Talk:Robert Green/Archive 1

Date of birth correct?
According to England F.C. it is 19 January, but here on Wikipedia it says 18 January.

Although The FA says it is 18 January. --  MATTYTHEWHITE    yap    stalk   16/8/06

Rob Green is fantastic! Number 1 goalie in the Premier League!! Chubberwombie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chubberwombie (talk • contribs) 18:15, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

there is no way this guy is 6ft 3, he was about 2 inches shorter than rio ferdinand in the england lineup the other night when they were stood next to each other. 6ft 1 maximum! tho im sure footballers lie about their height alot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.191.224.106 (talk) 14:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

In the Premier League??? He isn't even the best keeper in London! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.204.115 (talk) 20:30, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

can't goalkeep
thanks rob for losing that one!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.88.59 (talk) 19:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I've got a feeling this gonna need to be protected mighty soon
Just call it a hunch.Whatzinaname (talk) 19:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * not even a joke, like the goal itself 174.111.82.239 (talk) 19:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed if somebody already hasn't I'm going to make a request at WP:RFPP.-- Giants 27  ( Contribs  |  WP:CFL ) 19:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

What a complete *&^%$! After the persecution of the excellent Robinson and the flop of Carson, why start a World Cup with a dodgy keeper with just 10 caps playing for a side who deserved to be relegated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.204.115 (talk) 20:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Surely we should at least have a mention of the incident added to the article? zellin t / c' 20:45, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

It's one thing to protect the page, can you at least mention something about today's game???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.114.236 (talk) 21:19, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The incident is, clearly, the biggest talking point of the tournament so far, and if England should fail to advance, he'll be made the scapegoat much like Beckham in '98. When the English people wake up tomorrow, the front page of every single paper in that country, and many around Europe and the world, will have Green's picture on it.  Anyone saying the incident isn non-notable is either 1) a huge Robert Green fan, or 2) delusional.  It clearly merits mention, in a neutral, NPOV manner. 99.169.250.133 (talk) 21:27, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

If the article must be fully protected...
If the article is going to be fully protected, at least a mention should be made of the incident today that has provoked the need for full protection. To pre-empt the response of "recentism", I would point out that today's game is surely more significant than most, if not all, of the other games that are currently mentioned in the article. Kansan (talk) 22:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, we should wait 5 years and if people still remember this THEN we'll add it...70.123.157.65 (talk) 23:55, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I can assure you that people will remember it. I'm not claiming it's a huge deal, but these things stay in the English psyche for a long, long time. 92.233.42.76 (talk) 19:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposed paragraph about ENG-USA match
So, because the page is on full protect, but I think there's consensus that the circumstances of today's match need a mention in the article, I've written a short paragraph below that can be edited mercilessly, and I am an American, so if any bias creeps in, crush it.

"On June 12, 2010, in the 2010 FIFA World Cup match between England and the United States, Green achieved infamy after failing to save a shot taken by US midfielder Clint Dempsey. In the 40th minute of the match, Dempsey turned and shot from outside the penalty area; although the shot was directly at Green, the ball bounced off his gloves and trickled over the goal line, allowing the Americans to equalize. Neither the US nor England scored for the rest of the match (although Green did save a very dangerous shot from American forward Jozy Altidore), and the match ended in a 1-1 draw. Green was widely ridiculed and criticized for the flub in the aftermath of the incident, with ESPN commentator Martin Tyler referring to the goal as "the softest goal you'll ever see" and a "catastrophe" for England. England coach Fabio Capello has not decided who he will select as goalkeeper for England's next match against Algeria on June 18." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingnavland (talk • contribs) 22:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So, claims like Green having "achieved infamy" and being "widely ridiculed and criticized" should go in completely unsourced? I think you need to give WP:V a read. Anyway, surely this could all be summed up in one or two sentences? Mattythewhite (talk) 22:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How about: "Green was selected as goalkeeper for the 2010 FIFA World Cup match between England and the United States on 12 June 2010. After England went into a 1-0 lead, Green failed to save a long-range shot taken by US midfielder Clint Dempsey in the 40th minute of the match, the ball bouncing off his gloves and over the goal line.  The incident, described by the BBC as "a moment of complete calamity", allowed the match to end in a 1-1 draw. "   Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Fine with me. I think we should act fast and put something into the article rather soon. I am sure there are many people coming to this article and wondering why there is nothing about the last game yet (that was my surprise, BTW). I think the priority is to say something about it now! We can polish it later. Let's go! -- 71.139.6.222 (talk) 00:07, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to act fast but I like Ghmyrtle's wording very neutral and accurate.-- Giants 27  ( Contribs  |  WP:CFL ) 00:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if I liked "allowed the match to end in a 1-1 draw." It contributed to the match ending in a 1-1 draw, but the performances of the England and US players throughout the entire game allowed the match to end in a 1-1 draw.  In any case, this is so much better than that disaster above. zellin t / c' 00:24, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree. This fumble -- which some are describing as practically an own goal -- could be a career ender for Green.  There already is no shortage of commentary from reliable sources decrying it in the most unambiguous way possible, so I don't think finding a WP:RS for virtually any negative adjective will be the least bit difficult.  Having said that, I don't think we necessarily need to use the same language that the sports rags do.  Describing it neutrally should be sufficient for now.  I think Ghmyrtle's language is good.  On the other hand, let's not get too carried away by this.  With Slovenia and Algeria in the group, the likelihood of England not making it into the round of 16 is slight, and despite this admittedly terrible accident England could very well go on and do very well in the cup (although I'm not personally holding my breath).  So let's be careful to avoid recentism, which describing it as a "calamity" might be -- Green's mistake is unlikely to be the decisive factor that results in England's elimination, even if it feels that way to English fans right now. Eniagrom (talk) 00:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I am trying to have it neutral and agreeable. There are no changes except the last two sentences. So, how about this?
 * Green was selected as goalkeeper for the 2010 FIFA World Cup match between England and the United States on 12 June 2010. After England went into a 1-0 lead, Green failed to save a long-range shot taken by US midfielder Clint Dempsey in the 40th minute of the match, the ball bouncing off his gloves and over the goal line. ''The match ended in a 1-1 draw. Green was widely criticized for the mistake.
 * Thank you, all! -- 71.139.6.222 (talk) 00:54, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It really does seem these days in our postmodernist contemporary society, acquintance (or the end of) is marked by facebook, and notability is when you are mentioned on wikipedia.
 * I do believe there is notability in the same sense UK tabloids are already on the offensive lambasting Green for the fumble. Should England fail to qualify, Green would be the scapegoat the same way Beckham occasioned in '98. Let's try to keep the mention short and neutral. 110.175.10.155 (talk) 01:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

(outdent) I like 71.139.6.222's rewrite, and would support putting it in the article, for whatever my opinion is worth (likely very little). Eniagrom (talk) 01:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I also like 71.139.6.222's rewrite. Here's a source for "wide criticism": http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/news/green-blunder-hands-u-s-draw-with-england--fbintl_reu-soccerworldenglandus.html Kingnavland (talk) 04:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes there should be a paragraph about this game and Green's error but lets not get carried away ....'could be a career ender for Green'.....seriously???? How about some balance and mention his views and the save he made in the 2nd half from Jozy Altidore? The paragraph is about the game and not just one incident, isn't it? Plenty here http://www.whufc.com/articles/20100612/green-staying-strong_2236884_2069746
 * "Whom" would be proper, not "who". Also, I would recommend avoiding use of the word "infamy". It seems a bit sensationalist. Kansan (talk) 05:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

I have added a paragraph on the incident based mainly on Ghymrtle's text, plus mention of him being in the squad, which was previously not present. I've gone mainly with Ghymrtle's version as it specifically cites the source for the "complete calamity". Naturally, suggestions for modification are welcome. Oldelpaso (talk) 09:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Anuraagdoc, 13 June 2010
Please write about the lolly pop goal miss against USA in 2010 WC group match which cost them 1-1 draw against USA

Anuraagdoc (talk) 06:51, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ...Did you read the huge discussion over said subject above? Soxwon (talk) 08:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

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Edit request from Bevanbp, 13 June 2010
I request you change the international career section to include his mistake against the USA in the 2010 World Cup in South Africa on the 12th June 2010, when he saved the goal but the ball slipped out of his hand giving USA a goal and ultimately a draw for England. --Bevanbp (talk) 08:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Bevanbp (talk) 08:13, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read prior discussions before starting a new thread, the inclusion of this material has already been discussed above. Rodface (talk) 18:07, 13 June 2010 (UTC)