11:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Riverina
Any interest? Anything to be gained?--Mattinbgn/talk 11:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess what is to be gained is allowing this talk page to comment just on the article. The article is becoming pretty lengthy and I can see breakout articles becoming desirable.  Plus such discussions that are now on the Template page (and have been on user talk pages) could belong on the wikiproject page. I would support such a move with the caveat it depends how much more you see to do or perhaps more accurately wish to do.--Golden Wattle  talk 20:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not against the idea however I support the emphasis of Golden Wattle's caveat question - How much more do we wish to do? In terms of gaining anything significant - would a project exponentially increase editor interest beyond the current core group?-- VS  talk...images 21:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. I guess I should add my thoughts. I don't particularly want to create a WikiProject if the work exceeds any benefit, nor do I think it is likely to generate any outside editor interest.    My thoughts were along the lines of Golden Wattle.  At present we have various discussions, links, templates, commons pages etc. in various places and I think it may be useful to have all that information in one place, easily accessible by all, including new editors with an interest in working on articles on the region.  Whether this is a project page or if a modified user page is suitable I don't know.  In addition, rather than messages back and forward between the "group's" user talk pages, a project talk page would be easier to post to and importantly easier to read.


 * With other tasks, I see the collection of photos from the Riverina continuing.  I intend to work on the larger towns of the Riverina to build them up to a standard similar to the Hay, New South Wales article.  To that end I am willing to work with any editors willing to help.


 * With this article, I think once the culture section is done, the article is basically complete and further expansion should be in breakout articles. When complete, I would like to submit it for GA status and see how we go.  Your thoughts?--Mattinbgn/talk 02:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't fault the suggestion that thoughts on this project are actually collected on one page - certainly that was/is my plan in terms of the talk page on the Riverina template. I also think The Riverina article is close to being a complete stage.  I will be happy to help with the standard raising of the larger town articles also (once I get the last of the redlinks on the template done). -- VS  talk...images 09:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Finished?
While there is more that could be added, I think at this stage the article is complete in terms of content. Expansion should probably be in breakout articles. Of course, other editors are sure to have ways to improve the article. As stated above I would like to submit for assessment for WP:GA status at this stage.--Mattinbgn/talk 10:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I support your submission to WP:GA. -- VS talk...images 11:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * As you can see, now nominated for GA status. Let's see how we go :-) --Mattinbgn/talk 23:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)