Talk:Robert Goren

Deletion
This article was proposed for deletion January 2005. The discussion is archived at Votes for deletion/Robert Goren. Joyous 02:43, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

ADD?
I'd like to see a source that says he has Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. It doesn't not seem entirely consistent with his character to me. Timb0h 10:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed; not only is the notation poorly written, it doesn't fit with the character at all. However, I seem to remember him saying in one episode that Asperger's syndrome ran in his family, or something similar.  That might be worth mentioning in the Trivia section. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 11:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I slapped a "citation needed" tag on it. If the show's creators claim he has it, fine. But just reading the definition of Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, there's no way Goren has it. If anything, it's the opposite. He is obsessively relentless in his pursuit of answers in a case. If he appears to be easily distracted, that's just part of his "game" in zeroing in on a criminal suspect. I equate him to Columbo, who always presented himself as kind of eccentric and not necessarily very bright, and the criminals always fell into his psychological trap. Wahkeenah 12:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It turns out that was posted by an IP address on the 10th. I zapped it. Wahkeenah 12:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The creators of Criminal Intent have never said Goren has ADD or any other disease, nor has it ever been mentioned in any episode whatsoever. Mseames

D'Onofrio and the writers probably didn't intend for this so it shouldn't go in the article, but both his above average sensory perception (smell specifically), his ability to analyse personality traits and his apparent way of dealing with feelings of affection are consistent with a high functioning autism, specifically Asperger Syndrome. In fact I always automatically assumed that D'Onofrio was intentionally playing a high functioning autist (which I thought was a great contrast with the usual Rainman style autist we usually see on TV and in movies), because I recognised so much of myself and friends in the character. It wasn't until I read this wiki article that I realised that wasn't the case. Oh well, maybe they'll make Goren an autist retroactively if they ever find out about the similarities... Robrecht 03:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Democrat?
Goren has never mentioned his political leanings nor explicity claimed legion to one party or another. I am removing the tag. Mseames

Porphyria
There was an interview with D'Onofrio in the Metro (freebie newspaper in UK) where he describes his motivations behind how he played Goren. He had originally thought his quirks could be down to porphyria and wanted to play him that way... but since discovered that modern medicine can pretty much control the symptoms that would explain his behaviour. I don't know whether I could find a reference though. 88.107.117.179 22:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well that didn't take too long. The interview at the Metro states:
 * Originally, I wanted him to have porphyria - the disease in the movie The Madness Of King George - where you can't stop talking, have no editing system and your pee turns blue. I thought it'd be really cool for him to have that because he does talk a lot but apparently the medication now means you don't get those symptoms. We'll have to think of something else.

Trivia
I restored the trivia section. I disagree that the information is "trivial trivia"... I don't find a birthdate or social security number to be trivial, in particular. With that information, you can steal a real person's identity! I personally find it interesting that the creators of Criminal Intent have gone so far as to supply a fictional character with such details. Further, I think the call on what is too "trivial" is subjective. For example, I would delete knowledge of languages as too trivial before DOB and SSN.

The section is labeled trivia afterall... And most of the information has citations, so it is in fact from the show. If there is a decision to remove the information that has no citation, I could understand.

Discussion? --ktoonen 01:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * And there are also guidelines against trivia if at all possible to NOT have any trivia.
 * Additionally, there is no need or rationale for the social security number of any human, real or fictional, to be on Wikipedia. Same with shoe size too, with the sole exception of if his shoe size was notable, that is, being the largest shoe size or the smallest. But it's neither.
 * Also, the languages he can speak are far less trivial than his social security number. I mean, tell someone what languages you speak, they know more about you. Tell them your social security number, they realize that you are like one of those hundred million+ people who also have one. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * For example, if there were something significant about his SSN, like if it were 123-45-6789 or something else that's eye-catching? Wahkeenah 10:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, even that's not notable. A character having the largest footsize or smallest footsize ever is a world record, his SN being that would just be a funny coincidence. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * More to the point, if there was something inherently interesting about his SSN, or was part of the story. Sgt. Joe Friday's badge number in the LAPD, 714, for example, is "significant" because it was prominently and frequently displayed. I think we're actually arguing from the same side. :) Wahkeenah 22:06, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I realize we're on the same side, I was just clarifying that even if it is a funny coincidence, it's not really enough. Joe Friday's badge # is well-known, but I'd go to say that more people know Friday's badge # than those who know Goren's first name. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Army CID Captain?
That seems unlikely. Investigators in CID are NCO's or warrant officers.

"She dies that evening"
Go to the part about Goren's birth father. It says "At last, after he insists he has to find out, his mother reveals that she does not know who his father is: Goren senior or Brady. She dies that evening. Brady is executed that night." She dies? What? His mother is alive as far as I know. Then it says "The episode closes with Goren sitting in her now-empty and darkened room, staring into space." They are either talking about Bobby, who is a he, not a she, or his mother, who supposedly just died. So overall this paragraph is confusing. I think taking out "She dies that evening" will solve things. 11:36, july 15, 2007, chesemonkyloma (im not logged in right now)

Hey, Chesemonkyloma, you need to watch "Endgame" again. The last two scenes--between Eames and the Captain at the Station, and with Goren and the nurse in Frances' hospital room--make it absolutely clear that his mother has died. MultiplePOV 08-24-07.

Thanks Ktoonen
Good edits; you improved the overall structure, deleted redundancy, etc. Hopefully the IMDB style opinion regarding EndGame will not summarily be restored. The opinion RE "melodrama" and "overwrought" belongs in the Criminal Intent article in some category discussing the series' style.

-- ktoonen 21:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. However, they did get restored.  I'm reluctant to work on it again since I don't want to start a flame war.  But, I agree that the current wording is emotionally charged.  Since it's an IP not a registered user, I'm not sure what to do about it.  Ideas?

Jewish?
Anyone know if Goren is Jewish? In "Murderer Among Us" he's "accused" of being Jewish but doesn't say anything about it. He knows at least some about Judaism and enough Hebrew to know that "nashot" [sic] means women but not enough to know that "chayil" means valor (see "Shandeh"), but I wouldn't take his knowledge as any indicator, just as I don't suppose he's Syrian based on his familiarity with Aramaic or Muslim because of his familiarity with Islam. I know that he refers to having been an altar boy and at one point refers to being Catholic, but he could still have Jewish background. Anyone have any other insights? Avraham (talk) 05:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think Goren let the suspect think Goren was Jewish to antagonize the suspect into a confession. The suspect hated Jewish people and once Goren provoked him by using his hatred of Jews. It's classic Goren suspect manipulation. Goren described himself as a lapsed Catholic early in the series. His language knowledge stems from his military background. Hope that helps.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.19.17.65 (talk) 00:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Relationship with Eames
Should this section be updated to reflect how Goren 'betrayed her' in the past few episodes? More specifically how he got her to cover for him while he went undercover in the prison, and how he seemed to completely ignore her (to protect her) while he went undercover in the narcotics ring. From when she confronted him when he was arrested, she seems to be holding a grudge, but this may go away in the next episode they appear in. I just wanted to add in my thoughts. Facebookery (talk) 14:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Intelligence?
Is he really that intelligent or might he "suffer" from an autistic disorder? There are people who can deal with it, i always thought Goran is kind of that. --89.244.99.190 (talk) 21:31, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

OR Notice
I'm taking this notice off because I think the page has been cleaned up significantly since it was added. If anyone disagrees, feel free to pop it back on or note what seems like OR so it can be addressed. I think those tags just really junk up a page when they're not necessary.Bobbyandbeans (talk) 23:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Frank Goren as Brother vs. Half-Brother
I'm changing this back to "brother" because it was never stated if Brady was Frank's father as well, which is a possibility. Regardless of Frank's father, "brother" will be more technically accurate. Bobbyandbeans (talk) 23:24, 4 January 2012 (UTC) (always forget my stupid signature)

Absences
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