Talk:Robin Spielberg

Self Promotion Alert
Hello, The Robin Spielberg page is a new page. I welcome suggestions for its improvement. I will act quickly on edits and suggestions. Spobsmusic (talk) 20:13, 25 June 2010 (UTC) Hello Robin Spielberg. Stop self-promoting.Fatpedro (talk) 17:54, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * This page should have been deleted long ago as self-promotion and advertising. Today ad agencies have agreed to stop.  Whoever is Robin Spielberg's promoter should take heed. http://www.businessinsider.com/pr-agencies-agree-to-stop-wikipedia-edits-2014-6
 * You have already taken up the page to AfD, and it was kept. Please stop removing information, if you do not want to be blocked from editing.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:12, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Popularity in Korea
It would be great if people could start discussing issues on the talk page rather than just hacking chunks out of the article. This source states "She has performed three concert tours through South Korea and was just invited back for a third visit this coming March". This would suggest some popularity in that country. --Michig (talk) 11:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The "citation needed" tag needs to stay until it is reliably sourced - the additional source above lends credence and perhaps we could use her autobiography here. The claim doesn't seem to be problematic or startling. --Pete (talk) 18:33, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Given that we have a source stating that she has toured South Korea several times, perhaps it would be better to reword it to that effect. I don't really doubt that her track was used in the Korean TV series but I haven't found an independent source yet. --Michig (talk) 18:40, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Can someone explain why the Ocala Star-Banner is not a reliable source? We generally treat newspapers as RS's, though not being in the US I am not familiar with this publication. The article in question includes "In April, she plans to perform in Korea for the third time. She has a loyal following in Korea, she said, after her improvisation of Pachelbel’s “Canon in D” - a bonus track on “Dreaming of Summer” - was used, without her permission, on a Korean TV show. The song became popular, as did the show." Last time I looked Korea was in Asia, so in my book the article does mention Asia, albeit based on information supplied by the subject. --Michig (talk) 19:09, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Ocala is a fairly small town, this is a local newspaper with a circulation of 50,000, fine for local stuff but not for national or international. And although Korea is in Asia, being famous in Korea is not the same thing as being famous in Asia, anymore than being famous in Florida would be the same thing as being famous in North America. There's literally a huge difference. I guess we can state that she says she has a loyal following in Korea, but we can't state it as a fact. Dougweller (talk) 19:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * So it is a reliable source as such but the concern is its local scope. As far as I am aware there was never any mention in the article of being famous in Asia, just popular. A small copyedit would perhaps have sufficed to make it more specific. I would be happy to simply leave it as saying that she has toured there until other sources are found. --Michig (talk) 20:28, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Just stick with what the source claims. Being popular in Korea - which one? - means she's popular in a part of Asia, not the whole vast continent. And I wonder about how popular she actually is there. Tickertape parades down Seoul's main street or she sold a few CDs and got a few nice reviews on Amazon? --Pete (talk) 20:59, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Record sales
This may be due to my lack of knowledge of the music biz, but I'm troubled by the article's discussion of her cd sales. She's released over a dozen records with sales in the hundreds thousands but SoundScan only reports 1800 for the early ones? And since 2000 she has been with the label that she started herself. This does not seem to meet notability. Her article rests on her international touring which is already a little weak and her discography and commercial success which seems weak to me. The rest is about her early stage activities and her only book which is a memoir published this year. B Hastings (talk) 17:57, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree and also much of the article is about growing up doing theatre which has nothing to do with a music "career."  Her music does not speak for itself.Balloftwine (talk) 04:03, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Not allowed to delete
Why isn't anyone allowed to delete anything anymore?Balloftwine (talk) 00:37, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Good to see the talk page is getting some use now. Let's discuss controversial edits and see if we can get a consensus, rather than just edit-warring, hey? --Pete (talk) 03:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine but don't keep undoing my edits. I am allowed to edit for relevant reasons.Fatpedro (talk) 03:24, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course. And your specific reasons are...? --Pete (talk) 03:31, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The article isn't protected - yet. Edit-warring will lead to protection or even blocks (not by me of course since I'm involved. Dougweller (talk) 10:37, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Specifically I see Fatpedro has been correctly warned for 3RR (which he had violated before the warning I think). Note that 3RR is not an entitlement. Dougweller (talk) 10:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think he had one more shot before the line was crossed. Not totally opposed to removing puffery, but in the circumstances I think these edits need to be discussed rather than edit-warred through edit summaries. Let's work through wikiprocess and consensus. Over to you, Fatpedro! --Pete (talk) 11:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Celebrity Artist
Subject is editing her own text to call herself a "celebrity artist." Nobody else is adding to the site but Robin Spielberg. This is not encyclopedic but propaganda.Fatpedro (talk) 17:53, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I am about to delete the following three words "national celebrity artist" from the following sentence. "She is a national celebrity artist spokesperson for the American Music Therapy" because "those three words are not measurable or encyclopedic." Does anyone mind?Fatpedro (talk) 11:10, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * They are certainly measurable on a Google search for that phrase. Perhaps it's a specific term used by AMT for their spokesfolk? --Pete (talk) 11:38, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you override me on this. I will delete "celebrity artist" in a few minutes.Fatpedro (talk) 11:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Whether deleting that is a good idea or not, I will report you if you continue to delete anything. You've been warned already. Dougweller (talk) 12:33, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I am happy to wait 24 hours; that does not change the fact of the puffery.Fatpedro (talk) 13:23, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You should go and read WP:3RR and see how the noticeboard operates. Three reverts in 24 hours is not a given - establish a history and one can be blocked for less in a day or the same in a week. It's the desire to edit-war rather than coöperate with others that is the behaviour attracting sanctions. --Pete (talk) 17:08, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I know how it works but it seems that nobody is engaging on the questions I raise, which is puffery. YOU are not cooperating. Fatpedro (talk) 17:11, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You mentioned a certain phrase and I googled it, raising the probability that it's not just a random selection of words. We could explore that further. Together. --Pete (talk) 17:46, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "celebrity" does not mean anything. "celebrity artist" does not mean anything.  They should be deleted.  That is all.Fatpedro (talk) 17:51, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Robin Spielberg has been an active artist advocate for AMTA since 2001, serving in the position of "Celebrity Artist Spokesperson." Over the years, she has met with dozens of music therapists in nursing care facilities, community centers, hospitals, universities and performing arts centers to help educate both professional medical personnel and the general public about the benefits of music therapy. Robin will perform a delightful program of enchanting pieces for solo piano from her vast repertoire of popular American melodies and original favorites. Known for her expressive style and tales from the bench, she will treat the conference audience to select excerpts from her brand new memoir, "Naked on the Bench: My Adventures in Pianoland" during this performance. Robin will also be presenting a special "For Students Only" Session entitled: "Musical Intention: Conveying Emotion through Song."
 * The phrase seems to be used to denote a position within American Music Therapy, which is a reasonably notable organisation, and I suggest that the use of "American" in its title indicates a "national" focus, What's the problem? We Australians describe Quentin Bryce as Chief Scout because she holds that named position, even if she doesn't go actively grubbing around in the scrub pulling wings off butterflies and tying them back on with half-hitches. --Pete (talk) 18:07, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

AfD Cleanup
Article is currently in AfD and the point was made that the WP:PUFF in this article makes it difficult to give an objective !vote on notability. It's been several days and no real cleanup has been made, so I am attempting that here. Basically, I am discarding all unsupported text and all text supported only by citations from websites, local news outlets that seem to announce performance dates, and sources with only a trivial reference to Spielberg. I think the Billboard source is important, as is the NYT source because of their authority. Are these enough to demonstrate notability? Agricola44 (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC).
 * Let the AfD decide that. As it was nearly due for close, I have relisted it to give time for people to consider the revised version. JohnCD (talk) 10:33, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Robin Spielberg was a founding member of the Atlantic Theater Company along with William H. Macy and David Mamet and others, which is confirmed on the Company's website. Why did you remove this fact from the article? It isn't 'puff' just because a few famous people are mentioned, and it means that later mentions of the company lack context. --Michig (talk) 21:26, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Help request from article subject
Robin Spielberg here. I just noticed a lot of activity on this Wiki page and thought I'd write here to see if I could be of some help. I just came back from the American Music Therapy conference in Jacksonville, FL. I did not name myself a "celebrity" artist spokesperson for AMTA. That is the term used by the American Music Therapy Association. So that is the official title. Here is a reference AMTA uses http://www.musictherapy.org/celebrity_spokesperson_robin_spielberg_promotes_music_therapy/ I hope that helps.

As far as number of CDs sold...in the early 1990's a record company by the name of North Star Music was one of the first record companies to sell in non-traditional markets, meaning they did not offer their recordings in music stores like Tower Records, Sam Goody etc. They sold music in book stores, gift shops and independently run stores. It was in these stores that they sold millions and millions of recordings by instrumental artists. Eventually they began doing business with Borders Books & Music, but for the most part, non of their sales went through the traditional "Sound Scan system"--the system by which Billboard tracked record sales (and still does). North Star estimated that they sold approximately 300,000 Robin Spielberg recordings, but now with iTunes downloads and the direct-to-consumer sales from concerts and the web site etc. we estimate we are closer to 1 million sold. I understand you cannot document that in the Wiki page, but this at least explains the Soundscan issue. Billboard Magazine wrote about it at one point. I believe the article is still posted on my web site under "press" at robinspielberg.com

Dentsu in Japan reissued A WINTER'S SONATA three years ago as a deluxe DVD set and sent me a copy. I have it here. Perhaps I can photograph that and send it your way so you can see that my music is indeed on this popular Asian drama? It is distributed by Sony/Asia. My tours in Korea were sponsored by KT Telecom and Musicphil. I have toured Korea three times and have all the contracts and programs to prove it. How best to get that to Wiki? . Can you advise on that? If not, feel free to delete the concert information, although that would be a shame. It is an important part of my career.

Lastly, my book was omitted from this page and I am hoping someone here in the Wiki community can put that back. The book was reviewed by the Kirkus Review (review here: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/search/?q=robin+spielberg&t=all) Kirkus, along with Publishers Weekly is a leading source of indie book reviews.I have been invited to talk on NPR stations in Chicago, Jacksonville FL, Bethelehm, PA, WYPR Maryland and on Sirius XM to talk about the book. All of these interviews are posted online here: http://www.robinspielberg.com/sample-page/press/ You can actually listen to the podcasts on this site. It is not "puffery" that the book was mentioned on my Wiki page. That is ludicrous. It is available in all stores and I am just completing a 25-city tour with the book! It is offensive that someone haphazardly took this important piece of information down. Many thanks for the help of responsible Wiki volunteers. 173.163.148.25 (talk) 05:42, 28 November 2013 (UTC)Robin Spielberg
 * Closed help request. The reason the book appears to have been removed is due to that we don't provide an extensive list of books released by every person; Only if they become notable. -- Mdann 52   talk to me!  13:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In a WP:BLP, a memoir by the article's subject is a useful reference. The subject apparently talks about being stalked and I can see evidence for that here. Using Wikipedia as a means of online harassment and bullying is not what we're here for. A little grace and thought, please. --Pete (talk) 21:35, 2 December 2013 (UTC)