Talk:Rob Roy MacGregor

Untitled
For those interested, an account of Rob Roy's death far better, in my humble opinion, than the one presented in this article (although possibly not as reliable) is available at. &mdash; Itai (f&t) 13:21, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Everything I've seen about Rob Roy says he died in bed of old age. It would take more than an unsubstantiated assertion on somebody's homepage to overcome multiple scholarly sources. Sorry. 24.178.126.182 04:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

WHY IS HE INFAMOUS?

Doubtful treason charges?
What is doubtful about charging a man captured after fighting against his sovereign (William III)? He may have been loyal to James, but he committed treason against William. No doubt.

Maybe it's Wallace-esque, "I can not be a traitor, for I owe him no allegiance. He is not my Sovereign; he never received my homage; and whilst life is in this persecuted body, he never shall receive it." 68.97.181.129 22:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Glen Shiel
No mention of this battle where he was "badly wounded" is made on this page so is this the same Rob Roy?

Battle of Glen Shiel —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzapper (talk • contribs) 09:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now added a reference to The Battle of Glen Shiel zzapper 13:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)zzapper

According to David Stevenson in The Hunt for Rob Roy: The Man and the Myths, Rob Roy never fought in any battle so how could he have been wounded at Glen Shiel? Brewphilip (talk) 11:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

CATTLE RUSTLING LEGAL? Worried that this is not true and the source used is not academic enough, after all it is the recollections of a tour by Dorothy Wordsworth,wonderful but full of romantic tosh. There was still the hot trod law for getting back stolen cattle. Reiving happened a lot but it was not legal or honest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.50.107 (talk) 01:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Highland Rogue
Its my understanding that Daniel Defoe did NOT write this. He became connected to it after Sir Walter Scott said something along the lines of "if only it had been written by Defoe". Brewphilip (talk) 11:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Glad to see this has been fixed! 77.102.136.61 (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Rob being branded an outlaw
"Rob Roy borrowed a large sum of money to increase his own cattle herd, but due to the deception of his chief herder, who was entrusted with the money to bring the cattle back, Rob Roy lost his money and cattle..."

According to David Stevenson in The Hunt for Rob Roy: The Man and the Myths, there is a completely different explanation for this... the deceiptful friend was a later invention and he was never mentiontioned by Rob! Personally I think this page on Rob Roy is quoting all the myths as are the sites referenced. If I get time I will go through Stevenson's book again and cite his references! In the meantime maybe someone else could have another look at Rob Roy's life! Brewphilip (talk) 11:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Name
Surely, according to WP:COMMONNAME, he should be called Rob Roy McGregor. PatGallacher (talk) 13:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarised?
The content on this article is almost identical in most places to the article found at Rob Roy MacGregor.

I cannot find an original publish date on the linked article, so am unsure which came first. Nor am I an expert (or even knowledgable) on Rob Roy, so cannot re-write the Wiki article. I just thought I would bring it to the attention of anyone interested, as I know Wikipedia has guidelines on copyright violation. Although I suppose they may both have come from the referenced Nigel Tranter book.

86.11.186.147 (talk) 01:28, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at the article revision history, this version (more or less) appears to date from at least mid-2007. The website you reference is copyrighted 2009.  That means almost nothing except probably robroycountry.com is using WP's content.  I'll leave a note for one of our copyright specialists to take a look, though.  Thanks for the heads up.  Tide  rolls  01:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi. Tide rolls is correct that robroycountry.com is using the Wikipedia article. A review of the editing history shows the Wikipedia article was created through incremental edits by different editors. Take for example, this sentence: Rob Roy became a well-known and respected cattleman — this was a time when cattle rustling and selling protection against theft was a commonplace means of earning a living. It appeared in Wikipedia in 2006 as: Rob Roy was a well-known and respected cattleman — this was a time when cattle were considered common property, taking someones cattle was not illegal, and selling protection against theft was an honest means of earning a living. But it was changed here through a series of small edits by various editors into the version used on the outside website.


 * The outside website (the earliest version found in internet archives is from August 7, 2008) appears to have been copied from Wikipedia sometime between November 15, 2007 and March 17, 2008 -- when the word "blackmail" was changed in this edit. -- and actually should be attributed to Wikipedia. We can add robroycountry.com to the other websites listed at Mirrors and forks. — Cactus Writer (talk) 19:53, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the on-point, timely response I've come to expect from you, CactusWriter.  Tide  rolls  20:02, 29 April 2012 (UTC) ....and I'm not just saying that because you reinforced my stab in the dark :)....thanks, sincerely.

Linked Wikipedia Source Material in Conflict with Main Article "Rob Roy MacGregor"
With reference to the article page last modified on 5 April 2014 at 14:54, the article states "In July 1717, Rob Roy and the whole of the Clan Gregor were specifically excluded from the benefits of the Indemnity Act 1717 which had the effect of pardoning all others who took part in the Jacobite rising of 1715.[4]" Notably, the words Indemnity Act 1717 in the sentence just quoted is linked to a wikipedia source article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indemnity_Act_1717.

The source article about the Indemnity Act of 1717, however, specifically states that there were other Jacobite exceptions to the Act: "There were a number of specific exceptions to the general pardon granted by the Act, including Matthew Prior and Robert Harley, 1st Earl of Oxford, who had both been held in the Tower since before the Rising of 1715, Oxford's friend Lord Harcourt and his cousin Thomas Harley. All members of the Clan MacGregor were also excluded from its benefits,[1] one of the targets of this last exclusion being the famous Rob Roy MacGregor.[2]"

Thus, the article appears to be in direct conflict with one of its source articles when it states that the effect of the Act was to pardon all who took part in the Jacobite rising of 1715 except Clan MacGregor. Yet, both footnote four of this article about Rob Roy MacGregor and footnote two of the source article about the Indemnity Act of 1717 cite Peter Hume Brown, A History of Scotland to the Present Time, p. 154. It seems to me that one of these conflicting articles inaccurately reflects page 154 of Peter Hume Brown's text. I will attempt to find the text, but welcome other contributors to look into this conflict, which can probably be quickly resolved if one has access to the cited text by Mr. Brown. My aim as an editor is to contribute to the quality of articles regarding Scottish history.

TaraMcKenzie (talk) 05:16, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Chronology
The chronology of the article is a bit confusing and is it seems to skip forward and backward. I would try to fix but I'm not an expert on the topic (only checking the article as I'm battling my way through the Scott novel and wanted some background).  Tigerboy1966  09:48, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Apologia
This article is almost a fairy-tale apologia of this outlaw. 86.154.104.182 (talk) 08:05, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Cousin Duncan
It has been argued that they also adopted a cousin named Duncan, but this is not certain.[why?] lol That wouldn't be Duncan MacLeod of the clan MacLeod, would it? Nice one. 2600:6C40:2D7F:F9BF:883F:9C7E:9CFF:2212 (talk) 18:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rob Roy which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Telemaco Signorini Painting
As I saw Telemaco Signorini's painting which title is "Leath", I noticed something which seems to be an advertisement with "ROB ROY" mention. If somebody has any information about a trade mark or something about commercials using his name, in the 19e century, I would be interested.

See below the link to wikicommons: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Telemaco_Signorini_002.jpg

Thanks by advance --Limfjord69 (talk) 20:27, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Why exactly is he remembered?
Scotland has had various outlaws and various Jacobite rebels. What exactly is it about Rob Roy's life that made him an appealing character for fictional portrayals? The article doesn't say. Would more information about his feud with the Duke of Montrose address this? Gvros8 (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2022 (UTC)