Talk:Rock Machine Motorcycle Club

Gang vs. Club
I reverted the change in category from Motorcycle Club to Motorcycle Gang. The Rock Machine are, in fact, a motorcycle club. The term motorcycle gang has no concensus definition. Mmoyer 02:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This debate can become endless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Outlaw Biker (talk • contribs) 12:25, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Agreed CanadianHistorian(MMA &#38; History) (talk) 18:21, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Assessment
I have assessed this as a Stub, as it only contains the basic information on the subject, and of low importance, as I do not feel that this topic is essential for understanding Canada. Cheers, CP 01:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130830024037/http://melville.inmycommunity.com.au/news-and-views/local-news/Bikie-gangs-interest/7544400 to http://melville.inmycommunity.com.au/news-and-views/local-news/Bikie-gangs-interest/7544400/

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Web site
I am not sure if the Rock Machine have a web site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Outlaw Biker (talk • contribs) 12:24, 18 December 2017 (UTC)


 * www.rockmachinemotorcycleclub.com ROCK GOTTI1813 (talk) 14:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * www.rockmachinemotorcycleclub.com ROCK GOTTI1813 (talk) 14:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Original ties with the Bandidos...
The article currently says the Rock Machine forged ties with the Bandidos in 2000. RJ Parker's book said that Salvatore Cazzetta first forged ties with the Bandidos in the late 1980s or early 1990s -- ie. before the Biker Wars. Geo Swan (talk) 06:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

They did not establish a working friendship during the late '80s and early 90s but I do not doubt that Salvatore was probably in contact with them as they would have been at that time still the Hells Angels largest rival. But it wasn't really until the war started and The Rock Machine observed the scandinavian-based Bandidos taking on the angels in the Nordic biker War this impressed them and realized that if they wanted to get out of the situation unscathed that they would need to patch over. When the war started the Rock Machine was the strongest faction the alliance in terms of numbers and firepower, as the conflict went on the other organizations like the dark circle, Pelletier Clan and especially the local narcotics dealers (who did not belong to large groups but had joined the alliance nonetheless). We're devastated by 1999, The Rock Machine itself received significant casualties. This in turn with the Bandidos success is Scandinavia caused the rock machine to reach out to them. And consolidate an official friendship CanadianHistorian(MMA &#38; History) (talk) 18:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Rock Machine Motorcycle Club
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Rock Machine Motorcycle Club's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "oocities.org": From Rock Machine MC criminal allegations and incidents: https://www.oocities.org/wiseguywally/GiovanniCazzetta.html From Claude Vézina: https://www.oocities.org/wiseguywally/ClaudeVezina.html 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:08, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Maintaining article quality
Verifiability states that claims in any article need citations to reliable sources. A claim made with no citation should be removed. CanadianHistorian has used a number of times Jerry Langton's 2010 book Showdown as a source, most notably with the article Ontario Biker War, which I presume means that he takes it to be a reliable source. Which makes the claims made in his edit summaries that Langton's book is not reliable based on what he has "heard" all the more puzzling. Is Langton only reliable when he writes things that CH approves of? Langton states quite clearly that the criminal organisation that existed in Quebec between 1986 to 2001 is not the same one that has founded in Manitoba and Ontario in 2008. There is no straight line of continuity here. The current group is using the name of the former group, and that is all about it. It is really unlikely that members of a mainly French-Canadian Quebecoise group would relocate to Ontario and Manitoba, instead of their home province of Quebec to restart the Rock Machine. There are a number of problems with this article, such as the claim it was a criminal organisation, but that it is not at present a criminal organsation, having only members who commit crimes on their own. The claim that there is a straight line of continuity is impossible to square with the claim that the group at present is not a criminal organsiation. It can be one or the other, but not both at the same time. CanadianHistorian has made claims in this article about "research" proving that there was a straight line. But whose "research"? What books and articles say this? So far I can see no citations to support of these claims, and as such I will revert back to my version. If someone could find a RS saying otherwise, please bring it in. --A.S. Brown (talk) 03:26, 25 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Langton or any of these Authors of a lot of these books are not reliable sources. They make speculative claims, stereotype, write personal opinions & ideologies expressed as factual information.
 * Langton stating" "quite clearly" that the 86-01 RM & 08 RM are not the same" is perfect example of these Authors/ Sources hearing something police put out on the local news or read in a article & formed their own version of their story. This misconception comes from a statement made by Attorney, Ed Rice, in Sept 2008 while representing 2 RM members from Australia that were detained at the airport facing extradition during a immigration hearing. He said the new RM will be nothing like the one Canadians feared so much & will simply be a group of motorcycle enthusiast. People have twisted statements like this only in their efforts to attempt to discredit the club & its members themselves.
 * The "straight line continuity can be found even within the sections of this article along with its external links to archives. Simple - 2000 RM members choose between patching over to Hells Angels or Bandidos - remaining RM membership patch over becoming Bandidos in 2001 - 2002 many rcmp raids targeting original rm members within the new Canadian Bandidos locking away almost all original RM & HA membership in the territory - 2005 Shedden Massacre - 2006 Shedden incident reveals Bandidos commit same atrocity that created them following the 1985 Sherbrooke Quarry incident, resulting in the RM members within the Bandido's to return to and reopen the Rock Machine in 2007 & began patching over their Bandido brothers or dispersing all Bandidos Canada chapters to this day - all RM & Bandidos behind bars returned to RM upon release - RM went international using their connections to open chapters world wide. in conclusion 1986 - 2001 - RM patched over to Bandidos - 2007 Bandidos along side their original RM members patch back over to RM - 2008/ 2009 Membership starts returning home from prison - 2009-Present International Membership still has members that were in the war, members that were Bandidos & the leadership still in place within the International Nomads & appointed by the Last Real Canadian International President Critical J & VP Jean Francis Emard. All this information is within these articles, books, website & archives listed within. I believe the question of "straight line continuity" is blatantly evident. There is only One(1) Real Rock Machine MC not 2 different versions (old & new) using a trademark protected patch. Don't be consumed with discrediting the legitimacy of the organization existence today that you refuse to accept the facts available to you when the only thing that you can't seem to wrap your head around is how can someone or something evolve & adapt or make positive changes within themselves to become a better, maybe more modern day version of themselves today than they were in the 1980's/ 1990's. 30+ years ago & a lot of loss, hard lessons & acceptance of change makes all things adapt in order to grow. Therefore a organization that was involved in things they did in the past that will evolve with the times to survive & it becomes part of their history & the same organization today makes enough legal money to support itself there is no need to be involved in criminal endeavors whatsoever. Clearly they very much could once have been considered a criminal organization & today just a club not involved in anything at all & just want to be left alone. Respectfully ROCK GOTTI1813 (talk) 11:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * also beyond a journalist speculations & personal thoughts he uses to create a narrative he believes sounds legitimate enough to sell the stories. These articles & books are written with bias & political influence involved.
 * Only Original Rock Machine Members could have put the patches back on & reopened its old chapters. People seem to miss the fact that all the Original Canada Bandidos were all RM only those that came in over A 3 YR period were not. ROCK GOTTI1813 (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2023

 * 1) Change === Arrest of Cazzetta and start of tensions to === Arrest of Cazzetta and start of tensions === to restore the broken header. (I find it amusing that AWB, in the last edit someone did with it, found a number of typos and missing non-breaking spaces but somehow didn't pick up on the fact that an entire header was broken.)
 * 2) Remove the wikilink around WolfSSChanze Faction (giving just WolfSSChanze Faction), as currently the wikilink links to this article itself and that specified header no longer exists within it. (The closest alternative would be changing the link to #Other chapters (115), but that isn't specific to the WolfSSChanze gang itself, and the fact that the current number of chapters is in the subheading is just asking for the redirect to get broken again.) (Also, please remove the corresponding "Broken anchor" banner from the talk page after you do this.)
 * 3) Why is the list of issues with the article on the talk page as opposed to the actual article? Those messages are just as much warnings for the readers as they are for the editors, and if it makes the page look bad, the solution to that is to fix the page (as a couple of you already look to be doing) as opposed to hiding the warnings on a page that 95% of the page's readers will never see and probably don't even know exist. (Or to put this in a "Change X to Y" format: move the Multiple Issues banner at the top of this page to the actual article.) 2603:8001:4542:28FB:2CCD:29ED:DB69:E997 (talk) 07:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  15:26, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Members
Sonny May David Robson 70.24.26.166 (talk) 23:01, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Reboot
You are wrong the reboot was in fact ex Bandidos and few old RM. I know I was there !! For both 24.222.129.2 (talk) 03:09, 16 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Who is this? PB? SM? JF?.....
 * He is correct. In 2007 The same Rock Machine Members that patched over to Bandidos are the same members who put there old vest back on & reopened the old chapters across the country. Following the outcome of the Shedden Massacre the Original RM members reopened the club & quickly grew as Bandido chapters & disgruntled Mongols started patching over. ROCK GOTTI1813 (talk) 09:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)