Talk:Robert Thomson (executive)

Mistake
I think i may have made a mistake in the move and editing, I am under the imprestion that its Robert William Thomson and not Robert Thomson. Joel M. 02:28, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

This person apparently emailed Jimbo to complain the title was wrong and that his name was Robert James Thomson, not Robert William Thomson so I've moved the article. Angela. 09:58, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Addition
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I'd like to add the following sentence to this article:


 * During Thomson's time as editor-in-chief, the Wall Street Journal rose to become #1 in circulation, with more than 2 million readers in 2009.

To mitigate conflict of interest issues, I ask that an editor please review and either give feedback and/or edit accordingly. NinaSpezz (talk) 19:36, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Number 1 in what sort of category?? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 18:45, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * After the paragraph that ends with "...The Times became 100% compact." in order to keep the Biography section in chronological order. NinaSpezz (talk) 18:52, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Declining as page is currently under a copyright investigation. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:52, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
 * If you would like to license the content, see Donating_copyrighted_materials - Yuhong (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The copyright investigation has concluded and the change has been implemented in the same paragraph. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:45, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Copyright violations
Currently, the article has a 58% confidence rating on the Copyvios check for the link shown on the template. Please comply the instructions and do not remove the template until the situation has been resolved. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:37, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Additions
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson, I'd like to propose the following updates and additions to the article. To mitigate conflict of interest issues, I ask that an editor please review and either give feedback and/or edit accordingly. NinaSpezz (talk) 15:00, 25 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Add back middle name - Thomson's full name is Robert James Dell'Oro Thomson. Dell'Oro was removed as could not be verified. However, this article includes full name.


 * Relocate 1st sentence in "Biography" section to an "Early life and education" section to bring section headings more in line with typical BLP layout.


 * Rename "Biography" section to "Career"


 * Create "Personal life" section" and relocate sentence beginning with "Thomson is married to Wang Ping..." to that section.


 * Add to the beginning of Career section:

Thomson began his journalistic career as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun), working his way up the ranks. At the age of 24, he became the Beijing correspondent for the Financial Times and The Sydney Morning Herald, and four years later moved to Tokyo as a correspondent for the Financial Times. He was the FT's Foreign News Editor in 1994, and in 1996 became editor of the Weekend FT. He later oversaw the launch of How To Spend It magazine and the Weekend FT became the fastest growing paper in the UK market.

In 1998, Thomson moved to New York City to become the managing editor of the FT's U.S. edition. During his four-year tenure, FT.com was launched in the U.S., and the paper tripled U.S. sales to nearly 150,000.

In 2002, Thomson became editor of London’s The Times, owned by Rupert Murdoch.


 * Add after "Under Thomson, The Times paid more attention to international politics, business, financial markets and sport. In 2003, The Times launched a compact edition alongside the broadsheet format and one year later on 1 November 2004 The Times became 100% compact.":

He launched The Game, a football section and Bricks & Mortar, a property supplement. In addition, he launched Luxx magazine. Under Thomson’s editorship, the monthly audience of The Times Online grew from less than 1 million to nearly 13 million.

After acquiring The Wall Street Journal in 2007, Murdoch appointed Thomson publisher. The following year Thomson would assume the role of managing editor of the Journal and editor-in-chief of the Dow Jones & Company. The Journal's circulation rose to more than 2 million in 2008, making it America’s largest newspaper at a time of an industry-wide decline in circulation.


 * Add after "Robert Thomson was given an honorary doctorate and was a keynote speaker at RMIT University's Dec 2010 graduation.":

Thomson become Chief Executive of News Corp in 2013 when News Corporation officially split and spun off its newspaper and publishing operations into News Corp.


 * Thanks for using the talk-page to request changes, . In the normal way, an edit request of more than a few sentences is unlikely to be accepted; as you will understand, that is partly to encourage COI editors to be concise. To specifics:
 * The source you suggest we use for his additional middle name (a) is a marketing publication (so inherently untrustworthy); (b) is too new to have established any reputation for fact-checking; (c) almost certainly copied his name from us at the same time that it copied his picture. We'd require a solid source clearly and definitively independent of the subject; something like, say, the Library of Congress – which, however, lists him only as "Thomson, Robert", as does every other library. What is our source for the "James"? And while we're at it, what is our source for the date of birth in our article? VIAF gives only the year.
 * As for the rest of your proposed content, I skimmed through it. My eye stopped at this "During his four-year tenure, FT.com was launched in the U.S.,[6] and the paper tripled U.S. sales to nearly 150,000". This is precisely the kind of specious or fallacious argument we are used to seeing in promotional biographies – "x happened while he was there, ergo he brought about x". I accept that the same considerations apply to the unreferenced content about the downgrading of the format of the paper, which I'll remove in a moment.
 * In general, it's probably better to let this page develop in the ordinary Wikipedia way, with unbiased volunteer editors making changes as and when they feel like it. If you insist on trying to interfere with that process, please include request edit (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) in any future request, and please, for pity's sake, make it brief. Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:32, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Expand career
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson, I'd like to propose the following additions to the article. To mitigate conflict of interest issues, I ask that an editor please review and either give feedback and/or edit accordingly. NinaSpezz (talk) 16:02, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Following recent edits and feedback on previous request above, breaking request into shorter requests. Would like to rename "Work" section to "Career" and add:

Thomson began his journalistic career as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun), working his way up the ranks. At the age of 24, he became the Beijing correspondent for the Financial Times and The Sydney Morning Herald, and four years later moved to Tokyo as a correspondent for the Financial Times. He was the FT's Foreign News Editor in 1994, and in 1996 became editor of the Weekend FT. He later oversaw the launch of How To Spend It magazine and the Weekend FT became the fastest growing paper in the UK market.

In 1998, Thomson moved to New York City to become the managing editor of the FT's U.S. edition. During his four-year tenure, FT.com was launched in the U.S., and the paper tripled U.S. sales to nearly 150,000.

In 2002, Thomson became editor of London’s The Times, owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Reply quote box with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 29-MAY-2018
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, please open a new edit request. Thank you!  .  spinten do    17:19, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks for your time and attention on this. Could use a bit more clarification on citing of encyclopedias, Encyclopedia Britannica in this case. My understanding according to WP:RSPRIMARY is that encyclopedias, with the exception of Wikipedia, are reputable tertiary sources. And while Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources, tertiary sources may be cited. NinaSpezz (talk) 16:09, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. Reliable tertiary sources can be helpful in (1) providing broad summaries of topics that involve many primary  and  secondary sources; and also may be helpful in (2) evaluating due weight, especially when primary or secondary sources contradict each other . I don't see either of those situations in the case of the Robert Thomson article, where the sources given are all primary sources. In the four instances from your edit request where you wanted to use an encyclopedia, the nature of the sentence's individual claim statements either prevented this (as in example No. #4, below) or were to be better sourced elsewhere (as in example No's. #1-3, below):


 * 1) "In 2002, Thomson became editor of London’s The Times, owned by Rupert Murdoch."
 * 2) "He was the FT's Foreign News Editor in 1994, and in 1996 became editor of the Weekend FT."
 * 3) "In 1998, Thomson moved to New York City to become the managing editor of the FT's U.S. edition."
 * 4) Claims of employment such as these statements underlined in orange are easily and more reliably sourced by the institutions in question. As the original provider to the subject of payroll, tax information, benefits etc., the employer was and still is the most intimately knowledgeable source on the subject's employment, having access to when the subject started working and for how long and in what positions. The best way to reference these statements would be to have the employer as verification of the actual employment while the encyclopedia is perfectly capable of verifying just the dates of employment.
 * 5) "Thomson began his journalistic career as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun), working his way up the ranks."
 * 6) Encyclopedia's are good for dates but this part of the claim statement underlined in red makes a claim as to the subject's proficiency/speed/ability/adaptability at advancing through varying positions of employment, a claim that the encyclopedia would not be expected to have access to, given the tertiary nature of the publication.  spintendo   19:30, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Revised request
I have revised my previous request based on feedback (above). Please note I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson, I'm proposing the following additions to the article. To mitigate conflict of interest issues, I ask that an editor please review and either give feedback and/or edit accordingly.

Would like to change "Work" section to "Career" and add the following to the beginning of that section:

Thomson began his journalistic career in 1979 as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun). In 1983, he became senior feature writer for the The Sydney Morning Herald and two years later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times (FT). In 1990, he co-authored The Chinese Army: An Illustrated History from The Long March to Tiananmen Square.

Thomson then relocated to Toyko to become full-time correspondent for the FT. He was appointed FT’s Foreign News Editor in 1994 and in 1996 became editor of FT’s weekend edition, which would become the fasted-growing paper in the UK a year later.

In 1998, Thomson moved to New York to become U.S. managing editor of the FT. Over the next four years, FT.com launched in the U.S., and U.S. sales tripled to nearly 150,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NinaSpezz (talk • contribs) 16:34, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Reply to edit request 23-JUN-2018
Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath each quote, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes at the bottom of the quote box for additional information on each request. It should be noted that much of this information is taken from the following Observer piece: The subject's Wikipedia article ought not to become just a mirror of the information stated in this one reference. If this information was fact checked by the Observer, then it must have come from somewhere. Reporting on these dates of employment from many different organizations is asking too much for this one reference to do. Thus, in areas where additional clarification was requested, please be sure to provide the suggested references from those publications. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, please open a new edit request. Thank you!  spintendo   14:05, 23 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I have used a variety of reliable secondary sources to support employment and dates, using the Observer article only for the year on the copyboy position at Sydney Morning Herald (the position itself is also supported by the Britannica citation). The New Yorker, New York Magazine, and Sydney Morning Herald are also used to support other positions and dates, so I'm confused by the implication the Observer article is asked to do all the fact checking on various positions and dates.


 * I am unaware of a Wikipedia content guideline suggesting the employer itself must provide verification for employment and dates for a BLP when several publications known for their fact checking also support positions held and dates in question. And how would the employer provide this verification to Wikipedia? What would be satisfactory here before I open a new request? NinaSpezz (talk) 15:12, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Reply 26-JUN-2018
Thank you for your reply. I'm happy to go over your proposed text once again to highlight the issue areas.

Proposed text
Thomson began his journalistic career in 1979 as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun).[1][2]

In 1983, he became senior feature writer for the The Sydney Morning Herald and two years later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times (FT).[3]

In 1990, he co-authored The Chinese Army: An Illustrated History from The Long March to Tiananmen Square.[4][5]

Thomson then relocated to Toyko to become full-time correspondent for the FT.

He was appointed FT’s Foreign News Editor in 1994 and in 1996 became editor of FT’s weekend edition, which would become the fasted-growing paper in the UK a year later.[6][3]

In 1998, Thomson moved to New York to become U.S. managing editor of the FT.[3]

Over the next four years, FT.com launched in the U.S.,[7] and U.S. sales tripled to nearly 150,000.[1]

Discussion of "proposed text"
Now I understand that we are dealing with very short sentences here, so the ability to paraphrase the material should not be so difficult. But I'm placed in a bind here if it is the New Yorker source that you insist upon using. Because then the text must be either placed in your own words, or given quotation marks and attributed in the text to that publication's author (example: According to so and so of the New Yorker "This is what happened.") Please advise on how you would like to proceed. Thank you!  spintendo   02:10, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Again, thank you for your considerable time and attention on this. I have responded to each comment above and would be happy to post a new request if we can come to an agreement on the paraphrasing issue. NinaSpezz (talk) 14:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I dont see where the sources are for these statements. In my copying of them I neglected to carry over the references. Go ahead and resubmit a new request with the references added. Claims of employment are best coming from the publication that the subject worked at. The references shouldn't come from an interview or any other source aligned with the subject. I see his employment history as the following:


 * 1) The Herald
 * 2) SMH
 * FT
 * I think mentioning each new publication that the subject joined is germane. By my count that would be three mentions (3). A transfer or a new position within the same company is not really a new job. It's still working for the same employer. As far as the book written by the subject, if it were a book written about modern-day journalism in China, I can see how that would be germane to the article, seeing as how he was a journalist in China. If it's a history book, then I don't think so – unless he was also a historian in China. If it's a historical book about journalism in China, then we'll have to see, maybe that will work. Please advise.  spintendo   22:13, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Early Career
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I'd like to add the below sentence to the beginning of the "Career" section. I've included four references to demonstrate this is a well-documented fact supported by a variety of sources over time, but I do not expect all four are necessary for inclusion in the Wikipedia article. NinaSpezz (talk) 14:40, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Thomson began his journalistic career in 1979 as a copyboy at The Herald in Melbourne (now the Herald Sun).

Reply 16-JUL-2018
 spintendo   16:18, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Sydney Morning Herald & Financial Times
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I'd like to add the below as the second sentence in the "Career" section. I've included several references to demonstrate the positions held at each publication are well-documented facts supported by a variety of sources over time, some of which are already used in the article, but I do not expect all are necessary for inclusion. NinaSpezz (talk) 15:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC)


 * In 1983, he became senior feature writer for The Sydney Morning Herald     and two years later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times (FT).

✅ used ref 1 &7 (combined) --Danski454 (talk) 16:38, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Expand career section
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I'd like to add the content below to the "Career" section after the sentence ending in "Financial Times". I've included several references to demonstrate the different positions held at different editions within the Financial Times are well-documented facts supported by a variety of sources over time, some of which are already used in the article, but I do not expect all are necessary for inclusion. NinaSpezz (talk) 20:44, 17 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Thomson then relocated to Toyko to become full-time correspondent for the Financial Times.  Thomson was appointed the Financial Times Foreign News Editor in 1994   and in 1996 became editor of the Financial Times weekend edition.


 * In 1998, Thomson moved to New York to become U.S. managing editor of the Financial Times.

Reply 17-JUL-2019
Regards,  Spintendo  01:54, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) This information was previously removed by.
 * 2) The first sentence does not give a date.
 * 3) The second compound sentence's first part Thomson was appointed the Financial Times Foreign News Editor in 1994 needs only the New Yorker reference.
 * 4) The second compound sentence's second part in 1996 became editor of the Financial Times weekend edition is not verified by any of the provided sources.
 * 5) The third sentence In 1998, Thomson moved to New York to become U.S. managing editor of the Financial Times is not verified by the provided sources (i.e., In 1998, Thomson was given the reins of the recently launched US edition, in that "given the reins" does not indicate a position; and the Arango source does not include the quote parameter).

Reply 18-JUL-2019
Based on the feedback above, I have revised this request to add the following content to the "Career" section after the sentence ending in "Financial Times". I am aware this information was previously removed. However, the reason given for the removal was unsourced content.

Please note a year is not provided for the relocation to Tokyo, Japan because the three citations provided that verify a move do not give a date, but do place the move and position as having occurred between other career milestones. NinaSpezz (talk) 13:43, 18 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Thomson then relocated to Toyko to become full-time correspondent for the Financial Times.  Thomson was appointed the Financial Times foreign news editor in 1994 and in 1996 became editor of the Financial Times weekend edition.


 * In 1998, Thomson moved to New York to become U.S. managing editor of the Financial Times.

Reply 18-JUL-2019
Regards, Spintendo  14:39, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The claim regarding relocating to Tokyo was not added, as it conflicts with the prior claim two years later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times. "As well as the Financial Times" does not clarify if this is the same position at the Financial Times in Tokyo, because the "Beijing" correspondent could very well have worked out of Tokyo — as correspondents are not necessarily attached to the exact city specified — and the claim does not state "as well as for the Financial Times" which would have more definatively placed them in Beijing (i.e., became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as for the Financial Times.) There is no surety without dates.

The Judges Book
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I would like to add just after the sentence that ends with "...later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times.":


 * While at Sydney Morning Herald, Thomson wrote a series on Australian judges, which was published as a book in 1987, The Judges: A Portrait of an Australian Judiciary.

NinaSpezz (talk) 16:58, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

your edit request has been implemnted Trains2050 (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Tokyo Correspondent + Citation Needed
I work for Rubenstein and on behalf of Robert Thomson I would like to add the following just after the sentence that ends with "...later became Beijing correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald as well as the Financial Times."


 * Thomson then became a Tokyo correspondent for the Financial Times in 1989.

In addition, I'd like to suggest the following citations to address the "citation needed" tag on the page following "In May 2008 he was appointed managing editor of the Wall Street Journal, having previously been the editor of The Times."

NinaSpezz (talk) 17:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I made these changes. I did not use all of the suggested sources. For the WSJ position I added a Bloomberg article. Thanks.DesertDana (talk) 20:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)