Talk:Robert Goff, Baron Goff of Chieveley/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 16:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Comments
 * A minor thing and certainly (as far as I know) not GA criteria, but I always look to keep leads clean of references as in principle everything noted in the lead should be in the main part of the article too and can be referenced there. This even applies to the direct quotations.  Just makes for a better-looking intro?
 * I've removed the references and moved some of the material from the lead into the main section. The comments by Andrew Burrows and Stephen Tomlinson aren't in the main part of the article, so I've left the citations for those two, if that's okay. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm not sure of the MOS guidance on material, including quotes, being only in the lead, but it's not a GA criterion, so if you're happy to leave them then I won't argue. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Just for thoroughness, I've had a look at the MOS. It says in MOS:LEADNO that not all information in the body needs to appear in the lead, and one of the exceptions is quotations. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 10:25, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "His father Lionel Goff " seeing as you introduced him in full in the previous sentence, no need to repeat Goff. And subsequent sentence...
 * Replaced the first instance with "Lionel", and the second instance with "he". Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "Royal Military Academy, Woolwich and" comma after Woolwich.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Kind of kicks off twice, "Robert Goff was born" starts two paras. A little odd for me.
 * Removed the second instance, which was redundant. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "He was closer to his mother than his father. Unlike his" seek to merge to avoid short sentence and quick repeat of "his father".
 * Edited the sentence. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "piano and taught him to play it." reads a little odd, no need for "it".
 * Removed. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * " He left Eton ..." quite a few run-ons in this sentence.
 * Removed part of the line that said that he was to take up his place after his military service. I imagine this is obvious given what follows. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Odd subdivision in the Early life and education: his start at Oxford after his military service precedes the military service subsection. A bit chronologically wonky.
 * Not quite sure what to do about this... he was assigned a place at Oxford before his military service began. Would it be better to say, at the beginning of the "University education" subsection, that he received this place upon leaving Eton? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I've edited it so that the early education only mentions Goff having a place at Oxford. It then talks about his military service, following which he takes up the place at Oxford. Does this work? Alternatively, I could edit the section heading to read: "Early life, military service, and higher education". Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 03:00, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It works fine as you've edited it, thanks. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Any reason that "Guard Duty" is capitalised?
 * Only that it was capitalised in the reference, perhaps to indicate that it was not regular sentry duty but had a ceremonial element. I suppose this is clear from the fact that it was Windsor Castle. Changed to lower caps. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * No reason for Tutors to be capitalised.
 * I had linked it incorrectly. It should be Tutor (education), which unlike a personal tutor is a College officer responsible for students' pastoral care and welfare, but not academic progress. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "Lord Goff as a soldier, circa 1944." image caption is a fragment so no need for a full stop.
 * Removed. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:02, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "Combination Room .[11]" remove space before ref, and consider a link for JCR?
 * Done, thanks, good call. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:04, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "the Bar after" why is Bar capitalised?
 * I'm not certain what the convention is, but every instance I've seen of the practicing Bar in the UK has the first letter capitalised (e.g. London Bar). It seems its the opposite in the US. Is it preferable to put it in lower caps? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:09, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think, because in most cases you're referring to it simply as "the bar" then it should be lower case and only upper case when being specific. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to say that it should be capitalised. The Cambridge English Dictionary capitalises it. I've had a look around: the UK  and Australian  Bar Associations capitalise it, though the New York  and Ontario  Bar Associations don't. Since the subject was British, maybe we should leave it capitalised? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 10:33, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "1954-55" (and others) use an en-dash for year ranges.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "This was initially a joint project with Maudsley, but their partnership later fell through" again, it feels like you're letting the cat out of the bag when you later go on to explain the breakdown in their partnership, I don't think you need to introduce it here?
 * Yes, I think you're right. Removed. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 00:54, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * A.W.B is overlinked. As is New and Lincoln college.
 * Removed additional links. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:01, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * You use QC before stating Queen's Counsel, and it's overlinked.
 * I've removed the "Queen's Counsel". I don't think I can expand "Ashton Roskill QC" to "Ashton Roskill, Queen's Counsel (QC)" without making it look clunky and artificial. I think I'll leave it as "QC", with a link so a reader can see what that means. Somewhat like "OBE". Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:01, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * On second thought, "Ashton Roskill, Queen's Counsel" sounds fine. I've expanded it to that (without "QC" in parentheses), and I've added a link to the next instance of "QC". Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 03:05, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "titled Judge, Jurist and Legislature, i" usually avoid inline external links.
 * Changed it to a citation. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:05, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "by Lord Neuberger[25] and Jack Beatson.[26]" just move that [25] to the end to avoid awkward placement.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Beatson is overlinked.
 * Removed extra links. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * List of cases, some end with a full stop and some don't.
 * Removed the full stops. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * British Airways is overlinked.
 * Removed extra links Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Butterworth is also.
 * Removed extra links Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "rampant Or." fragment, no full stop needed.
 * Removed. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * "Fier Sans Tache [38]" remove space before ref and I imagine this, being Latin, should be italics.
 * It's in French. Italicised. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Tsk, French. Of course.  I did only get a B in Latin mind you... The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Not sure either "See also" is needed here.
 * Removed. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Check ref titles, spaced hyphens should be spaced en-dashes.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Check publishers, works etc, e.g. "Country Life UK" should be Country Life and it's unnecessary to include UK.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 01:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Not sure I saw any prose about the succession of Lord Browne-Wilkinson to the position of Senior Law Lord?
 * Added the line: "He retired in 1998, but continued to sit on cases occasionally until his 75th birthday. He was succeeded as Senior Lord of Appeal in Ordinary by Lord Browne-Wilkinson, and his vacant seat on the House of Lords bench was taken over by his former junior Lord Hobhouse."


 * Ref 38 could use a page number, isbn etc.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 02:20, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Year ranges need en-dash, e.g. 2017-2018.
 * Done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 02:20, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

That's all I have for a quick review. On hold while we go over them. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 14:05, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , thank you for such a thorough review, and for your patience with the many errors of style. I've done most of the edits, with a couple I'm not sure how to address. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 03:09, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I've responded in line above, not much to do really except perhaps double check the "bar/Bar" usage. Let me know when you're done and I'll do one final pass.  Cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks again! I've checked the bar/Bar question and responded inline too. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 10:34, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'm happy with that and the article easily meets the GA criteria. Good work. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:51, 29 March 2020 (UTC)