Talk:Robert J. O'Neill

Point of Clarification - Matt Bissonnette
Bissonnette has never claimed credit for firing the fatal shots. If you read page 170 of 'No Easy Day' he makes it clear that Bin Laden had been shot in the head by the 'point man'. The exact quote is

So while he says the he did take his chance put some rounds in Bin Laden, he has never taken credit for firing the fatal shots, which is some text that I had to remove from this article. This information has also been repeated in his latest interviews. -Myopia123 (talk) 06:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Closure with 9/11 families
This day, Rob O'Neill was on FoxNews with Greta Van Susteren, along with about a dozen family members who lost loved ones on 9/11. He said that every day he receives correspondence from families that thank him for his service. I'll see if I can find some transcript later today or tomorrow. -- AstroU (talk) 00:01, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * So far, the Greta Van Susteren section of FoxNews.com has nothing on her 9/11 segment. Instead, much is covered on the Baltimore unrest. Maybe the FoxNews section, or her blog, will post the important transcript or video later. -- AstroU (talk) 14:59, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

June 2015
Robert O'Neill is a contributor on FoxNews and today discussed with Martha MacCallum the 2,300 Humvees captured by ISIS and used for suicide attacks. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Neptune Spear raid chronology
This edit caught my eye. The edit changed part of an assertion in the lead section which read "... during the raid on his Abbottabad compound on May 2, 2011." To give the date as May 1 instead. The supporting source cited says that bin Laden was killed "during a May 2011 raid" on the compound. This source, which gives a bit more detailed view of the chronology, says that the helicopters lifted off from Jalalabad Air Field "[s]hortly after eleven o’clock on the night of May 1st", that they entered Pakistani airspace 15 minutes later, describes the flight as "the ninety-minute helicopter flight", but is a bit murky about the exfiltration timeline. This source, which purports to give a detailed timeline, says that the helicopters left Jalalabad at 1430 EST on 1 May (2330 local time) and arrived back at Jalalabad at 1830 EST (0330 local time on 2 May).

I suggest that the lead section characterize the raid as having taken place on May 1-2, 2011, and that sources with timeline details (those mentioned above and/or others) be cited in support. I don't think this afrticle needs to go into details about the timeline of the raid. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:45, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 26 October 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) – Ammarpad (talk) 19:24, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Robert J. O'Neill (Navy SEAL) → Robert J. O'Neill – The Navy SEAL who shot Osama bin Ladin is the WP:Primary topic. The only other Robert J. O'Neill is a military historian, whose page was moved from Robert J. O'Neill to Robert O'Neill after a successful requested move closed this week. Prior to the move, people were viewing the Navy SEAL page 150 times more often. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 06:27, 26 October 2019 (UTC) —Relisting. OhKayeSierra (talk) 02:58, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. The military historian page was moved from 'Robert J. O'Neill' to 'Robert O'Neill (historian)', then 'Robert J. O'Neill' was redirected to the disambiguation page 'Robert O'Neill'.  The more compelling argument comes from looking at the Robert O'Neill disambiguation page, where Robert E. O'Neill is used in preference to Robert E. O'Neill (attorney). --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:49, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination and Ceyockey. Sole main title header bearing this exact name. No need for the parenthetical qualifier. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:58, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

BLP concern
The sentence in the lead section of this article reading, "O'Neill claims to have fired the shot(s) that killed Osama bin Laden during the raid on his Abbottabad compound on May 1, 2011." bothered me re WP:BLPSTYLE and WP:BLPBALANCE. I've probably read that sentence previously without commenting, but on reading it this morning I saw it as begging the inference that the claim might be bogus.

For now, I've just wikilinked the word claims there internally to the Death of bin Laden section of the article. That section links Death of Osama bin Laden as a main article. Even there, there seems to be waffling around a begged inference that the claim by O'Neil might be bogus in favor of what this source (cited with WP:linkrot in this and related articles) calls "apparent shaming". It takes some research in sources outside WP to begin to clarify that. The closes thing I've found to a clear assertion contrary to O'Neil's claims is in, starting around "... pushed past the lead SEAL". I don't see that source cited anywhere and, not being much of a wordsmith, I couldn't see how to smoothly weave that in as a clarification. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:11, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Having just read the article and it appears to be a WP:BLP1E article that is fluffed up with nothing particularly noteworthy about him in the article. Tempted to propose deletion as even the BLP1E appears to be a unconfirmed claim from the subject. As far as I can see the sentence about him in Death of Osama bin Laden is sufficient. Any thoughts on this? MilborneOne (talk) 09:27, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Despite the ~1000 daily page views I think you're right. The unconfirmed claim that he killed Bin Laden seems to be the sole basis for notability, so possibly a case of WP:ONEEVENT. PC78 (talk) 11:32, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I have added a proposed deletion tag to the article. MilborneOne (talk) 10:12, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

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 * Logo Naval Special Warfare Development Group.svg

Requested move 24 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No prospect of consensus to move. Andrewa (talk) 06:58, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Robert J. O'Neill → Robert O'Neill (Navy SEAL) – I know this article has been moved many times, but all of the reliable sources in the article (except the subject's own) refer to him as "Robert O'Neill" or occasionally "Rob O'Neill". The policy on article titles says that "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above." I've suggested a new target, but I'm not committed to that particulat parenthetical (though it's succinct and according to the article, "commonly known as Navy SEALs"); the template just required something be input. —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 18:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:NATURAL. Robert J. O'Neill is one common name. Common natural names are preferable to artificial parenthetical qualifiers whenever possible. Rob O'Neill, which already redirects here, is also acceptable, as is Robert O'Neill as he is the overwhelming WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (see |Robert_J._O%27Neill|Robert_E._O%27Neill|Robert_O%27Neill_(historian)|Robert_O%27Neill_(footballer)|Robert_Torrens_O%27Neill|Bob_O%27Neill pageviews). Station1 (talk) 10:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting that this page could replace the disambiguation page at Robert O'Neill IAW WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? If that's amenable, it makes sense.At WP:NATURAL it says, "Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title."  However, only 1/16 sources uses the middle initial (and it's a self-published source); I wouldn't call that .  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 16:09, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am suggesting that this article could be moved to Robert O'Neill since literally 99% of readers looking for a Robert O'Neill are looking for this one. That would necessitate moving the current dab page to Robert O'Neill (disambiguation). Alternatively, the dab page could stay where it is and this article moved to Rob O'Neill. That requires only reversing the current redirect. Robert J. O'Neill is probably third best, but he does use it on his own website, as well as Twitter, so even though it's least-used of the three alternatives, it still meets the requirements of WP:NATURAL as being preferable to a completely artificial disambiguator. Station1 (talk) 19:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I hadn't considered that this article could be the primary topic for Robert O'Neill, and then disambiguate at Robert O'Neill (disambiguation), but I trust your research into the matter. That proposal has my firm support.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 21:27, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It seems to me that this article meets both the short and long term tests there for the name with the middle initial. For the shortened form, Rob, my guess is that is also likely. For Robert O'Neill, my guess is that meeting the long term test has a short half-life. Those last two opinions go to those redirects,though, not to this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill)
 * I don't understand your objection. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC doesn't seem to say anything about parenthetical disambiguation?  As for Rob O'Neill and Robert O'Neill, I wasn't suggesting those (though Station1, above, might be) as targets.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 16:09, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry I was not clear, and now I'm not sure I understand your two bulleted responses/questions above. To clarify my response, I opined opposition to the name change because I think this page with the present title meets WP:PRIMARY in the short term and that will likely remain true in the long term. I remarked in passing about the others, not intending that as part of my direct response, saying that the current redirect here from Rob O'Neill looks OK for now and will likely remain so in the long term. On a second look, I see that Robert O'Neill is a disambiguation page with this article being the first-mentioned alternative; I think that is OK as is. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 17:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Closing comment: The now six redirects from the various former unambiguous names should make this article fairly easy to find, anyway! Andrewa (talk) 06:58, 2 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References error
I just restored a section that a vandal who is now blocked blanked earlier, and the section definitely has references but there is some problem that keeps them from showing. I don't know what the problem is, so does anyone know how to fix it? Green Dragon Pride (talk) 01:04, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources and and the prose were removed in two separate edits (respectively: & ).  I copied over the sources from an old version to fix the issue.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 01:22, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Wolf949 & BLP
The new account, like the blocked vandal , is unilaterally removing prose from the article, opposing all other editors. Wolf949 has invoked the the biographies of living persons policy saying  The policy page reads to say that we must be extremely conscious of WP:V and WP:RS, which the removed material is in full compliance. As for Wolf949's specific notes, Amber O'Neill expressed those noted concerns to a journalist who was publishing an article (cited herein) about the article subject. Before reinstating the removed prose, I am also asking for input from other contributers. —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 20:43, 30 August 2020 (UTC) How about "O'Neill married in March 2004$[4]$ and has at least two children, though he and his wife were legally separated by February 2013.$[6]$" Also, we'd remove the spouse's name from the infobox since we're not including it in the prose. —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 15:37, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose reinsertion - I'm not a policy wonk, but I would say that O'Neill's wife and children are low profile individuals notable only because of their association with him who (as far as I know, anyhow) have been covered in reliable sources without seeking such attention, and that they deserve presumption in favor of privacy. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:19, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I see no reason for a name or location. Something like "O'Neill was married in 2004 and has two children but is now separated" should be sufficient and acceptable. Station1 (talk) 23:06, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose reinsertion I agree with the above two comments. I'm leaning towards opposing reinsertion, mostly because the Esquire article mentions that the wife says she's thinking of changing her and her kids' names and "Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons." However, if others think it should be added back, I think 's suggestion sounds best, since they're low-profile individuals. - Whisperjanes (talk) 07:43, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean to opposed all editors as mentioned above. Thank you for putting the process in place. I agree that the infobox should cross-reference an update to remove the "Spouse(s)" from the infobox. Rather than starting a new talk section, I thought I'd mention that I noticed that the infobox "Awards" are not the same as listed in the article - two Silver Stars, four Bronze Star Medals,[9] a Joint Service Commendation Medal (with "V" device), three Presidential Unit Citations, and two Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals (with "V" device).[11] An additional note is that the newspaper source that mentioned the marriage was dated 2004. I'm guessing this would still make those children under age. If this is the case, I don't think the children should be mentioned again citing Wikipedia possibility of harm.Wolf949 (talk) 03:23, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What are your thoughts on the specific wording I suggested ?As for the awards in the infobox, infobox military person says to include "any notable awards or decorations the person received; exhaustive lists should be worked into the prose." Since consensus has determined that the awards of lesser precedence than the Silver Star aren't considerable enough for categorization (e.g. Categories for discussion/Log/2017 March 27), then that's a suitible bright line for infobox inclusion as well.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 17:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Edit to remove the spouse item in the infobox has been completed. I will look more at the awards as noted. Fox News doesn't seem to really be his "employer", but I don't know how to more accurately state that in the infobox. Wolf949 (talk) 16:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In addition to the infobox, I've replaced the personal information as above. Let me know if you have any questions about the awards.  I'm unbothered by removing Fox News as employer, and have expanded the occupation field duly.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 18:57, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:25, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Navy SEAL Robert O'Neill.jpg

"SEAL Team Six"
With regards to the recent edits of and : the predominance of sources in this article refer to the organization as SEAL Team Six, and the English Wikipedia's own article sits at SEAL Team Six, and so it is therefore our SOP to refer to the group as SEAL Team Six. The relevant policy is at WP:COMMONNAME. IAW the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, I have again reverted the undiscussed edits and have pointed interested parties here. —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 01:13, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Given they have continued to edit without discussing, I have warned Seiko888 and will take further measures if they continue to edit war in contravention of the above. —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 01:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Challenge Coin
On 7 September 2022 at 15:36 UTC, added prose about O'Neill's founding of a cryptocurrency, citing it to Fox Business. After thanking that editor for the addition, at 16:31 the same day, I formatted and consolidated the source, cut back on the promotion of O'Neill's product (without further sourcing), and expanded the article further.

About 2.5 hours later, and across five separate edits, an editor at the new account removed both the claims and the source, saying   The prose said nothing about "the first military crypto/token", but cited Maria Bartiromo and Fox Business accurately in saying that O'Neill founded the product in question. Lacking any reliable sourcing to the contrary that supports TrueCryptonian's otherwise unsupported claims, I have replaced what they removed (and pointed any interested editors here). —  Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 19:09, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * On August 7, 2022 Russ Davis posted a screenshot in the official Telegram channel about a donation made on August 4, 2022 to a company called GreenspoonMarder, claiming it has been made in the name of Challenge Coin.
 * The address depicted showed
 * 10504 ANGLER CT
 * ORLANDO, FL 32825
 * Which leads to the ChallengeCoin LLC that can be found here:
 * https: //search.sunbiz. org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=EntityName&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=CHALLENGECOIN%20L070001135710&aggregateId=flal-l07000113571-2f431089-f12a-43d8-aad9-ec9bdc17c69c&searchTerm=Challenge%20coin&listNameOrder=CHALLENGECOIN%20L070001135710
 * Neither of their names are registered under this LLC. Status Inactive and founded in 2007.
 * Also, the screenshots were deleted shortly after this matter was brought to attention, raising some questions as to who actually founded ChallengeCoin and why those information were deleted.
 * Also, to be precise, even if the two men in question did found this token, it is not a cryptocurrency, as it is not the native currency of an autonomous blockchain. It is only a token.
 * The research done by Fox Business or whoever mentioned it as the „first military“ crypto(not currency) is also wrong.
 * Considering the first „military“ crypto(token) to be a token that supports the military/veterans and/or has a military person/veteran on their team, there have been numerous that launched a cryptotoken in 2021 already. Some of which are still active projects.
 * As proof and just to name the first two, the BSC blockchain shows the creation of the first military supporting/lead token called Military Finance Token (MIL) on May 11, 2021.
 * Transaction Hash of token creation:
 * 0xcc129bd803c326d2930f44c93ded0ccf6381790e842ad5c34bd30f005a5ba628
 * Website: military.finance (Active)
 * Project Status: Active
 * The second military supporting/lead token was created on May 21, 2021 called Marines United Teufel Token (MUTT).
 * Transaction Hash on BSC Scan:
 * 0xb7e65b966a5c9e9f754cc370bd23a7913106ff48ab5b3dcfc54321dfc3489db1
 * Website: muttvet(dot)com/ (Inactive)
 * Project Status: Inactive
 * Hence, the CC claim to be the first military token is a wrong statement as well.
 * Please know the difference between tokens and currencies to not spread false information. TrueCryptonian (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This is original research, and not a reason to remove a reliable source and the prose it supports. I've again replaced the source and prose, though if you find a different reliable source to either support your claims, or contest Fox Business', you can share it on this talk page or try to incorporate it yourself.  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 02:00, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Apparently you are lacking the knowledge to verify blockchain related information.
 * The transaction hashes I provided are the one and only proof
 * >>>directly on the blockchain.<<<
 * Also, the coin does not represent a cryptocurrency, but a token.
 * Again, I request you to stop spreading false information. TrueCryptonian (talk) 22:55, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The claims that O'Neill founded a cryptocurrency are duly cited to Fox Business and Maria Bartiromo, as required by the verifiability policy. Your claims above are original research, and do not override cited sources.  If you feel that Fox Business & Maria Bartiromo shouldn't be accepted as sources, we have a noticeboard where those objections can be raised.  If you have reliable secondary sources that either contradict, elaborate upon, correct, or color the cited source, please provide them here (or in the article if you can).  Until such time, I have again replaced the cited information IAW the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.  I really encourage you to read the policies and guidelines that I've linked here (as well as&mdash;perhaps&mdash;the essay at Verifiability, not truth).  —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 04:24, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Personal Life
Regarding Robert J. O'Neil, the personal life section begins: "Born in Butte, Montana, on 10 April 1976, Robert J. O'Neill is the son of Tom O'Neill, Jim and Diane Johnson, and the brother of Tom O'Neill." The sentence is worded in such a way as to indicate Robert J. O'Neil has four parents:  Tom O'Neil, Jim and Diane  Johnson and the brother of Tom O'Neil. Could someone please revise that sentence? As written, it makes no sense, at least not to me. He is both the son and brother of Tom O'Neil? Please clarify. Vulcanisaplanet (talk) 15:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I've removed mention of the brother as too ancillary, and rephrased the sentence to clarify the three parents as listed by the cited source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_J._O%27Neill&diff=1196921152&oldid=1190534040 —   Fourthords  &#124; =Λ= &#124; 21:50, 18 January 2024 (UTC)