Talk:Robert H. Foglesong

Not the Doc we knew...
Wiki History is written by the victors, or in this case the people who didn't know the man. He appears to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Nothing about him diverting Med Evac flights so he can land "Ol' Triple 7" or how we wasted the tax payer's money painting buildings which where slated for demo... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.169.148 (talk) 05:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This seems to be a biased entry for Foglesong, primarily a badly written PR piece, more than an actual biography.

"Doc" somehow trives on bad PR -- probably because he doesn't know any better.

No mention of his "Combat Proud" programs, or any of the other useless, embarrassing queep he made USAFE deal with? Anyone who served under this man can attest to his total lack of leadership and bizarre fascination with himself, yet this bio reads like he's the best thing the USAF had since Robin Olds. Is Doc editing his own Wiki page? ScubaSteve2k1 04:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)ScubaSteve2k1

--- Doc probably is editing this stuff. There was a blurb added in April this year (and promply removed SOMEHOW) by somebody who had also served under his "leadership." It talked about his idiot pet projects at Ramstein and throughout USAFE, especially his COMBAT beautification projects, how he wasted AF funding and resources by flying his own F-16, and how much he was lothed by the troops.

'common terms and phrases'
I removed them all:

"Great Bulldog Nation"

"I fell in love with 480 knots."

"One State, One Team"

"Check Six"

"Thanks for all you do"

"Hey, I just got done flying (insert aircraft)"

"That was a real nice thing, I'm not gonna lie to you."

"L.T., you're fired".

Because they are not notable, and make the page read like a fanpage. --Adam Brink 15:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I also cut out a whole bunch of non-notable stuff which I don't think has a place in an encyclopedia.

''General Foglesong was also known throughout Europe for his "Combat Proud" program. At Osan Air Base, Korea, during 1994, when he served as the Wing Commander, he implemented operation "Wing Man," which included screenings of all-night movies at the base's movie theater during American holidays in order to comfort lonely service members who were unable to spend the holidays with their families.

''During Foglesong's tenure as the commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe (USAFE), he was well known throughout the military communities located in Europe that had access to the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service AFRTS stations, better known as AFN. The primary reason for Foglesong's widespread reputation was the airing of television commercials intended to "boost morale" and promote virtue among members under Foglesong's command. These airings, which were, and still are, well known and sometimes disliked by the majority of the individuals who were reluctantly exposed to them, were immediately discontinued as soon as Foglesong was replaced by his successor as commander of USAFE, General William T. Hobbins.

''Foglesong spent 33 years in public service. He has received many awards for his leadership. In addition, he has continued his education by attending professional military education schools as well as advanced civilian education forums. He is a member of several professional aviation organizations and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. His 56 publications cover a range of subjects, including technical and leadership topics. A graduate of West Virginia University, Foglesong was a member of Tau Beta Pi (President), Ranking Engineer Honorary on campus; Mountain, Ranking Men’s Honorary on campus, and numbers of other academic and leadership honoraries.

''He had responsibility for policy recommendations and implementation of policy that affected personnel, operations, infrastructure, and intra/inter governmental affairs for an organization of 358,000 uniformed members and 158,000 civilian employees. He was responsible for planning and programming for future strategies involving an annual budget of $90 billion. During the last portion of his career, he had daily interaction with members of Congress, the White House, and various other government officials.''

None of it is referenced, much of it is not notable, all of it seems quite over-blown.

A section titled "Strong Criticism From Rank and File Airmen" has been added. Feel free to insert some of your professional experiences you had under Foglesong's bizarre rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.181.220.120 (talk) 08:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

'assignments'
I have cut all of this:

== Assignments == 1. April 1972 - March 1973, student, undergraduate pilot training, Columbus Air Force Base, Miss.

2. August 1973 - June 1976, T-41 instructor pilot, 557th Flying Training Squadron, Peterson Field, Colo., and U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colo.

3. July 1976 - April 1977, Aide-De-Camp to the Commander, Air Forces Korea, 314th Air Division, Osan Air Base, South Korea

4. May 1977 - January 1979, AT-33 and EB-57 instructor pilot, flight examiner and assistant operations officer, 17th Defense Systems Evaluation Squadron, Malmstrom AFB, Mont.

5. February 1979 - January 1980, AT-33 instructor pilot and Commander, Detachment 1, 24th Air Defense Squadron, Malmstrom AFB, Mont.

6. February 1980 - December 1982, F-15 pilot and squadron scheduler, 9th Tactical Fighter Squadron; chief of quality assurance, 49th Tactical Fighter Wing; and Commander, 49th Component Repair Squadron, Holloman AFB, N.M.

7. January 1983 - May 1985, Special Assistant for Tactical Issues and Executive Officer for the Deputy Chief Of Staff For Research, Development and Acquisition, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

8. June 1985 - May 1987, Special Assistant to the Commander, and Chief, Combat Analysis Division, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley AFB, Va.

9. June 1987 - June 1988, F-16 pilot and Assistant Deputy Commander for Operations, 31st Tactical Fighter Wing, Homestead AFB, Fla.

10. July 1988 - June 1990, Chief of Staff of the Air Force Chair and Professor of Joint and Combined Warfare, National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.

11. July 1990 - February 1991, F-16 pilot and Chief of Maintenance, 347th Tactical Fighter Wing, Moody AFB, Ga.

12. February 1991 - March 1993, Director, Chief of Staff of the Air Force's Staff Group, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

13. April 1993 - December 1993, Commander, 14th Flying Training Wing, Columbus AFB, Miss.

14. January 1994 - November 1995, Commander, 51st Fighter Wing, Osan AB, South Korea

15. December 1995 - July 1997, Deputy Director for Politico-Military Affairs, the Joint Staff, Washington, D.C.

16. August 1997 - August 1999, Assistant to the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Washington, D.C.

17. September 1999 - August 2000, Commander, 12th Air Force and U.S. Southern Command Air Forces, Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz.

18. August 2000 - November 2001, Deputy Chief Of Staff for Air and Space Operations, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

19. November 2001 - August 2003, Vice Chief of Staff, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

20. August 2003 - December 2004, U.S. Air Forces in Europe; Commander, Allied Air Component Command Ramstein; and Air Component Commander, U.S. European Command, Ramstein AB, Germany

21. January 2005 - present, Commander, U.S. Air Forces in Europe; Commander, Allied Air Component Command Ramstein; Air Component Commander, U.S. European Command, Ramstein AB, Germany; and Director, Multinational Joint Air Power Competence Centre, Kalkar, Germany 

This is an encyclopedia, not a log book. Adam Brink (talk) 20:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

And this:

FLIGHT INFORMATION Rating: Command pilot Flight hours: More than 4,400 Aircraft flown: F-16, F-15, A-10, AT/T-38, AT/T-33, EB/B-57, T-41 and C-21

Too much detail. This is not a friggin log book! -- Adam Brink (talk) 20:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I have again cut all of the assignments. I strongly suspect that this article is being edited by General Foglesong. The list of assignments is too detailed for what should be a short article about a fairly unimportant military functionary. Adam Brink (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:03, 13 March 2010 (UTC).

Time at Mississippi State
I edited the page to include relevant information about how Dr. Foglesong's time at Mississippi State has been perceived by both students and faculty, which is quite negatively. I cited this with 4 different pages, two of which are facebook groups composed almost entirely of Mississippi State students where they have voiced their concerns with Dr. Foglesong. These changes were removed with the note that the citations did not provide support for the stated claims. If the comments on the groups were read, anybody could see that many students are in fact quite dissatisfied with his "leadership." In addition to the two facebook groups, I also linked to two news articles about how the faculty dislike his leadership and I know that the claims I made about that were backed up by those articles. I could change it back, but I don't feel like waging a war on wikipedia to make sure that the truth is heard. If we could come to some consensus about this, I would prefer that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.18.115.66 (talk) 01:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Whatever Ruby Hall resident. While it is understood that you have concerns about Robert Foglesong's actions, please remember, Wikipedia is not your livejournal. Don't use it merely as a tool to further your concerns about an individual or your opinions of somebody. It should only be used as a tool for pedagogical research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.139.243.157 (talk) 19:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I do have concerns about his actions but the reason I want to include them on here is because it is relevant to an understanding of his time here at MSU. I am not attempting to use this as my livejournal, I am merely attempting to make sure that there is an accurate representation of how he has performed his job. Just as it is fitting to note how widely loved George Washington (or any other leader) was, just as it is fitting to include information about how well a person performed in a certain position, I feel it is fitting to include how Dr. Foglesong's time at MSU has been perceived by the students and faculty.130.18.115.66 (talk) 01:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi. It would be nice if people signed in and signed their edits. (1) I am not that impressed by excerpting blogs and putting them in the article - that turns this into a popularity parade. If you can source statements properly you can use them. Are there any sourced statements detailing his performance at MSU? (2) Foglesong is not really notable. He aint no George Washington... He is an ex-general who did two years as president (or whatever) at MSU. We could just say that... --Adam Brink (talk) 10:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

It is now obvious Mr. Foglesong is editing his own page. There is no mention of the CFR thing, yet it keeps reappearing. Also, one link to a "Forbes" site is what he is using as proof he sits on those boards? I would expect to see websites of those corporations listing him holding a chair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.53.128.33 (talk) 22:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

CFR
I have cut the following out:

''==Council on Foreign Relations== He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.''

I have found no evidence for it. If you have some you can put it back.

--Adam Brink (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

He is mentioned nowhere on the CFR.org page. Even the cit used to support his membership goes to the Wiki page on the CFR and he is not listed there. Why is this still mentioned as though he is currently a member? I have no way of knowing if he ever WAS a member of the CFR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.53.128.33 (talk) 14:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why the CFR crap finds its way back in. Maybe Fox news is right, I should write my own page with all my accomplishments listed and my current status as the "Sexiest Man in the World (of all time!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.53.128.33 (talk) 20:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Like I said, if there is evidence for it, it can come back. This article is oddly contentious. I must say that I am also concerned that the subject of it is editing it. It would help if everyone signed their posts... --Adam Brink (talk) 09:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I am not a member, I just have firsthand knowledge of "Doc" and his personality. Very much like him to be guilty of hyperbole. If you take it out, he puts it back in. 131.53.128.33 (talk) 16:57, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

non-notable 'notable achievements'
I have cut the following section out: ''Notable Accomplishments - While USAFE Commander, Gen Foglesong became famous for his Armed Forces Network morale building PSAs. These PSAs used his now familiar catch phrase "Don't forget get to...check your six." These commercials were often filmed in front of his famous F-16 Fighting Falcon, nicknamed the "Triple Nickel."''  That isn't notable...  Just to re-cap:  Foglesong himself is not very notable - he is one of a large number of generals that the US has generated in the last century. If he merits an entry - and it is far from clear to me that he does - he merits a couple of sentences, nothing more. Even if he was notable, what is mentioned about him here would be trivia, and should be cut for that reason as well. --Adam Brink (talk) 15:21, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

''While at MSU, Foglesong provided numerous flyovers for Mississippi State Football games. Foglesong flew a PT-17 Stearman (a biplane similar to a crop duster) for the first time in his life over MSU's game versus Kentucky on October, 28 2006. Foglesong could occasionally be seen running wind sprints with the football team. While at MSU, Foglesong also was the lead singer for the band, Bark.'' More trivia  --Adam Brink (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

forum chatter abuse
I have removed this: ''While at USAFE his often erratic/egocentric behavior caused many in his direct chain of command to question the Air Force's ability to select and promote the most capable officers. .''

May be so, but forum chatter is not proper substantiation of a fact.

I have removed some more abuse. Alright, you all hate the guy. But share it with your therapist, or substantiate it with proper sources. --Adam Brink (talk) 10:35, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Saved the Daffodils my *%@!
He didn't save the daffodils! He had them dug up and destroyed the Crepe Myrtles at the sports complex! He also had the Art and Architecture Departments remove work visible outside their facilities. This article has so many inaccuracies that I'm sure it was written by Foglesong or his PR people. What fluff! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.115.105 (talk) 00:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Facilitites
Facilities is spelled wrong in the section After Retirement. Someone registered should fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.57.82 (talk) 22:22, 4 November 2014 (UTC)