Talk:Robert Mugabe/Archive 8

Profile picture
The current profile picture is horizontally flipped, could we have it in the original aspect? Governor Jerjerrod (talk) 08:48, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Why, uniquely in the context of this article, has the chap we knew in the 1980s as "Lord Carrington" been transmuted into someone we are asked to accept as "Peter Carington" (sic)? This isn't reverse snobbery, though a bit of pedantry might come in handy all the same - one of the pillars of the the Carrington peerage was the financing of the Jamaica and other Caribbean slave economies, and the notion that its current possessor might be available to all of us under the familiar form of address used by his erstwhile political friends and allies is fairly dubious, to put it mildlyDelahays (talk) 15:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Remove a source please


This is a predatory open access publisher.

First and Second Vice-President
I think the info about Vice-Presidents serving under Mugabe should be modified to reflect the fact that there are First and Second Vice-Presidents of Zimbabwe. Otherwise the dates in the info box become confusing. Haage42 (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2017
Mugabe has been confined to his house 105.184.51.114 (talk) 12:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: The article is already being updated. If you don't have anything to add don't use this request again, it may be removed &thinsp;&mdash; Ammarpad (talk) 13:05, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Robert Mugabe's resignation
Mugabe's resignation was the best option else he would have spent his remaining lifetime behind bars Magnus Uriah Miracle (talk) 23:10, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Good Article?
How did this meet the criteria for "Good Article" when there are only about four (4) references, used repeatedly throughout, for the entire article? 148.177.1.212 (talk) 20:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The article uses seventeen sources throughout, not four. These sources include several biographies dedicated to Mugabe himself and a number of academic publications, appearing in peer-reviewed journals and edited volumes. This being the case, the anonymous IP's allegation is essentially baseless. It appears that their comment stems from an expectation from some readers that an article should be based on hundred of different press sources that can be freely accessed online; there are articles like that, and in some cases it is necessary as there are no other citations available, but generally these press sources are not the best material to use. Press articles usually only cover issues in a fleeting fashion and are sometimes sensationalistic. They lack the depth and level of understanding present in biographies and most academic sources; it is the latter that are therefore preferred as WP:Reliable sources at Wikipedia. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As the person who reviewed the GA, I would like to second Midnightblueowl's thoughts on the matter. Although basing an article on a single source should be avoided (and would make a GA review fail), the sources used here appear to be of excellent quality, even if a few are repeatedly used. Quality and not quantity. My name is not dave (talk/contribs) 14:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

"Forced out of office"
Yes, that my be the case in practice, but the military is at least pretending he's still the President. Until they make him resign (or in the unlikely event they exile or kill him) he should still be considered to be in office. 100.40.28.53 (talk) 09:41, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Deposition?
15th november 2017 Mugabe was arrested, but nobody confirmed his deposition. At the moment, he's still the President. Moxmarco (talk) 12:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Edit request for section "guerrilla war: 1975–79"
It is stated in the article that Mugabe met Ceaușescu in 1979, but the caption under the actual photo (you will see it when you enlarge the image) states that the meeting took place in 1976. If someone could try verifying and correcting this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.91.212.222 (talk) 14:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Jew Communist?
Antismitic canard->.."where he met a number of Jewish South African communists who introduced him to Marxist ideas.[29]" WIKIFAIL - In fact it was NOT Jews it was the Jesuits, as the text shows.69.29.212.227 (talk) 10:28, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * While it is true that the link between Jews and communism is often used as an anti-semitic canard by the far-right, it is nevertheless unequivocally the case that there was a strong Jewish component in the southern African communist movement of the period. In many parts of the world, including South Africa, the strong tradition of left-wing Jewish intellectualism coupled with a level of social marginalisation led many Jews to embrace Marxism. In this instance, the text specifies the truth of the matter - it was indeed Jewish South Africans who introduced Mugabe to Marxism. 12:21, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Don't see how religion is relevant here because presumably he'd have come into contact with lots of communists from different religions, unless it's something he specifically mentioned. Fourdots2 (talk) 13:10, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Here, "Jewish" refers to the ethno-cultural group rather than the religious community with which it is partly coterminous. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:37, 29 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The Catholic Church has had a long standing hate for communists, I strongly doubt it was Jesuits. ( SailingOn (talk) 23:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC) )

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2017
He is no longer president Change from President of Zimbabwe (Present) to till 2017 AnushPatel (talk) 15:11, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Not correct: Mugabe has been dismissed from his party but still holds his role as president. The most recent report is that he has been given an ultimatum to resign by Monday or be impeached Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 16:40, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

It has been announced on the news tonight (21 November 2017) that Mugabe has resigned. Vorbee (talk) 18:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

How many zimbabweans has Robert mugabe killed during 37 year rule
I was reading some articles, one called Genocide Watch and end genocide in Zimbabwe about the now resigned leader Robert Mugabe and the crimes against humanity he has been  responsible for since 1980, it said Robert Mugabe has been estimated to have directly and indirectly  killed 3-6 million, 1/3 of the population of Zimbabwe. Now that seems a bit high I was thinking hundreds of thousands I mean lots have died of disease famine and starvation as a result of his policies and actions, I mean how reliable is that figure to use ?. It has also been estimated between 1982 and 1985; at least 20,000 people, mostly Ndebele civilians, were killed by Mugabe's Fifth Brigade. Pursuing decolonization, which this article already states. I aware he has carried out terrible human rights abuses, and crimes against humanity in the last 37 years but could it be 3-6 million deaths shall I find these articles to see if they can be used as reliable sources, I mean we have estimates for the numbers of their own population other dictators have killed, off course we cannot be exact but I think these are quite reliable sources. ? Amy foster (talk) 22:54, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

some sources differ, one human rights group says hundred's of thousands have died due to deliberate starvation, there has also been political killings so it could be has high as 1 million, I don't think estimates like this are needed there is plenty on this article that lists his crimes against humanity and genocides. 217.42.186.248 (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Party affiliation in infobox
Mugabe was recalled as party leader, but he was not expelled as a member. Refer to the minutes of the party Special Session. The infobox should say "1986–present". 24.7.14.87 (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done –Ammarpad (talk) 08:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2017
X - "is a disgraceful Zimbabwean politician" Change to Y - "was a Zimbabwean politician"

REASON - the word "disgraceful" is unnecessary JG10PSU (talk) 18:05, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done –Ammarpad (talk) 18:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Edit request
Could someone please add the following under the article's wives and children section:

Mugabe's sons Robert Mugabe junior and his younger brother Bellarmine are known for posting their lavish lifestyle on social media, which has drawn accusations from Tendai Biti that they are wasting Zimbabwean taxpayers' money.

Edit request
Frankly, the frequent references to Rober Mugabe being a socialist yet 'adhering to conservative economic policies' are factually incorrect and are not portraying the Zimbabwe socialist development between 1980 to the early 2000's.

Twice is this mentioned: Once in the header section - "despite his Marxist rhetoric and professed desire for a socialist society—adhered largely to conservative economic policies." and again in the body under his prime minister section "Mugabe's government continued to make regular pronouncements about converting Zimbabwe into a socialist society, although did not take concrete steps in that direction".

Both these statements are factually incorrect. Under Mugabe, Zimbabwe massively expanded socialist policies such as health care, education, ownership of public enterprises and the complete disregard for private ownership of land. These qualifying statements after making mention of Mugabe's Marxist background and staunch belief in socialist policies is revisionist in nature and does not accurately reflect what is now the failing state of Zimbabwe. How can someone say that, however in the same sentence mention that Mugabe forcibly removed property rights from white landowners and distributed it to the native population.

In the other Wikipedia article on the Economic History of Zimbabwe, Wikipedia makes reference that "Initially the government followed a corporatist model with government management of the economy... the government propagated a whole range of new economic policies, introducing a minimum wage and virtually eliminating the right to fire workers. Total spending on education nearly tripled (from Z$227.6 million to Z$628.0 million), as did government spending on healthcare (from Z$66.4 million to Z$188.6 million), between 1979 and 1990. Expenditure on public-sector employment rose by 60%, and on the civil service by 12% per annum over the course of the 1980s. Central government expenditure tripled and increased its share from 32.5 percent of GDP in 1979 to 44.6% in 1989. Interest rates were artificially capped."

None of these policies are 'conservative' free market policies and are socialist in nature. In the 90's, Mugabe's government tried to implement some conservative economic controls over the economy to encourage job-creating growth by transferring control over prices from the state to the market, improving access to foreign exchange, reducing administrative controls over investment and employment decisions, and by reducing the fiscal deficit. This failed due to severe drought and international trade policies. Following in the 2000's, Mugabe's government forcibly repatriated white farming land (again, not a 'conservative policy') and caused the economic decline we see today.

It is a lie and missinformation to say that Mugabe adhered largely to conservative economic policies as if to paint Western Free Market principals over a failed state. Could Wikipedia please remove these qualifying statements as they are incorrect as the Mugabe's government did not 'adhere to conservative economic policies'.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2017
Remove the words "world health" at the beginning of the article, they are out of place and were probably added accidentally. 194.108.6.18 (talk) 09:16, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 09:27, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Infobox proposal
I think this article's infobox is too big. At the same time I wouldn't want to omit any information. After a little experimenting, I have two solutions to offer: version 1 and version 2. I'm partial to the first version, but I'm open to discussion. Thank you. Jay D. Easy (talk) 02:07, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The info-box is perfectly fine before you meddled with it. Just look at people like PM Theresa May who have 16 offices on their page, let alone Mugabe with barely 5. 213.205.242.94 (talk) 17:24, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Do not support the proposed changes. The previous info-box was perfectly sufficient and many important iterations were removed from your recent edits. You should always gain consensus before making drastic changes to the info-box. You have also removed valuable information such as the list of Deputy Leaders/Second Secretaries of the ZANU-PF Party, the ZANU/ZANU PF distinction in the Leader role; the specifics regarding Tsvangirai’s term date tenure and the “Zimbabwe Rhodesia” predecessor for example. I also object to the change regarding the political parties from the long variant to the shortened variant. Therefore I oppose the changes which you proposed (although you actually just uploaded your preference without even waiting for some comments from fellow users regarding the matter which many would appreciate) although I thank you for your constructive edits. I have therefore reverted until more comment and would appreciate not edit-warring from now - at a later date your variant 1 is implemented in some manner could you please not simply revert the whole thing but instead look at the edits closely regarding the list of deputies etc which were also removed. Thanks. JLo-Watson (talk) 22:38, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Note for improvement
This article contains a vast plethora of knowledge on former president Mugabe. The only recommendations I would suggest would be to speak more in depth on his undeniable persistent grip on power he did his very best to maintain and perhaps what type of man we conclude he is based on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rferguson ug (talk • contribs) 12:39, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

This entry makes Mugabe sound like a retired revolutionary when in fact he was a vicious dictator for many many years longer. Cbertozz (talk) 09:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Up-to-date
This article shows what an up-to-date encyclopedia Wikipedia is. It was announced on the news on September 6 2019 that Robert Mugabe had died, and already on that date the dates of Robert Mugabe had been put in. Vorbee (talk) 06:39, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Nkomo as Matabele
Nkomo was not Matabele tribe, he was Kalanga sub-tribe of the Shona, allied to the Matabele.

10:30, 6 September 2019 (UTC)~ Noel Ellis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noel Ellis (talk • contribs)

Edit of Died hospital details in Personal details of Info table
Right now the hospital name is Woodbridge Hospital, where as source article mentions Gleneagles hospital. Please either correct hospital name or correct source. Gudaas (talk) 11:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Corrected with new source. Thank you. -- CalDoesIt (talk) 12:11, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Heavily edited due to death
Hi all, Albeit when the template was placed on by other editors and was removed twice because it was not being heavily edited at the time, I am contemplating placing the following template on the page. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thank You!

Chickensarebleepssorryuncle (talk) 18:54, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2019
Mugabe died peacefully on 9 September 2019 as one of the African greatest, although also controversial. Joraimite (talk) 06:54, 6 September 2019 (UTC)


 * ❌ Please, describe clearly the change you want to make and why. --MarioGom (talk) 23:27, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2019
In the Gukurahundi section, Please correct the name of Ntabazindune, to the correct name, Ntabazinduna. Mbotsellasie (talk) 09:49, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Thanks! NiciVampireHeart 23:47, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2019
Please add a text about Mugabe finally being laid to rest. Please also add this link from CNN :

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/09/28/africa/zimbabwe-robert-mugabe-buried-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.se%2F&rm=1

Please add all of this under "Post-presidency" - "Illness and death".95.195.207.212 (talk) 10:17, 29 September 2019 (UTC) 95.195.207.212 (talk) 10:17, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done NiciVampireHeart 23:03, 29 September 2019 (UTC)