Talk:Robin Williams/Archive 2

Year of birth
Robin Williams was born in 1951. That's a fact, as he celebrated his 50th birthday in the summer of 2001 and said many times this year (for example, during his "working on material" shows in San Francisco this past may) that he's 55 and will turn 56 this july. IMDB as well as his fansite that's filled with official information has the correct date/year listed as well.- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jones 8842 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The article says 1951 at the moment. For what it's worth, IMDB is nto considered a reliable source here, it is often accurate, but WP:RS/IMDB has more info on this point.  Best, --j⚛e deckertalk 00:20, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Please change Robin Williams' place of birth from Chicago, Illinois, to Scotland. He states Scotland as his place of birth in an interview aired on CBC in 1978. Link: http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/arts-entertainment/humour/laughs-from-the-past/robin-williams-freestyles-on-90-minutes-live.html.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bonnert (talk • contribs) 00:41, 12 August 2014‎ (UTC)
 * ❌. He was joking. It even says so on the page you cited, if you click on the "Did you know?" tab below the video. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Re: Recent passing of Robin Williams:

May wish to add a relevant New York Times reference =>

< ref name="NYT-20140811">

In any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Drbogdan (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 00:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Thank you for your comments - all ok afaik atm - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:52, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Please change Robin Williams' place of birth from Chicago, Illinois, to Scotland. He states Scotland as his place of birth in an interview aired on CBC in 1978. Link: http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/arts-entertainment/humour/laughs-from-the-past/robin-williams-freestyles-on-90-minutes-live.html.Bonnert (talk) 00:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Bonnert (talk) 00:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌. He was joking. It even says so on the page you cited, if you click on the "Did you know?" tab below the video. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Can someone please correct Steve Martin's tweet?
It says "can not be stunned" when it should be "can not be more stunned" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.195.253.25 (talk • contribs) 00:47, 12 August 2014‎ (UTC)


 * ✅ WikiWinters (talk) 00:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2014
The Steve Martin tweet quote at the bottom of the article is wrong. I should read "I could not be more stunned by the loss of Robin Williams, mensch, great talent, acting partner, genuine soul." 76.125.104.228 (talk) 00:53, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It has been correct since your request. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Under "Stand Up Career" the following should be changed: Williams did a number of stand-up comedy tours, beginning in the early 1970s. A better text would read: "Williams began his comedy career doing stand-up appearances in small comedy clubs in California in the late 1970's, including many appearances in Los Angeles and San Francisco. On any given night, he might appear on the same stage as Jay Leno, Billy Crystal, Dana Carvey, Whoopi Goldberg and Paula Poundstone.  He quickly began touring as a solo standup comedian to sellout crowds throughout California and beyond."

71.234.188.172 (talk) 01:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 01:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, this sounds like you might have taken it straight from a source - we're not allowed to do that as it is against Wikipedia's copyright rules. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 01:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * this is mentioned several times during his Inside The Actors Studio appearance. although that wording does sound lifted from publicity material. - Alkivar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.231.221.224 (talk) 02:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Check Robin Williams date of birth - the year should be 1952.

174.49.234.40 (talk) 02:05, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Sources vary. FWIW, every news report I've heard has said he died at the age of 63. --‖ Ebyabe talk - Repel All Boarders  ‖ 02:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Per Ebyabe and footnote 7, which indicate that there is a conflict in the sources. Unless there's convincing evidence that one DOB is "more correct" than another, the status quo should stand. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 02:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Coroner hasn't ruled anything
Someone undid my change which should really say something like "The coroner's office have suggested that the cause of death was suicide" - bit premature and inappropriate to say they have ruled on something. Any admin want to deal? --nonsense ferret 23:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Now kindly resolved by --nonsense ferret  23:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was very serious, ... comments about the manner in which someone died have serious implications, we cover this a bit at WP:BDP. Thanks for pointing out the issue.  --j⚛e deckertalk 23:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Just a reminder that if his death is ruled a suicide, his name should be added to the category "Comedians who committed suicide".142.254.3.38 (talk) 03:50, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

RV
how can you missed 'RV' (2006). Robin Williams best movie ever in recent history. Please edit the page to include 'RV'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amalpeiris (talk • contribs) 03:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You may have found it excellent, but the critics and public didn't, I'm afraid. Check the article on the film itself.   --j⚛e deckertalk 04:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Joke theft?
it says nothing here about the apparent theft of jokes (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_thievery) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jones 8842 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Williams was a legend of stand-up comedy. There were many jokes about him stealing jokes, there were fewer genuine accusations - especially once he got past the heavier cocaine years. Brenner's was the only real specific charge I ever heard of it. Robin - like all great comedians - spent tons of time at comedy clubs. He heard millions of jokes, and probably borrowed bits from others without even realizing it - and just as many times, he probably made similar observations to other comedians, and people claimed he stole when he didn't (much like the story of Cook and CK). Even comics who really do get bent out of shape on the topic of joke-theft, know full well it happens unintentionally all the time, and it appears to happen a lot, when certain ideas are swimming around in the public's ether. That 4 different comedians around 2006, told a joke about the border wall in Mexico being built by illegal-immigrants, does not indicate joke theft. It indicates that around 2006, a lot of people were talking about immigration reform and that wall, and a bunch of comedians who tell topical jokes, had the same idea.


 * The rumors were never more than that. It makes sense to mention the rumors - founded or otherwise - in an article specifically about the topic of joke theft. They are part of stand-up legend, the same as the rumors about Milton Berle. But it makes less sense to mention them on an article about his life, when there is nothing but vague rumor. CleverTitania (talk) 02:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Show some respect, you posted this literally hours after his death. --92.232.49.38 (talk) 04:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Notable roles
We're going to need some sort of clear criteria for what makes a role notable, because the infobox gets changed on a regular basis. I'm thinking the following: A role is notable if: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jones 8842 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It was his first role
 * It was his first starring role
 * He (or the film) has been nominated for or has won a major award


 * Or, his "signature" role; a role he is widely known for. I think this criterion is more significant than the three you proposed.  No?  An example just off the top of my head:  Fred Gwynne in the role of Herman Munster in The Munsters.  That was probably not his first role; probably not his first starring role; and he probably didn't win any major awards for that.  But, the role of "Herman Munster" certainly goes hand-in-hand with the actor Fred Gwynne.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:23, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If Fred had never been in The Munsters, he might have been most famous for Car 54 Where Are You? where he was only slightly less dense than Herman Munster. Kind of like with Bob Denver, whose Gilligan was his most famous role, but it was little more than Maynard G. Krebs lost at sea (in more ways than one). Robin did a lot of things, but Mork and Mindy is the one they always seem to go back to when talking about Robin. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:02, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Misinformed information
Under death content.

Current: A month earlier, Williams had self-admitted himself into Hazeldon Addiction Treatment Center in Lindstrom, Michigan for continued sobriety related to his alcoholism.

Correction: A month earlier, Williams had self-admitted himself into Hazeldon Addiction Treatment Center in Lindstrom, Minnesota for continued sobriety related to his alcoholism.

Source: http://www.tmz.com/2014/07/01/robin-williams-actor-rehab-photo-rehab-drugs-alcohol/

Reason: The person who submitted the content mistyped the state. Their original source even provides the proper state.

Jlamanna83 (talk) 05:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Please correct the reference to the Hazeldon Addiction Center which is located in Center City, Minnesota (near Lindstrom, Minnesota). Hazeldon does not have a center in Michigan.

2601:2:6280:470:D9E7:6FD4:70A6:96F0 (talk) 05:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It's been fixed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Hazelden reference
Hazelden has a location in Lindstrom, Minnesota not Michigan and is spelled with an "e" instead of an "o". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.142.33 (talk) 05:19, 12 August 2014‎ (UTC)
 * Already fixed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:20, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
First line of Television Career reads as "as the alien Mork in a 1978 episode of the hit TV series Happy Days[2] after impressing the producer"

need to replace "Happy Days[2]" with "Mork & Mindy" as the tv show is incorrect.

Thanks

R3PL1C4N7 (talk) 05:43, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * No, he actually appeared on Happy Days before Mork and Mindy. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 05:45, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Add exact address
It was hard to find the address of the house and I was only able to find it on Google maps after an aerial photo was shown on the news. Should this be in the story? 95 St Thomas Way Belvedere Tiburon, CA 94920 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.91054,-122.47388,3a,75y,106.23h,42.23t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sLB-r9FkUmERTDQx81EdWqw!2e0 http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/95-Saint-Thomas-Way-Tiburon-CA-94920/19260698_zpid/ http://heavy.com/news/2014/08/robin-williams-suicide-scene-pics-photos/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30a:2ca8:2380:d4d:505b:2e04:b3dd (talk) 06:00, 12 August 2014‎ (UTC)
 * Definitely not. --John (talk) 06:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2014
Cause of death has not been identified as asphyxia, rather that is the preliminary suggestion

31.54.4.144 (talk) 23:13, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The lede does make this clear, though the infobox just states "asphyxia" as though it's been determined, without footnote. This should probably be changed. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 23:35, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe the wording is accurate and verified around this now, no formal ruling, but someone at the CO's has suggested that as a likely cause. --j⚛e deckertalk 23:37, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Likely is not the same as is (as a fact). So until an official statement has been given by the authorities this should be left alone. Rbaleksandar (talk) 07:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Birth date for Mr. Williams should be July 12, not 21st.

Dm712 (talk) 06:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * What's your source for that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:36, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

❌ -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

add him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Comedians_who_committed_suicide — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.177.162.97 (talk) 07:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Magioladitis (talk) 08:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Adding his role in 'Flubber' -to the section Filmography.

In 1997, Williams played the leading role of Professor Philip Brainard in the Disney film, "Flubber", alongside Marcia Gay Harden and Christopher Mcdonald.

Zararah (talk) 09:45, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It is included at Robin Williams filmography instead of here as the list is quite large. Jarkeld (talk) 10:17, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

216.204.177.220 (talk) 11:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)--216.204.177.220 (talk) 11:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)  - not sure how to do this - but - under the Addition heading - might want to add that on July 1st Robin was admitted to the Hazledon Center in Missouri. See this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/01/robin-williams-rehab_n_5548396.html Thank you. 216.204.177.220 (talk) 11:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Temporary full-protect
I apologize for having to shut down an article in the midst of breaking news, but on the advice of WMF tech staff I've implemented a temporary full-protection on this article to prevent the server cluster from breaking down under the load. Please direct technical questions on this to or. Everyone, please feel free to request edits here; I'm told that batch editing, or even just slower editing, is just fine, we're just trying to prevent thousands of people from trying to make edits at the same time. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 23:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * For clarity, confirming that this was a WMF request to avoid load. My thanks to and the rest of the community group who gave their advice in response to my request, and in advance to you all for your understanding. We don't want the cluster to go down like it did when Michael Jackson died, for example. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 23:38, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Does it need to be full protection? I would presume that established editors can be trusted to edit the article. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:36, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * If you read Fluffy's comments, the problem is the edit-rate, not the edit themselves. It's a technical matter, not an issue of trusting others.--v/r - TP 23:38, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, understood. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * JDF: Understood entirely.  Any sense of how long? --j⚛e deckertalk 23:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I sincerely hope that it's totally an over-reaction on my part and it will prove to be unnecessary; I'd much rather be proven a cautious fool than an optimistic one. (Right now the edit level rate has dropped down to a level that makes the servers a lot better placed, so it seems to be working.) In terms of timing, I picked 12 hours out of the air as that's normally the window over which big news spikes flatten off, but it may not be needed. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 23:47, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Just for the avoidance of doubt, I went with James's air-picked 12 hours when I protected, but I am fine with anyone lifting the protection as soon as the crisis is over and/or whatever magical load balancing is needed is done; no need to wait around asking me if changing the prot level is ok. (also, semi may need to be manually restored when my full expires; if I'm not around someone should be sure to keep an eye on that.) A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 23:51, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and ... *headdesk*, I could have looked for myself, sorry about that. Anyway, glad to help out here, and that sounds like an entirely wise move AFAIC.  Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 23:51, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Interesting. This is the first time in over nine years editing Wikipedia that I've seen an article fully protected for this reason.  It suggests a possible enhancement to the protection mechanism, something like leaving an article semi-protected, but automatically throttling the rate at which edits can be saved.  If the rate were limited to, say, one per minute, it would still allow work to proceed by registered editors, albeit with some frustration due to delays in saving the results. — QuicksilverT @ 00:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting idea. There was no similar suggestion in the current list of protection bugs and enhancements, so I've created one for this. Thanks! Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 08:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

And I've now lifted the protection after staff (or the passage of time?) got the cluster back under control. The article is back to its previous level of semiprotection. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 00:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I've changed the semi protection to indefinite as that's what it was prior to your full protection (I'm assuming this is what you intended). Regards, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Death 2014
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/robin-williams-dies-suspected-suicide-724724 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinabrahms (talk • contribs) 22:58, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Press release: http://www.marinsheriff.org/uploads/854.pdf --Cawhee (talk) 23:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The release reads as follows:

August 11, 2014 Investigation into Death of Actor Robin Williams PRESS CONFERENCE A press conference will be held on August 12, 2014 at 11:00 am. The press conference will be located in the Sheriff’s Office Assembly Room at 1600 Los Gamos Drive Suite #200, San Rafael, CA 94903. — QuicksilverT @ 23:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

This is what I love about wikipedia. How the editors always rush to put up the death of a celebrity. I know it should be up-to-date and this isn't any place for rambling thoughts, but this is just sad. And makes it sadder that at the end of the day his death was nothing more than a bunch of editors rushing together quickly to be the first and following editors to announce his death. Charlr6 (talk) 23:54, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * How about the news services that report such things? Are you of the opinion that they should allow a respectful interval between someone's death and delivering their reports — perhaps a month or two? — QuicksilverT @ 00:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Replying with a comment like that to try and contradict me proves my point. I've struck a nerve. There is a difference from a website that only people on it can work on, and Wikipedia, where loads of editors all over the world will be 'fighting' to get their editorial mark put on. And then some editors who try to take over it, and keep it to how they want to, even though Wikipedia states there are no 'owners' of a page. It always happens. Charlr6 (talk) 00:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep. I rushed here to make a minor edit, and as of this second, it's still there nothing. I'm part of something I didn't care about yesterday! Strange phenomenon, but absolutely exists. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:38, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, like it or not, when something like this happens Wikipedia has become the first place many people turn to (including some news media, and if that doesn't disturb you, it should). So I don't personally consider it a "race" by any means. It's a case of we need to have the information up as fast as possible. The problem, of course, is in the accuracy. And of course it's so easy for a false death report to sneak in. However, of course, in this case the original reports came from legitimate sources like the police themselves. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 13:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with Charlr6. My thoughts exactly. Good on you Charlr6. 71.62.148.154 (talk)

Odd wording of his death
The article states: "Williams was found unconscious at his residence and was pronounced dead at the scene." If he was already dead, he would have been found dead at the scene, not "unconscious". No? I assumed that "unconscious" implied being alive, yet not conscious. Thoughts? Thanks. Rest in Peace, Robin Williams. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:22, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It may be journalist spin; a competent law enforcement person would have used the word "unresponsive", instead of "unconscious". Unresponsive could mean unconscious or dead, without a person not trained in medicine or first aid having to make an inference. — QuicksilverT @ 23:34, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. So, if journalists are essentially getting it "wrong", we don't have to repeat that error here.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:17, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not journalists getting anything wrong. Unless a person is found in a state of extreme damage (i.e. beheaded) a person is not dead until someone of authority says they are dead because there have been many cases where someone appears to be dead but is not. Put another way, Williams was found legally unconscious. He was not legally dead until someone in authority pronounced him as such. Sometimes that happens on site as was the case here, and sometimes it doesn't occur until the person is taken to hospital where the determination is made, even though for all intents and purposes the person was already dead. This is what we as journalists are trained to write. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 13:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Last marriage shouldn't have an end date
I tried changing this, but it immediately got changed back, so maybe I can get somebody with more patience to agree with me?

Right now, it says that the marriage ended in 2014 because of his death. That's redundant, and Template:Marriage also states that the 'end' parameter should contain the "Date the marriage was dissolved or the spouse of the article's subject died." Not the date the subject died...

I also tried to back up my case by looking through List of Presidents of the United States and seeing what's been done for marriages for their articles, but it's quite inconsistent. Any thoughts? EditorInTheRye (talk) 13:02, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Every reference I've ever seen to marriage on Wikipedia uses the date of death of one partner to signify the end date of the marriage. Of course one can choose to consider themselves to still be married to the deceased as many do (my dad still considers himself married to my mom who passed away last year), but legally speaking I believe the marriage ends either when one partner is officially declared dead (which can be an issue in the case of a spouse being a missing person) or when a death certificate is issued. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 14:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Twitter and celebs' reactions
Just a reminder that everything here needs a reliable source. Twitter is not one. --John (talk) 17:26, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Edit for academy award 4 times not 3

2600:1010:B01F:9F63:2C9D:6C67:9906:7028 (talk) 06:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The news has been saying 3. What are the 4? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

❌ -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

From a search of Oscars.org's database:

Robin Williams   {d. Aug 11, 2014} 1987 (60th) ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE -- Good Morning, Vietnam {"Adrian Cronauer"}

1989 (62nd) ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE -- Dead Poets Society {"John Keating"}

1991 (64th) ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE -- The Fisher King {"Parry"}

1997 (70th) *ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE -- Good Will Hunting {"Sean McGuire"} [statuette]

I can't provide a direct link to the search results because they are tied to a session and will expire, but you search from here: http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/index.html

98.232.26.108 (talk) 17:39, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Patch Adams
I don't see anything about the movie "Patch Adams" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.151.71.212 (talk) 17:26, 12 August 2014‎ (UTC)
 * See Robin Williams filmography. He's been in far too many works to list every single one in this article. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 17:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Reactions:
Sarah Michelle Gellar who worked with Williams on The Crazy Ones said "My life is a better place because I knew Robin Williams, to my children he was Uncle Robin, to everyone he worked with, he was the best boss anyone had ever known, and to me he was not just an inspiration but he was the father I had always dreamed of having. There are not enough adjectives to describe the light he was, to anyone that ever had the pleasure to meet him."

Ladymoree (talk) 17:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * See John's comment below. This is interesting but it's not appropriate to add this many long quotations. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 18:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Billy Crystal, long time friend and Comic Relief co-host, responded to the news of Williams's death via twitter writing "No words" (Aug, 11th, 10:40 EST). — Preceding unsigned comment added by JrCrosth (talk • contribs) 15:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

 No words. &mdash; Billy Crystal (@BillyCrystal) August 12, 2014


 * While I agree we should probably include some more of these reactions, I think we should go with the numerous secondary sources that are popping up discussing them rather than individual tweets. See, for instance, this People blog post. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 15:16, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Per John's comment below. When the dust settles we might look to articles of collections of quotations and reactions, but this specific one shouldn't be added. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 18:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Illness and death
No doubt the illness and death section will continually change but the sentence "According to his publicist, Williams suffered from depression, though he would not confirm the reports that the death was by suicide" seems to put the carthorse before the horse. Perhaps the first half is fine, but the second half says "that the death" way before his death is otherwise mentioned. 194.176.105.154 (talk) 13:38, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Section re-ordering would help ensure logical and chronological continuity and help prevent needless repetition.

Currently:

6 Personal life 6.1 Marriages and children 6.2 Family and friends 6.3 Addiction and health problems 6.4 Other interests 6.5 Charity work

7 Illness and death

Suggested:

6 Personal life 6.1 Marriages and children 6.2 Family and friends 6.3 Other interests 6.4 Charity work 6.5 Addiction and health problems

7 Illness and death

Paulscrawl (talk) 19:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC) ✅ -- Paulscrawl (talk) 19:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Apparent suicide
The LA Times reports that the sheriff's office says that it appears to be a suicide. LA Times. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes I saw that report as well. It might be best not to include it In the article yet as most of the out her sources seem to say it was not suicide.--BarsofGold (talk) 04:01, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, while the LA times source is not specifically cited in the article, several other sources are which say the same thing. Which is why the article ALSO mentions that the Sheriff's office has speculated that it may be a suicide.  Read the "Death" section, where it states "The Coroner Division of Marin County suspects the death to be suicide by asphyxia, pending investigation"  and is cited to two sources.  I'm not sure why we would need to say it twice.  -- Jayron  32  04:02, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, no real need to say it twice, except it is from two sources, and one says "suspects" and the other says "apparent". To me, apparent is a stronger statement than suspect.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 04:45, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Should William's Main Page ITN headline read "...commits suicide at the age of 63." ? Tandrum (talk) 08:34, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The San Francisco Gate is reporting that suicide has been confirmed and that he hanged himself with a belt. There were also superficial cuts on his wrists and a folded pocketknife with blood in one of his pockets. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Investigators-Robin-Williams-hanged-himself-5683229.php#photo-6715197 TheLastAmigo (talk) 19:27, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Found Dead?
I found an article that talks about his death. It's from an apparent asphyxiation according to the article; which translates to (in my mind) "he hung himself." -Poodle of Doom (talk) 00:01, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * There are other ways to asphyxiate, such as carbon monoxide. In any case, this isn't a space for speculation, the sources will have clearer answers in due time. --j⚛e deckertalk 00:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * My money's on plastic bag. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTFORUM. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, then that bet didn't count. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Earlier this evening, Dr. Drew pointed out that asphyxia can be caused by any number of things, and the authorities aren't giving out details yet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Details Given. He hung himself with his belt, and had cut marks on his wrists. Perhaps we could use the articles I cited as references if need be? -Poodle of Doom (talk) 20:31, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Screw up
I think someone screwed up the infobox. It's not in the correct place. Can someone fix it? 69.14.13.111 (talk) 20:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Never mind seems someone fixed it while I was typing this out.69.14.13.111 (talk) 20:45, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Reactions
I don't know if this will help, but I found this and figured someone could use this for the reaction section. It's celeb reactions to his death. 69.14.13.111 (talk) 20:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Date of death
Williams was last seen by his wife around 10 pm (other sources say 10:30) on August 10. How do we know he died on Aug. 11 when he could have died late on the 10th? Why does article list Aug. 11 as date of death? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.222.176.68 (talk) 20:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * We go with whatever the sources say. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

It is when he was reported dead or found to be dead, the date may change once conclusive time of death is given but until than we just go with what is the norm here, the time currently given by various news agencies and the department that found him on that date — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.69.172.92 (talk) 21:11, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Suicide and the alcohol/cocaine connection
I'm reading "Drugs and Society" by Hanson and Venturelli, 5th Edition, 1998, Jones and Bartlett publishers. From what I'm reading, people who use cocaine are about 60 times more likely to commit suicide; alcoholics are about 60 times more likely to commit suicide (especially teens) and when both cocaine and alcohol are used together they form cocaethylene, which gives a very high sense of euphoria but which impells suicide. Currently the emphasis is on Robin Williams' tragic death from depression but the actual cause of the depression is glossed over. I don't want to "add to" the Wiki article since these articles are administered by Wiki editors but I think the cocaine/alcohol connection should be looked into with regards to Williams' suicide. 50.202.81.2 (talk) 19:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comment. This page is for discussing improvements to this article, which must be based on published sources. As you state yourself, the cause of Williams' depression is being glossed over... unless and until a reliable source connects up Williams' history of addiction and his suicide, it's not appropriate to add anything in that vein to this article. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 19:50, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * There has been a recent proposal at Village Pump that Wikipedia should follow ''Recommendations for reporting on suicide], one of a number of such guidelines prepared for newspapers and associated media, whose main purpose is to mitigate and help prevent copycat suicide that can resulting from such reporting when it is sensationalist in nature. Of course Wikipedia is not a newspaper and in the Village Pump debate a good point was made that how we perceive suicide is culturally dependent - in the West we see it as a public health problem, but that is not necessarily so in other cultures. Nevertheless the IP above is quite right to say substance abuse is implicated in a very great number of suicides. Note that one of the recommendations is not to suggest a single recent cause as that tends to simplify the public perception of suicide. This article might be said to do that with the mention (widely replicated in MSM accounts of his death) of Williams checking himself into rehab shortly before his death.


 * However, on the whole I think this suicide has been sensitively reported here, perhaps because of the notability of the subject. I wish the same could be said of single-event reporting of suicide, typically of teenagers, in other Wikipedia articles.  This is an essay (*not* accepted policy) on the reporting of such suicide, by an editor who apparently specialises in these kinds of edits, which I think needs perusal by the community, and especially with a view to ensuring responsible reporting of teenage suicide. 128.90.94.106 (talk) 20:31, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * They're saying the toxicology report will be available in a few weeks, and at that point it will be clear what to do. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:40, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Robin Williams had a brain disease which killed him via depression

174.48.133.41 (talk) 23:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - Anupmehra - Let's talk!  00:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2014
Link to official Marin County Sheriff Article on Robin William's death http://www.marinsheriff.org/uploads/854.pdf

Ballance (talk) 23:18, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Adding the report is unnecessary, given that this is ample third party sources. Mike V  •  Talk  23:33, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * original source material, official govt docs, viewed as less important than 3rd party accounts by wikipedia. "the monkey has grabbed hold of the camera and is now taking snapshots of the news." 69.201.168.196 (talk) 00:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Weapons of Self-Destruction
I found different info for this tour. in August 2008, Williams announced a new 26-city tour titled "Weapons of Self-Destruction". In 2009, CNN described an [80-city tour], with the same name.

Which is correct?

Thank you - Mitch 3000  00:19, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Robin Williams unable to comment on his death?
This needs to be rewritten: "According to his publicist, Williams suffered from depression, though he would not confirm the reports that the death was by suicide." Maybe to something like this: "A publicist for Williams stated Robin suffered from depression, though he would not confirm the reports that the death was by suicide."128.84.127.81 (talk) 15:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll respond. BOTH sentences are pretty much equally ambiguous. But I really don't think there's any useful information there anyway. HiLo48 (talk) 02:11, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

RV film
you need to add the movie RV to the list of movies he starred in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.74.53.64 (talk) 03:38, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The film RV is indeed listed in his filmography. See this article: Robin Williams filmography.   It is listed for the year 2006.  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

More information regarding death
This is my first Wiki contribution - I apologize in advance for any issues.

The New York Times has some specifics that contradict the CNN Reference 112 regarding his death that might be relevant to the Illness and death section of this article:

NY Times: "Mr. Williams’s wife, Susan Schneider, went to bed at 10:30 Sunday night and woke up on Monday believing her husband was still asleep in a separate bedroom. A personal assistant, concerned that he was not responding to knocks on his door, discovered the body, cool to the touch and with rigor mortis, at about 11:45 a.m. on Monday."

CNN: "Williams was last seen alive at about 10:30 p.m. Sunday, by his wife, when she went to bed, Boyd said. He apparently went into a bedroom at an unknown time after that. His wife left the home at about 10:30 a.m. Monday, assuming Williams was still asleep." 67.149.188.58 (talk) 05:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * There's no conflict - the way it reads, his wife went to bed 10:30pm Sunday, woke up, assumed Williams was in a different room of the house but didn't check, and left. Williams personal assistant came by likely after his wife left and found Williams in that state. So there's no obvious conflict. (and nor would it be our place to try to point that out) --M ASEM  (t) 06:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think those contradict at all. Both say Schneider last saw him around 10:30 p.m. Sunday. The personal assistant finding him at 11:45 a.m. Monday doesn't conflict with his wife leaving the house at 10:30 a.m. Monday. It just means they slept in different rooms (at least that night). Not at all uncommon. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 06:06, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Anyone in Boston?
It would be great if we could get free images of the "Good Will Hunting" bench which has been turned into a makeshift memorial (per ) for Williams. It's in the Public Gardens, fwiw. --M ASEM (t) 02:25, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You should ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boston and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Massachusetts as well. I'm not sure where else to get the attention of Bostonians. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 02:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Tossed a request to both, but I'll keep scanning Flickr (which has some but not CC) in case. --M ASEM  (t) 03:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Another thought might be to skim the list of users transcluding for a user you recognize and directly ask. Even if they themselves aren't in Boston, they might know someone. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 06:08, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

WILLIAMS CHILDREN
Under the heading where you read how many children he has, it is written "3, including Zelda Williams". Why not just say 3, or list all their names? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.204.41.13 (talk) 07:29, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Because the template guideline provides that only notable children should be named. WWGB (talk) 08:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Tiburon
The article states Tiburon is unincorporated, but Tiburon, California states that it is incorporated. Attys (talk) 23:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Tiburon is incorporated. However, his home, with a Tiburon address, was outside the city limits.  That's why he lived in unincorporated Tiburon.  -- Jayron  32  23:41, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * But what is the relevance? Why does the status of the locality need to be mentioned in a paragraph about his death? Does it somehow make a difference? (I don't live in the US). Moriori (talk) 23:53, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a more precise location. It's not really necessary any more than the city is necessary at all, but it's more accurate while still being concise. - Aoidh (talk) 23:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's relevant. People in the US commonly talk about an unincorporated area. It's really used almost as a synonym for "the outskirts of" or "just outside of", except the place name still applies. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 23:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Tks Aoidh and Mendaliv. As this is an international pedia, and unincorporated is a US centric term, perhaps it should be linked so those unfamiliar with the term can see what it means. Cheers. Moriori (talk) 00:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * In that case, the article should say the body was found at his home located outside Tiburon or so. The way it's written makes it sound as though Tiburon is unincorporated. Attys (talk) 00:25, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I've added a suggested rewording ... "near Tibureon", happy to have that reverted if anyone has an issue with it, I think it's clearer. --j⚛e deckertalk 00:32, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Apparently, after Joe Decker made that edit, it was reverted back to "unincorporated Tiburon". I have revised it now to read "in an unincorporated area just outside Tiburon". Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:31, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Multiple sources including Marin Independent Journal and the NY Times all use "in Tiburon" to describe the location of RW's death. Why not in the infobox? Arbor to SJ (talk) 05:33, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

The exact address is 98 St Thomas Way Tiburon, CA 94920 - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2CA8:2380:D4D:505B:2E04:B3DD (talk) 05:39, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * To clarify that for the non-U.S. readers: Addresses in the U.S. always have some town name, even if they aren't inside a municipality. (It's comparable to post towns in the UK.) --Closeapple (talk) 07:10, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The IP needs a verifiable source for that address (which corresponds to the unincorporated area Paradise Cay, California. Zzyzx11 (talk) 19:38, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, let’s get a verifiable source. It is much cleaner to indicate "Paradise Cay, California" as the location rather than constructions such "unincorporated Marin County near Tiburon". Interestingly, Paradise Cay is an enclave completely surrounded by Tiburon (since the Tiburon town limits extend into San Francisco Bay). But whether surrounded by Tiburon or not, the location is not *in* Tiburon, and to indicate Tiburon as having been Williams' residence is false. Iscoak (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Found one, I'm adding it. --Coolcaesar (talk) 08:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Murder File
Do we have to have cause of dead in infobox? C'mon, this is not a murder case. Lets have some respect people! This is not a bulvar! 50.9.97.53 (talk) 02:20, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Respect for who or what? It's what happened. It's truthful. Why would you want to hide the matter as though it is shameful? WWGB (talk) 02:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know what murder has to do with it, but I basically agree. The actual cause was asphyxiation (or asphyxia - same thing). That's all that's needed in the infobox. If the reader wants more info, they can read it in the main body. --Musdan77 (talk) 03:55, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, I advocate for including the full reason (aphyxia - Suicide by hanging) as it's an encylopedic benefit for the reader to know, especially in such a high profile death as his. Tutelary (talk) 11:03, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree with three responses that the information should be posted in the infobox. I may be relatively new out of the box on Wikipedia but I learn quick.  That being said ... it should not be on there yet.  Until an autopsy is done all that we know is a preliminary finding from the assistant deputy chief coroner, which in all honesty is a far drop from the person who will give us the correct cause of death.  No point in making Wikipedia look silly by posting information which might ne incorrect which was only based on a visual observation.  He may have died from a drug overdose before the asphyxiation for all anyone really knows. Maybe we should let the head coroner do his job and then we can post his findings, I know I read somewhere on Wikipedia's writing style it wants us to mimic the big encyclopedias that are published out there and there is no way in hell they would have that kind of information in their volumes.  Once the results are out, I also think that asphyxia should suffice.  Let the reader link to the appropriate page.  I'm sure they can put two and two together. --&#91;&#91;User:Slave28&#124;Slave1&#93;&#93; (talk) 11:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Stand-Up
Were Robin Williams: At The Met and Robin Williams LIVE on Broadway actually "tours", or just runs of performances at the locations stated? Cannot see this in the cite. Davidships (talk) 11:30, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Issue with last marriage
At the top of the profile it lists 'Valerie Velardi' as being his last wife before he passed away -- however, it was Susan Schneider who was his last wife, according to the rest of the actual post, and this news post. 

Arivie (talk) 20:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

also the divorce date of his first marriage is wrong according to http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/marsha-garces-valerie-velardi-robin-williams-ex-wives/ should be 1988 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.7.190.135 (talk) 21:20, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Alright, this was fixed, so I declare this closed! arivie (talk) 11:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Obama
I put Obama's eulogy in a side quote because it was longer than the other quotes - due to the importance of the person saying it I copied it in full. It has now been put into the prose instead, which seems inconsistent with the lengths of other quotations. I suggest either to trim the quote or reinstate the box - Little Old Me suggests the box. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 00:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think the box is quite right. It gives undue prominence to Obama as somehow relevant to Williams' life. He's the US President and is given to making an enormous amount of comments on culture and society. That's all. It's not like we're talking about a natural disaster or international incident where individual head of state comments are any more relevant than celebrity commentators. If anything, he's much less relevant than, say, Billy Crystal, or anyone else who has actually worked with Williams. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 01:19, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Absolutely agree, Mendaliv. Exactly why I removed the box quote. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓  01:34, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Obama's remarks are neither noteworthy or truly relevant to Williams' life or death, just another politician with a microphone shoved in his face making comments (whether that microphone is physical or a tweet makes no difference.)HammerFilmFan (talk) 12:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Obama is current President. His reaction is notable. M.Karelin (talk) 12:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Being President doesn't automatically mean his words on a person are notable.  Snuggums ( talk  /  edits ) 14:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have to agree here. Obama is a politician, and unless he decided to award Williams with something posthumously, his opinion in this case is less valuable than those of leading comedicians and actors who actually can discuss the loss of Williams to the industry. Eg, the reaction from Steve Martin would be more important to include than Obama's. That said, we should be trying to generalize there reactions and avoid calling out any specific ones save for those that were very close to him. His wife's reaction, I think, definitely should stay. (THis is also why I'd like to get a picture of the bench in Boston to show the public's reaction) --M ASEM  (t) 15:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Dispute with Disney
Section was excessive in courtroom and financial details, which seemed way undue and undermined the career sections. This was a single event and dispute, not uncommon in any industry, especially Hollywood. The subject should be rephrased for balance and context. --Light show (talk) 17:43, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Right, but you have to delete the entire section if you want to do that. The problem is that by deleting only the first paragraph, you turned the article into even more of a disorganized mess than it already is. As the Hippocratic Oath goes, first, do no harm. --Coolcaesar (talk) 17:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I thought I did. My mistake. --Light show (talk) 17:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

The reaction on his death
Why the Reaction on his death was removed from article? Who did it? M.Karelin (talk) 12:46, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Wasn't me, but see above discussion. The reason for pulling it is that it's non-notable, because every A-list celebrity of his stature receives condolences like that upon their passing. Truth is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for inclusion on WP. It has to be notable. --Coolcaesar (talk) 18:29, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Wrists
Is the info on Williams' wrists and the nearby knife too much information? I'd consider it relevant and encyclopedic... and I don't think it should be dismissed solely because it may be considered "graphic". Thoughts? &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 19:08, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Pinging who removed it. &mdash;  MusikAnimal  talk 19:10, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Bipolar disorder?
The statement "Williams had bipolar disorder" has been added to the article based on a single source, Communities Digital News. I know nothing about the reputation of this source (not an issue on it's own), but all that the source says about this is "It has been reported through several sites that Williams suffered from bipolar disorder for years".

For a biography of a living person (which also covers the recently deceased), I'm not convinced this is enough. I'm tempted to remove the claim. HiLo48 (talk) 05:15, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * All evening in the news reports they were talking about severe depression. I don't recall anything said about bipolar. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I often wondered (or thought) that he was hyperactive. I don't know of any source on that. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 05:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I have no idea about Robin Williams, but you might be interested to know that bipolar disorder is often associated with ADHD (which I suspect you are referring to), and to my knowledge, especially the rapid-cycle subtypes. I have encountered the idea that rapid cycling might not strictly be bipolar disorder at all, but a symptom of ADHD. See also Creativity and mental illness. Creative people suspected to have been bipolar could equally have been affected by ADHD. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 11:02, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

✅ Highly credible source attesting to his BP added. BTW, didn't you all see the Talk section above titled Bipolar disorder? Take your meds ;) Paulscrawl (talk) 06:25, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

'''ABOVE MERGED FROM SECTION Bipolar disorder - note ? in this section title''' - Paulscrawl (talk) 17:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Wasn't Williams diagnosed with bipolar disorder at some point? This is very relevant to his depression that led to his death.dnsla23 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dnsla (talk • contribs) 00:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have seen some news reports with that diagnosis given -- but none were reputable enough to back it up with any further refs or dates or citations. It could be true -- or it could just be case of "the blind leading the blind" in journalism-land. Let's wait and see. 142.254.3.38 (talk) 03:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I will try to find an acceptable one for you. I also have bipolar disorder, and am a member of alcoholics anonymous, so his story in this regard is very meaningful to me. Would be great for people to see this and get a better understanding of how these elements are interlinked. dnsla23 05:02, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

✅ "He was known to have bipolar disorder, depression and drug abuse problems, said Julie Cerel, a psychologist and board chair of American Association of Suicidology." Suicide a risk even for beloved characters like Williams USA Today Great article, with other mental health/suicide authorities cited - in Health section now. Much better BP source than existing pop culture site one (can we lose that now?), in terms of specificity, authoritative cites, and extremely helpful educational info on suicide & mental health, as brought to everyone's attention by Robin Williams' tragic death. A real public service piece, in addition to serving as authority for BP. Let's keep it. Paulscrawl (talk) 06:03, 12 August 2014 (UTC).
 * That really isn't much better. It's just more of the same hearsay with a name attached to it. "Was known," by whom? I have emailed Dr. Cerel to inquire about the basis for her claim. Vegemeister (talk) 07:50, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * This Huffington Post article says, "Comedian Robin Williams once told an interviewer that he struggled with depression, but hadn't been diagnosed with either "clinical depression" or bipolar disorder." The NPR interview is from 2006. I can't listen to it, but if it sounds like he was answering seriously I think it should out weigh most of what I've seen on the other side, which is people who've never met him trying to diagnose him from a distance. 66.27.174.138 (talk) 15:20, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dr. Cerel says the USA Today article's wording implies much greater confidence than what she actually told them. Furthermore, she also came by the claim on lists of celebrities with mental illness. With that in mind, I have removed the claim about bipolar disorder from this article.  I strongly caution against adding it back unless you have a source with either an interview with Robin Williams in which he testifies to being diagnosed or self-diagnosed, or an interview with a psychologist who has personally diagnosed Mr. Williams in a professional context. Wikipedia should not be propagating celebrity gossip. If you must, please at least label it explicitly as rumor. Vegemeister (talk) 15:36, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

After much research, I agree with your action. Nothing definitive has been shown in any "respectable" medical site, or the like. The site http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/08/11/robin-williams-bipolar-sufferer-dead-at-63-due-to-suicide/ outright states in an editorial note: We acknowledge Williams himself has never stated, to our knowledge, that he had been formally diagnosed with bipolar disorder or depression. Yet given his behaviors and symptoms, it seems far more likely he suffered from bipolar disorder — of which depression is a very significant component. News accounts saying he suffered from depression don’t appear to be substantiated by Williams’ own statements on the issue.dnsla23 22:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dnsla (talk • contribs)


 * More news articles are coming in reporting him as having had bipolar disorder. For example,
 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28753326
 * http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/robin-williams-found-dead-63-home-sheriff-article-1.1899928
 * http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/robin-williams-dead-63-depression-factor-article-1.1900234
 * http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/depression-and-darkness-that-lay-behind-robin-williams-laughter/story-e6frg8n6-1227021615439?nk=06fcf43d9b6d76dd34d01809c6c1cd91
 * There are, however, quite a lot of uses of words like "reportedly" in these stories. Perhaps we can say something like "Williams, who had been widely reported as suffering from bipolar disorder..." which meets the NPOV requirements as well as the notability requirement (ie. what is notable are the many reports in WP:RS)..
 * -- The Anome (talk) 23:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I just looked at the first link there. It says "Robin Williams was also reported to have had bipolar disorder..." Do you know who reported it? We did! I expect the other articles are similar. There is no concrete evidence for this anywhere. It's not good enough for a BLP. HiLo48 (talk) 23:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * What I'm advocating is that we should report the press speculation on the nature of his illness as press speculation -- it seems to be cropping up in reports everyehere at the moment, as the press searches for angles to report. Making this clear also helps clear up any misconceptions in our readers that there is as yet a "smoking gun" regarding this. -- The Anome (talk) 00:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * We are not allowed to report our own speculation. Reporting media speculation is not much better. It's a breach of WP:BLP. HiLo48 (talk) 00:22, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * WP:BLP would certainly apply if Robin Williams was still with us. Alas, he isn't. -- The Anome (talk) 10:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:BLP still very much applies per WP:BDP. - Aoidh (talk) 10:06, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * See WP:BDP. Claims of mental illness are contentious almost by their very nature. It's inappropriate to add speculation that very well may vanish tomorrow. We're not a newspaper, we're an encyclopedia. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 10:09, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I have confirmed, via independent email, that in an otherwise superb and useful public service article that still might be used here, Suicide a risk even for beloved characters like Williams (8/12/2014) that Dr. Julie Cerel meant, “I’ve read it might be possible he had..” I gave her link, phone # & email of USA Today's  Standards Editor and she agreed to get it corrected. When done, as verifiable on USA Today Corrections and Clarifications, this article might well be be re-posted. Nothing comes close to its expertise on depression (not otherwise specified), substance abuse, and suicide risk. See next BP diagnostic retraction below

I am responsible for forcing retraction of admitted "speculative" bipolar diagnosis by Psych Central's John Grohol in "Robin Williams, Bipolar Sufferer, Dead at 63 Due to Suicide" His revised article remains useless, unless qualified as speculation. Per biography of a living person (which also covers the recently deceased), I don't see the point. -- Paulscrawl (talk) 00:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * In addition to adding disclaimer and footnotes in response to my challenge of bipolar diagnosis at a distance, author John Grohol has also re-titled article, "Robin Williams, Bipolar Sufferer, Dead at 63 Due to Suicide" to "Robin Williams, Mental Illness Sufferer, Dead at 63 Due to Suicide" - well done. This could be cited now, if need be.
 * Still waiting on corrections and clarifications to take effect in valuable USA Today article. - Paulscrawl (talk) 19:21, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Will someone delete the bipolar bit, declare it a speculation or insert a source, please? Shouldn't at least have a "citation needed" tag? (I'm new, I don't know). Rarsiii (talk) 09:30, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robin_Williams&diff=621034389 Already done]. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 09:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Robin's mother's DoB
I don't think I'm allowed to edit due to the semi-protected status of the page, but, for what it's worth:

According to the Social Security Death Index listing for Laurie M. Williams who passed away on 4 Sept 2001, her date of birth is 24 Sept 1922:

"United States Social Security Death Index," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V3CC-JZS : accessed 13 Aug 2014), Laurie M Williams, 04 Sep 2001; citing U.S. Social Security Administration, Death Master File, database (Alexandria, Virginia: National Technical Information Service, ongoing). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jenefertari (talk • contribs) 18:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Findagrave has it as 24 Sep 1922 - 04 Sep 2001. However, there's no photo of the grave marker, so it lacks factual certainty. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:49, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
I opt that a new article for Reactions to the death of Robin Williams should be created, where most of the tributes can be moved to. And here's another: Terry Gilliam, who directed Williams twice (in The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (1988) and The Fisher King (1991), and who'd also initially wanted him as Cavaldi in his Brothers Grimm (2005) until rejections by the Weinsteins), posted this in tribute on his Facebook page:

"Robin Williams, the most astonishingly funny, brilliant, profound and silly miracle of mind and spirit, has left the planet. He was a giant heart, a fireball friend, a wondrous gift from the gods. Now the selfish bastards have taken him back. Fuck 'em! &mdash; Terry Gilliam August 12, 2014"

--217.225.210.31 (talk) 16:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Facebook is not a source. --John (talk) 17:47, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It's too soon for an article like that. The article would more likely be Death of Robin Williams anyway. Wikipedia isn't the place for a simple list of celebrity comments about an event. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 17:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I accept M endaliv 's reasoning (at least for this article rather than one directly about the man's death, although Gilliam is certainly not a random celebrity commenting on a person's death whom he had nothing to do with), but I'd like to point out that John's is false: The problem with reliable sourcing is to verify whether a statement is true, and most Facebook posts and Tweets come from non-notable people who are not reliable sources, whereas it's a different issue when it's about what a celebrity has said and when dealing with the particular celebitiy's official account on any of these two sites.


 * In other words, we wouldn't use a quote from Gilliam (or anybody else) in the article moon coming down to that the moon would be made of green cheese, but it's a different story altogether when we're talking about Gilliam's professional collaborations and his official accounts. And BTW, I'm just now realizing that many of the condolences from Williams's professional collaborators could well be incorporated into a new section in this article here entitled Legacy if that's what they're about, i. e. what people will remember him for. --217.225.210.31 (talk) 16:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia requires reliable sources for everything that appears in articles. Facebook is not, and cannot be, a reliable source for anything. --John (talk) 16:55, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Again: The only reason why Facebook and Twitter are generally considered unreliable is because most people there are non-notable by Wikipedia standards and because they also contain fake celebrity accounts. Official accounts of celebrities is a different story altogether. And I'm repeating that I understand random celebrities commenting on Williams' death may be excessive, but his professional collaborators (even on multiple occasions) may be more notable, especially if they're speaking about his legacy rather than just stating how upset they are, even if only for a new section called Legacy or even a new article called Death of Robin Williams. --217.225.210.31 (talk) 21:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't disagree that professional collaborators may be relevant enough to mention, but the problem with Facebook and Twitter is not that the accounts may be fake or the posts may not be by the person allegedly running the account. The problem, for Wikipedia purposes, is that the information contained (and its significance) has not been vetted by an independent editor. Strictly speaking, it's not so much as reliable sources issue as it is a NPOV issue, especially in terms of giving due coverage to different viewpoints. Consider the Obama quotation for instance—yes, it's thoughtful and appropriate, but why should his statement be given any greater prominence than Gilliam? But what about choosing between people who have worked with Williams? Should we give greater prominence to Gilliam than Crystal? Or any other pair of quotes? On what do we base that? Surely not our own opinions, as that's a nightmare waiting to happen; imagine trying to handle the number of posts on this page that we should list x or y film in which Williams starred in the lead section. Always remember that Wikipedia is a tertiary source: it should reflect what's published in secondary sources. Quotations like these are primary sources. Anyway, I hope that explains things a bit better. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 21:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Robin Williams vegan?
Hi,

I was wondering if someone could add to the article, if they feel the evidence supports the claim sufficiently, that Robin Williams was vegan. A vegan blog I follow posted an article today about Williams' love of animals and it even mentioned in passing that Williams was a vegan. The blog post can be found here: http://www.globalanimal.org/2014/08/12/remembering-animal-lover-robin-williams/

I hope there are others who are better than I am at scouring the internet for reliable source material. If not, I hope that this blog post will be considered as a candidate citation for the claim that Williams was a vegan and an animal rights advocate.

2602:306:BC58:5910:1103:270C:82AD:1FEF (talk) 23:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * We would need a better source than a blog for this - particularly one that gives no explanation whatsoever as to how the blogger came by the information. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:46, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * It also seems trivial to add in the first place  Snuggums ( talk  /  edits ) 02:43, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Disagree; wiki bios take abundant note of things like religious convictions and political affiliations. Sole issue would be a source.  72.174.164.26 (talk) 23:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Disagree: well-sourced attribution of his vegetarianism certainly encyclopedic, not at all trivial -- Paulscrawl (talk) 00:04, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Influenced
The "Influenced" field in the infobox is growing as wannabe comedians claim they were influenced by Williams and have their name added to the list. Surely it is not the intention of this label to have a whole bunch of borderline notable comics get a free ride in his article? Anyone else share my concern? WWGB (talk) 00:23, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, absolutely, we should be liberally applying WP:BRD to new additions to the infobox. The influenced field should only contain people influenced who are somehow relevant to this article, along the lines of WP:DUE. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 00:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I just removed Jo Koy, Shaun Majumder and Mark Critch. I see no reason why these folks belong in the infobox. Particularly Majumder and Critch, whose own articles don't even mention Williams (though apparently the references did). I have no problem with Caliendo (known for his imitation of Williams). Carrot Top and Eddie Murphy are clearly significant comedians, though I'm not as sure about them being in the "influenced" field; I didn't remove them though. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 00:33, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Fields Medal
I added something about the Fields Medal. It's awarded every four years (i.e. less frequently than the Nobel Prize) and it happens that the film Williams won an Oscar for is just about the only reason most people know the prize exists. Somehow the fact that the winners were announced within a couple days of Williams' death seems like an appropriate connection, since any mention of the prize immediately reminds me of "the Fields Medal, the Fields Medal!" Roches (talk) 18:18, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That's a tangent and possibly original research. Even if it's true, credit for Good Will Hunting bringing the Fields Medal to popular attention (I agree that it wasn't that well known back in the mid-1990s) would properly belong to the screenwriters, meaning that information should go in the articles on that film or the Fields Medal, not in Williams' article. --Coolcaesar (talk) 18:26, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed -- mention of the fields medal is absolutely inappropriate here. Take it out 98.201.240.250 (talk) 18:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It doesn't strike me as particularly relevant. It's at most a very vague coincidence. 75.156.70.54 (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a coincidence, of course. It is not original research and there are secondary sources, for example here. I also don't think it was "absolutely inappropriate", which implies that people would be offended by it. It simply happened that the top stories under "In the News" were about the Fields Medal and the death of Robin Williams. There are many awards in science, but only a few, like the Nobel Prize, are discussed in mainstream media. The Fields Medal would likely have been overlooked as well, had it not appeared in the same film Williams won an Oscar for. Some readers may have found the connection interesting, as I did. Roches (talk) 01:11, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Addiction section
On July 1st 2014 Mr. Williams was admitted to the Hazelden Center in Missouri, per numerous news sources, specifically, TMZ in this case and Sober Nation  as well as the Huffington Post 2601:6:2800:C3A:51A:E5F2:360F:C557 (talk) 02:56, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you - Lisa


 * Already in the article. See the first paragraph of Robin Williams. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 02:59, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Wrote "Top 10 Reasons to be an Episcopalian"
Not attributable to a legitimate source. Although "the list" is widely attributed to Williams based on his mention of the Episcopal church in a stand-up routine, there is no actual evidence that he ever wrote or recited such a list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Willcate (talk • contribs) 01:12, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * At the very least the website it's cited to looks dodgy... more like a fansite or someone's personal webpage (see below). Not a reliable source. I agree, it should probably be removed, at least until a better source can be found. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 03:04, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I took a second glance and realized it's a church newsletter website. Hmm. I still think its reliability for this purpose is suspect. And if not, perhaps it should be considered for removal on WP:UNDUE grounds: is there any indication this was a significant routine of Williams'? —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 03:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)