Talk:Riya Sen

Gossip
I think I've figured out why the statements about Riya being sexy, and controversial like her mother, etc. are bothering me so much. They are presented as the judgment of WP about her, personally. (And they seem to reflect a negative assessment of her as a bad girl in Indian terms.) But no references can "prove" that that judgments about a person are correct. I could cite one publication to "prove" that George W. Bush is the best president ever, and another to "prove" that he's the worst.

A section on Riya Sen's image in Indian media might work. That could be established with quotes from the works you guys keep citing. If we say, "X in Stardust magazine says ZZZ", then it is true that X said that. But, it doesn't imply that X is telling the truth.

As for all the stuff about who she's dating ... gossip column cites are worthless trash and I can't see that breathless reports on her boyfriends are in any way encyclopedic. It's an invasion of privacy, it's trivial and vulgar. WP is an encyclopedia, not a gossip column. I'm going to see if I can start a discussion in various places (BLP? Village Pump policy?) on when it's OK to mention boyfriends, affairs, etc. I'll probably argue, as I did at the Amitabh article, that it's none of anyone else's business unless it ends up in court or as a huge media tamasha. Reports of X being seen with Y, printed in a couple of gossip columns, just don't count. Zora 03:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Good luck. Since several other editors who are more familiar with your editing history than I are increasingly of the opinion that you are just using WP for a crusade and trying to make it fit "your" idea of what WP should be like (see above sections of talk page), I'm finding it incredibly hard to assume good faith. And for the record, this is not gossip, it is sourced in reputable/reliable sources. As for your threatening to start discussions on boyfriends and the like (as you regularly do), feel free to apply those standards across the board in every "celebrity" article on Wikipedia, but be prepared to defend your views to several editors who may strongly disagree with your views. Although please note that I'm not advocating for the inclusion of what you term as "gossip", I just object to reliably-sourced information about the article being removed with no other reasons than pure superficiality. What you may term as gossip is reliably-sourced information about a person's life and relationships, and cannot be removed just because one editor thinks it is gossip. That seems like a POV if ever there was one. Ekantik talk 03:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I've just taken a closer look at the references in question and I agree that some of them are dubious. Two of them link directly to the tabloid section of the Hindustan Times, a reputable and reliable source of course but the "tabloid" report is dubious. AFAIK tabloid sources are not permissible in WP. However, I still object to the outright removal of such information when more reliable sources could be found to support the same information. Why indulge in blatant removal instead of helping Wikipedia to source information properly? Ekantik talk 03:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

GA failed
Reading through the article, there are a few problems
 * The lead is too short and it needs to be expanded to cover the article properly.
 * Some parts are not referenced
 * Some refs do not cover the whole para. eg 9 only covers part of the sentence, 4 only talks about "style". "Riya has appeared on the cover of a number of magazines." is not in the refs in that para.
 * Secondly, a lot of the references that are there don't match up or aren't working
 * 13 and 16 don't work and they cover BLP material
 * Refs need to cover the names of the writer, where applicable, this is not present in many cases.


 * Controversy section should be worked into the main body, per forking guidelines. The kissing incident should be discussed in conjunction with the film and the public kissing should be in personal life.
 * FU images are not really justified in the context, since the pictures are not discussed at length. The movie scene is not discussed as iconic or important. The calendar isn't discussed much - if there was a notable controversy about her exposing her skin it should be expanded on and related to the picture more.
 * In general, considering the list of movies, the article proabbly should be longer.
 * POV like "legendary" and "illiustrious" should not be used. ALso the source did not say that her mother was a sex symbol or that she looked like her ancestors.

 Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 01:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been almost rewritten after the first failure, and all the comments above were taken into consideration. Aditya (talk • contribs) 16:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The lead section is far too small. I'm afraid, this will hinder its quality. I request the editors to consider this seriously. Best regards, Mspraveen (talk) 10:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the lead somewhat. Please, check. Aditya (talk • contribs) 11:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Some decent work, I would say. R. Madhavan is an Indian film-related GA article. You should have a look at this to gain some ideas on the quality you should be working towards. Unless, this is done at a fairly quick pace, I worry about a favorable assessment. Good luck! If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to ask. Regards, Mspraveen (talk) 13:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Australian musician (SIESHAN)has eyes for Riya Sen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.8.46.235 (talk) 14:46, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Jhankar Beats
The film is claimed to be a hit, while only one site claims so. I looked for it and leading BO sites, such as boxofficeindia and ibosnetwork don't even mention it among the top grossing productions of 2003. I would therefore ask for a secondary source for this claim. Thanks, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  18:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Also please see this link by Rediff. The film was declared a flop after two weeks, and was removed from the BO list afterwards. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  21:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Rediff declares it a flop, and yes, does it after two weeks of release. That probably discounts out the money it made over the next few months. Box office India doesn't mention it in their box office report, which does the same to about hundreds of other films made in Bollywood. One interesting thing that I noticed is that they listed films according to gross earnings, but declared hit or flop according to how much of their investment was returned. The lowest earner in the list had 35%-40% of investment returned, hence a flop, but the same return of 45 million rupees would have returned 200% of Jhankar Beats investment, making it a hit. Box Office returns are a difficult equation, especially so in India. And, that's why I'd prefer to go with major mainstream media verdicts like the Hindu (which was supported by others). I didn't even count in Times of India here, as the film was an investment of their publisher. Aditya (talk • contribs) 04:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I know that BOI mentions only the highest grossing. And BTW, not only box office India, but every other box office analyst in the world calculates verdicts according to how much of a film's investment was returned. That's why The Hero, which was the most expensive Bollywood production up until then, flopped miserably (which was quite expected). That's why I wonder why Rediff does not mention further. Maybe it stopped its screenings and thrown off the cinemas?
 * My biggest concern is: is there any other evidence? IBOSnetwork doesn't mention it either (when it has 50 film listed). This link from the Hindu doesn't really say the film was a hit, and it was published merely 10 days after the film release. On the other hand, The Tribune doesn't mention that, when it comes to a full box office coverage...
 * What comes from that, is that the link on the page is the only one, and I don't really have a problem with that. The problem is that other reputable sources don't even mention that, don't support the claim, and even contradict it. That's why I ask for a secondary source, for an evidence. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  09:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh now there is another one. Shaadi no. 1 a hit? Well this one clearly wasn't. BO states it was a flop, so does IBOS, so does indiaFM, and so do many other sites. So I'll take the liberty to remove it. An article, which is on its way to reach high status, cannot be based on wrong info. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  09:32, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine with the Shaadi bit, I already had refrained myself from quoting it as a hit. Jhankar not too sure of. Would you want to rewrite it like the success was in the public attention, like the Tribune does, and lead to a commercial success among in the limited distribution format, like reported by the Hindu? May be the "surprise" thing can stay as part of the scene.
 * BTW, all around the world box office success is not just measured by first week or first month success across the whole gamut of distribution outlets. Cost recovery happens in many ways that includes TV rights, music rights, franchise, selection of outlets and the mode of distribution (i.e. selling off the prints, renting the prints, screening by wholly-owned services etc.). In India it is even more difficult as audit practices are not too transparent in rural regions, and already there are way too many overlapping market segments. For really big films it's fairly easy to find out. For smaller films that recover investment at a smaller scale, it certainly isn't so. This complexities are part of the reason that Hum Aapke Hain Kaun...! was declared an all tie blockbuster even when it recovered only 80%-85%.
 * Anyways, it's great to have someone taking an interest in the article, and I want it to turn out only the best way. When you get to the Family life and Public persona sections you'd find a lot of choppy sentences loosely joined together, not always making a coherent sense. That's the part I really need to clear up before submitting it to GAN or something. I hope you'll be here till that happens. Aditya (talk • contribs) 10:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I'll be here to help you, friend!=] Writing a BLP article about an artist, media person or celebrity, is not an easy task and actually one of the most difficult ones. I know that from my own experience. I'll try to do something with Jhankar Beats first. Regards, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  12:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What do you say about it now? Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  13:20, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Riya Sen
Riya Sen should be ready for another go at GAN. Would you care to take a look and leave your comments on the talk page? Aditya (talk • contribs) 07:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Shahid
Well, I've made some copyediting, but it still needs a big deal of work. Here are general comments.


 * Reliability of sources:
 * Deccan Herald
 * Keral.com
 * That's Malayalam
 * Chennaionline
 * India Varta
 * 4dw.com

Are they reliable?

Needs major work in that aspect.
 * Prose
 * Please beware using too many "also"s, "even" etc.
 * Don't start a sentence with "But".

Later I'll comment on specific sentences. Shahid •  Talk 2 me  16:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The more I read, the more I get disppointed. There is no end to the word "also", and this is not the way an encyclopedia article should be written -- it makes it sound like a list of sentences without coherence or flow. But I'll still say that it has great potential, and with some work, it will reach the so awaited GA.


 * more comments


 * Public persona
 * What is Mr. India Final?
 * Smashits is not a reliable source.

Shahid •  Talk 2 me  16:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've made major copyediting, grammar correction, etc., and in my opinion it looks better. I'm yet to go through the personal life section. What do you say? Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  17:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Reply A lot of issues there. Going one by one. Deccan Herald looks like a very reliable source to me. Keral.com and That's Malayalam are too far behind, judging by the amount of citations they have. Though all three sources are wee bit tainted by POVs, which is readily manageable. I can't decide as strongly about Chennaionline and India Varta, but judging by the content, POVs aside, they look kind of reliable. Don't know about 4dw.com, looks pretty unreliable at that. Smashits is obviously not reliable.
 * Thanks for removing all those "but"s, "even"s and "also"s. I have removed what was left, and the prose actually got better. Sorry about the prose. I know my already bad English is getting worse, and that's why I keep requesting people to lend a hand there. Not getting too many copyeditors around yet, and most of my hard-work remain short of good articles because of the atrocious prose. Thanks for improving it dramatically.
 * The personal life and public persona sections (especially the latter) is particularly in shambles. Please, take a long hard look. I promise to address every issues I can. And, oh, Mr. India Final would be the final of the Mr. India competition. I have tweaked the copy a bit there. Aditya (talk • contribs) 13:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Deccan Herald should be fine.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 07:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * More comments:
 * Please don't refer to her as "the actress".
 * There are problems in flow:
 * "...MMS clip, which was alleged as a publicity move. In 2007, she underwent a brief detoxification..." - It doesn't flow, and there is no relation at all - these two sentences cannot come together in one paragraph, let alone one right after the other.
 * "...where she stays with her sister. In her early days in Mumbai she used to travel by public transport..." - Again.
 * "Riya's public persona is compared to her mother..." - it clearly belongs to the "public persona" section. Although it starts with info re her mother and grandmother, the section is named "Early life and background" - which means - no redundant additions regarding her present life, this section should introduce a pure and factual description of her family and background, nothing else.
 * The MMS clip, alleged affairs etc., can be moved to a separate section, "Personal life" or "Personal life and controversies".
 * Shahid •  Talk 2 me  16:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have made some radical changes to the personal life section. Most problems should be fixed, though, I feel, there's still some choppiness left. Aditya (talk • contribs) 19:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Blofeld of SPECTRE
Mm it looks much better than when I last saw it but still needs a major copy edit "the film pioneered a trend of commercial success for small budget films in India" -mm m I don't like this phrase. Was this film really the first ever low budget film to succeed?? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 17:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Riya Sen, since joining Bollywood, has become a representative of the aspirations of younger people of India by way of her clothing style, kissing scenes and outgoing manners" -this is far too generalized and POV however much of a model she is. All the stuff on the glitzy parties and bikinis. Much of that reads like blog and will have to be seriously cut and reworded  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 18:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The public persona section has been entirely rehashed. And, it's tough to write about a film actress who has a persona bigger than her career success, especially since I can't write that outright, without reliable sources verifying it. I hope it doesn't read like a blog anymore. As for the "trend of commercial success for small budget films in India", I can assure that it was not the first small-budget film to become a commercial success. But, it was indeed followed shortly by quite a few similarly successful small-budget films, and the trend was often attributed to the success of Style. I believe the details would be a better fit in an article on the film (I haven't got around to it, yet). Can you suggest how the copy should go here? It would be a great help, as, you must have discovered already, that I suck at the copy. Aditya (talk • contribs) 15:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Blnguyen
The "Language=English" parameter is not usually needed for English sources as we are on English Wikipedia. Only the non-English sources need to be tagged like this. I'll point out more things as I see them.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 07:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Refs should be after the punct. I have changed some.
 * Inline cites should be ordered, so we don't get [23][1]. But that probably won't kill a GA, but it's good to get it sorted anyway.
 * The first thing that struck me when reading the English is the lack of articles (grammar) such as "a" and "the" when required.
 * Is Sen a considered to be so common that people are known by their first names? Because there are instances of using "Riya" and "Riya Sen" in the main prose. If the convention is to use first names like Sikh Singhs and Khans, eg HARBHAJAN Singh, YUVRAJ Singh, ZAHEER Khan etc, then stick to Riya everywhere and don't use "Riya Sen" in the main body. Else use "Sen".  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 07:54, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sen is pretty common surname, like most other Indian surnames. That is why it is more appropriate for an Indian to be identified by his/her first name. The case is generally different for Indians climbing to prominence in a Western country, where his/her surname may be the only Indian surname available in his/her field. Position of refs has largely been fixed, after punctuation and putting them in proper order. Please, check if some were overlooked. Can you help putting in the articles, if some are still missing? Aditya (talk • contribs) 19:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. Thanks for clarifying the surname policy wrt Sen.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 04:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Tripura Addition
Note: WP India Project Banner with Tripura workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Tripura or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate, please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag   TALK2ME  11:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Amateur mobile video
Riya sen is also known for her famous sex scene clip with Ashmit patel. This entire video circulated among many indians and received wide publicity in Indian Media. It is a 3gp clip taken while Ashmit patel and Riya sen had some private moment (suckled tits and fingered pussy). She got wide publicity akin to Paris Hilton in US for her mobile clip. She is now branded "too sexy" for normal glamour roles in regular Hindi or Bengali Movies.123.238.71.150 (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Use of Kathakali
Ananthabhadram is a 2005 film and Vanaprastham is 1999 film. How can the use of Kathakali in a newer movie influence an older one? vedaj 14:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vedaj89 (talk • contribs)

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted because... --182.178.102.35 (talk) 12:37, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

luohi'[[u hpki fykuyjukjk


 * What are you up to ? You yourself tagged the page for CSD A7 and you yourself are contesting it ?
 * I have removed the CSD tag, as this Article is Notable. Bentogoa (talk) 12:45, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Confusion!
Not to be confused with Raima Sen, Rimi Sen, or Reemma Sen. – How can someone confuse here? There s no similarity in spelling or pronunciations! -- Tito Dutta  ✉  06:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this only belongs on those other girls' articles. BollyJeff  &#124;  talk  13:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Riya Sen herself agrees! And she adds that "Unfortunately my Wikipedia page is controlled by a handful of journalists who have totally messed it up." Tongue.png  Jay (Talk) 12:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Filmography
This GA looks a bit different from the others in this section. It is uncommon now to not have rows spans on the years, and to have a co-stars column. I propose that we rectify these issues. It will also give more screen space to the notes section, where things are cramped right now. Comments? BollyJeff &#124;  talk  13:58, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Please go ahead. Aditya  (talk • contribs) 12:35, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Please proceed to change the filmography type. Torreslfchero (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ BollyJeff  &#124;  talk  14:37, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

birthdate
This needs to be properly sourced. I see it getting changed, as like so many other actresses too. BollyJeff &#124;  talk  15:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you help? Aditya  (talk • contribs) 18:04, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Revert
I have just reverted the edits by 59.182.152.34 (and subsequent edits) to the last version by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz. Those changes were problematic on several levels. They introduced factual errors (for example regarding Sen's legal surname), the content often was not supported by the given references, the tone (describing Sen's mother as a "small-time starlet"?) was unsuitable for Wikipedia. I haven't checked all the content I reverted, but when I encountered not just multiple instances of synthesis and unsourced negative content, but outright falsehoods, I thought it best to pull the plug. Huon (talk) 21:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

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Recent edits by Prasunkuls9
I see that you have made a big edit summary while making a bold change to the article. While you have a point to make, let me assure you that an edit summary is not the place for it. A talk page is the appropriate place for such discussion.

For the discussion allow me to remind you what you said on the two occassions you have removed a piece of material widely covered by mainstream media (all sourced, cited and balanced).

"Article mentioned defaming sentence regarding Riya & Ashmit patel which remained unproved . This detail to article appears defaming to Riya Sen."

- The first removal

"Changed detailes related to ashmit patel and riya sen MMS. That MMS has nothing to do with Riya sen. It was just a rumour and confirmed by celebrity in various interviews. Content placed on wiki shall attaract legal complications and defame subject to Riya sen. Request u to consider to allow this change . The MMS mentioned here was about some body double nudity that went viral. Its absolute fake information to attach with Riya sen on her Wiki page."

- The second removal

I would also like to remind of the comment I made with my revert.

"unproved is not a problem. removing appropriately sourced and cited material material is"

- The first revert

You see, Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. That means if a piece of information is notable and relevant enough, and has been covered as notable by independant and creadible sources, then it stays. You can't just go ahead and remove it. If another set of sources say the information is wrong, then that gets included too, without removing the other information. Even if you know something to be true, you need to play by Wikipedia policies while on Wikipedia and back it up with sources and cites. But you still must remain impartial.

"I don't like it" or "I know it's true" are hardly good enough reason to include or remove here. I am reinstating the article. If you have a rational for removal, please discuss here. Decisions are better taken with consensus, and not wars. I am sure we can solve this like gentlemen. If needed we can involve other editors to moderate and arbitrate. Thank you.

By the way, the new image you used to replace the old is an empty link, meaning the image doesn't exist and, therefore, can't be used. Also the the link to the official mobile app couldn't be included in the infobox, as the infobox has no such parameter. I hope you understand. Aditya (talk • contribs) 03:01, 25 June 2020 (UTC)